Is guitar music OK at Mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter bjford
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bjford

Guest
Please forgive me if I sound negative or cynical, but I’m just trying to find the truth of this matter. I tried searching this post, but nobody reallly got to the heart of the matter from what I’ve read.

I have a question about music at mass. Recently, I was at a Charismatic Questions and Answers meeting, and one person asked if Praise and Worship was acceptable at mass. The canon lawyer said that it was fine. Now, the US Bishops wrote on a footnote of the 1975 Sacramentary that they have refrained from singling out any instruments from the liturgy, referencing Sacrosanctum Concilium (I believe its the footnote to sec. 274 in the GIRM Appendix, titled “Musical Instruments”). However, Sacrosanctum Concilium says:

…But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

And its follow-up encyclical, Musicam Sacram, says:

*63. In permitting and using musical instruments, the culture and traditions of individual peoples must be taken into account. However, those instruments which are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only, are to be altogether prohibited from every liturgical celebration and from popular devotions.
*

And before all of this, Pope Pius’ XII encyclical Sacrae Musicae says:

*42. It must be holy. It must not allow within itself anything that savors of the profane nor allow any such thing to slip into the melodies in which it is expressed. …
  1. Besides the organ, other instruments can be called upon to give great help in attaining the lofty purpose of sacred music, so long as they play nothing profane nothing clamorous or strident and nothing at variance with the sacred services or the dignity of the place. Among these the violin and other musical instruments that use the bow are outstanding because, when they are played by themselves or with other stringed instruments or with the organ, they express the joyous and sad sentiments of the soul with an indescribable power. Moreover, in the encyclical Mediator Dei, We Ourselves gave detailed and clear regulations concerning the musical modes that are to be admitted into the worship of the Catholic religion.
Now, I know that Guitar music, along with drums, etc. is generally considered to be a secular instrument. Wouldn’t that render it as not suitable for the liturgy?

Second, if you say that it is suitable because guitar now is seen in the liturgy, and considered by some to also be a liturgical instrument, wouldn’t this be based on disobedience, since after Musicam Sacram and Vatican II, people started playing popular tunes at mass, when guitar was not considered to be a secular instrument?

Third, if you say that guitar music isn’t appropriate for the liturgy, does that mean the US bishops are being disobedient?

Thanks!
 
Match, meet gasoline. 😃

Yes, the guitar is unquestionably a secular instrument in this country, with secular connotations and associations. That applies even moreso for the electric guitar.

And yes, through some mysterious and invisible process that nobody has ever explained, it has been (de facto if not de jure) “made” into a sacred instrument. No doubt the “spirit of Vatican II” was involved in that transformation.

It is also, BTW, a very poor instrument for use in leading congregational singing.

Nobody ever said it had to make sense. 🙂
 
Yes, guitar music is allowed at Mass. I don’t care for it, but it is clearly OK.

The US Bishops are not being disobedient.

Peace

Tim
 
Seems to be very popular in Spanish liturgies here in the US.
 
The guitar is allowable. And while the organ is given pride of place it is not a “sacred” instrument. It was used in the secular world before its use in the church
 
Secular instruments are not forbbiden, only those instruments that are secularonly. This allows for a culture to incorporate music for worship appropriate for them. I grew up hearing guitars used in Church, and not just Catholic Church. Flip to any Christian radio station and you will hear guitars used. They have not been restricted to secular use for decades.

The better question to ask is are they prudent in a particular parish at a particular Mass.
 
I think aucoustic guitars are fine (and they’re used at my parish), but amplified, electric guitars are over the top. Too much like a rock concert to me.

My parish also has had flute, violin, and cello accompanists at times.
 
I don’t think they contribute to creating a holy and sacred mood within the church. I prefer Gregorian Chant and other traditional instruments such as the organ.

They are allowed, but I think it lowers the tone of the Mass. We must remember that the Mass is a Sacrifice and not a music concert.
 
the acoustic guitar secular? No way. My mother is choir director for the spanish mass at our parish and we have two violins,the piano and three guitars (she’s also the lead guitar). Unfortunately in the english mass they use electric bass and drums (horrible,horrible) the difference in the music is night and day, with the english mass sounding just awful, almost protestant sounding.
Now it may be cultural for us hispanics to incorporate the guitar into the liturgy but in no way is it disrespectful to the liturgy.Besides the acoustic guitar is a very old instrument with plenty of classical pieces made for it. Sorry but the acoustic guitar,played classically,is in no way offensive to the liturgy.

P.S- If we coud get a choir to sing chant like Hortus Musicus…the guitars are out the window!!!😃
 
Classical guitar music --and competent musicians–are wonderful.

There are many people who not only play well, in the sacred sense, but choose pieces which are likewise well adapted to sacred music.

And there are organists who play like they’re doing the 7th inning stretch at the ballpark, or ‘dirge’ everything.

