Is Guitar mass okay

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Many years ago at a church we used to attend, we had an elderly organist who would occasionally slip up and end with what sounded like a riff from House of the Rising Sun. I am sure it wasn’t her intent( she had probably never heard the song). I think her dexterity was a little challenged as she got older. It would raise a few eyebrows though.
 
VanitasVanitatum said:
It’s too expensive to be used in average parishes, so intellectual assent is the most that can be acredited. If you want you can start a fundraiser and learn how to play the organ. An electric organ might be substantially cheaper, but there’s no way a pipe organ will become widespread.
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Come, now. There is a middle ground between “nice thought but that’s about all it is” and “every church should buy one now.”
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Also, Palestrina is a composer of sacred polyphony, which is considered one of the greatest forms of Catholic music.
Why do people keep insisting that music at Mass is a matter of taste and preference? That is just false.
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I accompany (during rehearsals) an independent Catholic school that teaches Latin from K through 12th grade, attends the Latin Mass and keeps the traditional Catholic calendar of feast days and solemnities, prays the Rosary daily in Latin–you get the idea. The families are delightful and the children and teens are so wonderful to play for.

And these teens KNOW how to read music–it is taught to them while they are young, and they can sight read a score and sing Bach, Mozart, etc.

But…we met our match when we tried Palestrina! I tried to accompany during rehearsal, but even though I have over 50 years of accompanying experience, I simply could not hit all the notes in the Palestrina score–many of his harmonies are quite unexpected.

And the teens–well, they tried and tried, and tried again and again to learn their Palestrina piece.

Eventually it was shelved. It just wasn’t working out for us.

What I’m saying is that if these talented and devoted teenagers and their teachers could not manage to sing a Palestrina piece, I can’t imagine regular everyday Catholics-in-the-pews, or even the typical volunteer Catholic choir, managing Palestrina.

That composer wrote some durn difficult pieces! :crazy_face:
 
It’s too pricy for there to be a middleground and without the instrument there’s no other way to give it esteem.
Its sounds more like a luxury than something for church.
 
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VanitasVanitatum said:
It’s too pricy for there to be a middleground and without the instrument there’s no other way to give it esteem.
Its sounds more like a luxury than something for church.
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Well, in a nation such as the US, where the laity routinely surround themselves with luxuries unheard of in prior ages, it is a bit disingenuous to say that it is not economically feasible to put a pipe organ in a church, where it will edify the poorest as much as the richest.

We all remember who objected to the expense represented by the broken alabaster jar.

I’m not saying every church can afford it. I’m saying that a lot of us certainly can.
 
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I wouldn’t put my hopes on the laity, but speaking of the past, they also had lavish music services too, particulary in Italy where Catholicism was strong, though it likely wouldn’t be allowed today.
 
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Last year in Ontario you could buy one off Craigslist for 20K. Ninety year old Cassavant that needed to be dismantled and moved (15K), then reassembled and retuned (40K). Imagine what a new one would cost.

Not to mention that trained organists are as rare as hens’ teeth outside of big cities.
 
Phemie said:
Last year in Ontario you could buy one off Craigslist for 20K. Ninety year old Cassavant that needed to be dismantled and moved (15K), then reassembled and retuned (40K). Imagine what a new one would cost.

Not to mention that trained organists are as rare as hens’ teeth outside of big cities.
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How do you really know that?
You’d be surprised the way that musicians come running when you have some cash on offer.
 
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VanitasVanitatum said:
A lack of musicians is sort of overlooked too.
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This is an unintended side effect of recorded music, I think. There was a time when it was either live music or nothing, and that was a time when far more people learned how to play an instrument, and play to accompany a singer or singers.
 
I think it can work as a hobby, it might not be super professional, but it should be adequate for Mass. As long as there is an interest and time, it can be done, though an organ being fixed and owned by the parish will present more of a difficulty than portable instruments.
 
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I remember a time when you could find a pump organ in many older homes in my little village. Now you rarely even find a piano.

I grew up in a home with a piano and an accordion. Mom played both by ear, my brothers learned to play the piano the same way, the younger one even composed a few of his own pieces. Unfortunately, although I inherited my love of music from both parents, I inherited my father’s lack of musical ability.

Rarely was there a gathering in our home that didn’t end up around the piano for a singalong. All my relatives had pianos too and the same occurred in their homes. Today I just don’t see pianos in most homes anymore. If singing breaks out at parties it’s usually accompanied by guitars.
 
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I’m guessing very few Churches then had organs, and that the bulk of funds came not from the poor but from the rich. This might apply not only to organs but to large, magnificent Churches, land for seminaries, etc.

Given that, I’m guessing that it’s not being done today because the rich and Church organizations with large sums of money invested in stocks, etc., are not donating or providing enough funds, and not just for organs but even for Churches and more priests.
 
I have read that nobles and even rich clergy would be patrons of the arts so it makes sense that they would be the main income for this.
 
thistle said:
No but the Church does have teachings as to preferences, at least as concerned an organ.
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tafan2 said:
No when I said it was the Church’s teaching that the organ was preferred ( my interpretation of the wording) you took exception to that.
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My objection has been to the word teaching. It is NOT a Church teaching.
A suggestion, recommendation, preference is not a teaching.
We are bound by teachings. We are not bound by what instruments to use at Mass.
 
There’s a Sunday evening mass at the parish where my kids attend school, and the choir has 3 guitars that play different parts together…I really like it! Honestly the only thing that I think is irreverent is drums. And even that is just my personal taste.
 
PetraG said:
It is the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy! ! What liturgical document could be more authoritative than that?
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Let me repeat what I already keep saying and that is the Church does not have a teaching about what musical instruments are used at Mass.
As I said in the other post preferences, suggestions, recommendations are not teachings.
We are bound by by infallible and non-infallible teachings. We are not bound over a preference for an organ to be used at Mass.

I should have added that the Bishop is the competent territorial ecclesiastical authority and he has the say in what musical instruments can be used at Mass. He may even leave that to the parish priests to decide.
 
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Yes! The priest who married us told a constantly griping parishioner to do exactly that.

And ya’ know what? He was so shocked that he realized his error and repented. They became good friends.

I know, I know - NOT the same situation, but read me out (since you cannot hear me):
  1. All who dislike something about this, that or the other thing should take it up with Father.
  2. It might be personal preference and not a liturgical abuse - given particular circumstances. Would John Michael Talbot’s singing and guitar playing be cause for revolt? Somehow, I don’t think so.
  3. If Father, parish council etc. are no help, then:
  4. How many today are unfamiliar with the spiritual works of mercy. Bearing injustice with patience (i.e. without complaint) is a spiritual work of mercy!
  5. Our rotten culture leads us to complain much, pray little. Which Saint ever advised this?
  6. None of them.
  7. Who gives mercy receives mercy.
 
Phemie said:
If singing breaks out at parties it’s usually accompanied by guitars.
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If singing breaks out at your home parties, you’re lucky. (Especially if you have children there and no one needs a designated driver…)
 
We all want the classic Hammond Organ - just like our Lord played at the last supper! What ? That was not invented for several hundsed years? Oh. OK. But, what if there was flute, harp or lyre?

It seems to be related to time, place and culture.

If we do not like (insert pet peeve here) mass, then we can make it our penance or leave. That is a choice. We do very little penance these days.

Not complicated at all.
 
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