That being said, there may be a case made that in the last 30 years or so, the organ was tossed aside in favor of the more ‘hip’, keyboard and/or guitars, and the musicians may have blurred the line between sacred and profane, in many parishes. I’ve heard more than a few --guitar AND keyboard–in my time.

But I have also heard reverent, beautiful ‘guitar’ playing, as well as organ playing.

Let’s hope that more people will feel a calling that involves much more practice, and work, and a rediscovery of the ‘sacred’ in liturgy, so that we all have the chance to go to our church and, whether we hear guitars, keyboards, organs, voices, etc., it will all be to the greater glory of GOD, with the best effort possible.
 
Southsider433 said:
P.S- If we coud get a choir to sing chant like Hortus Musicus…the guitars are out the window!!!😃
Click to expand...
This is a point that dictates to many parishes which way we have to go. My parish is predominantly hispanic. There is not one organist among the 1000 families. There is not one person who even plays piano that has ever let it be known. You can’t use what you don’t have.
 
As a minister of music for many years I can tell you that any instrument which enhances the participation of the laity is not only o.k it is desired. Too many times I have been at Mass where people do not fulfill their obligation to assist at Mass by fully participating. I have led the music with organ, piano, guitar and with no instrument other than the one God gave me! The goal is to have everyone participate in all the responses and hymns.
hope this helps! :harp: :harp:
 
Of course guitar music is ok in Mass. If it wasn’t ok there would be a huge amount of parishes being very unorthodox. 🙂

It can be very beautiful and reverent.
 
pnewton said:
This is a point that dictates to many parishes which way we have to go. My parish is predominantly hispanic. There is not one organist among the 1000 families. There is not one person who even plays piano that has ever let it be known. You can’t use what you don’t have.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is the deeper “problem” for lack of a better word. I live in a urban neighborhood our parish is 60/40 hispanic/black. Our choirs are made up of people that are barely be able to carry a tune, but you know what…they are participating, they are taking an active role in the liturgy and that is O.K 👍
 
Hello,

Let me start off first saying that I am not a fan of guitar music at a Mass. I don’t condemn it, but I don’t like it.

Any instrument used at Mass must be fitting for the sacredness of the Mass. As others have noted, an electric guitar almost certainly doesn’t fit that bill. An acoustic guitar could, but I think it would be most acceptable only as a part of a larger orchestra type ensemble.
bjford said:
The canon lawyer said that it was fine. Now, the US Bishops wrote on a footnote of the 1975 Sacramentary that they have refrained from singling out any instruments from the liturgy, referencing Sacrosanctum Concilium (I believe its the footnote to sec. 274 in the GIRM Appendix, titled “Musical Instruments”). However, Sacrosanctum Concilium says:

…But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.
Click to expand...
Yes, the use of instruments is something that is within the competence of the local Bishop. But according to Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Bishop must have knowledge and give consent to the use of other non-organ instruments. The canon lawyer said that the Bishops have been silent. So in that interpretation, unless the Bishop actively says guitars in my diocese are o.k. then they probably shouldn’t be used. And it wouldn’t be proper to use the excuse that the Bishop hasn’t said no so it must be o.k.
 
It’s not cultural for Hispanics to use guitar in the liturgy. Yes, hispanics use guitar for popular song historically, but up until 40 years ago, they were chanting Gregorian chant like everybody else. In addition, some of the greatest Baroque composers came from places like Mexico, Bolivia, Brazil, and Chile.

How can somebody say that drums and electric guitars are wrong but acoustic guitar is OK? What if somebody grew up with electric guitars and drums? To them, its a sacred instrument. I suppose my question is, what is the definition of an instrument “Generally considered to be secular”?
 
Guitars can produce beautiful music in the proper hands. Ay, there’s the rub!
Tradition says that “Silent Night” was first accompanied by a guitar because the organ in a little Austrian town’s church was inoperable. Daresay this Christmas classic has been translated into every tongue on earth, and still sounds just fine with a well-played guitar.
 
pnewton said:
Secular instruments are not forbbiden, only those instruments that are secularonly.…
Click to expand...
How does one define what secular only means? One could logically assert that any instrument’s use for sacred purposes could define that instrument as being not secular only.
 
Leopard said:
How does one define what secular only means? One could logically assert that any instrument’s use for sacred purposes could define that instrument as being not secular only.
Click to expand...
😃 Isn’t that the rub? Once they are used in Mass on a regular basis, they are no longer only secular instruments. Ah well, if they are ever proscribed for Mass, we will just go to a silent Mass or acapella for all Masses.
 
I live for the day when I never hear another guitar at Mass.

I likewise live for the day when I never hear another composition from Glory and Praise or Gather at Mass.

“OCP”, you know, stands for “Old Countercultural Pap.” 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top