Is hand holding during the Our Father practiced outside the United States?

[MarkInOregon]

I keep hearing these stories but my question is why not wait until the exchange of peace to hold or shake hands, when it is actually encouraged? It’s only a minute later.

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:5) I believe the Pater Noster is reserved SOLELY for God and full attention is required whether you wish to pray the words or not. When you’re touching someone you have to be conscious of that touch, I would think, taking some of that attention away from God.

I think there is a problem if that simple act takes away ones attention from God–in a sense attention to others is attention to God–Christ is pretty clear about that–what we do to others we do to him. Further when one is so bothered by others holding hands during the Our Father–their focus is obviously not totally on God to begin with–its on what others around them are doing so they were not giving their full attention to God anyway…

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

The 1 % are not invading anyone’s right to do as they please. However, if the 99 % force themselves on the 1 %, then they are in violation of the command to love one’s neighbor…

Just to be clear we don’t have the right to do what we please at Mass–we are required to sit, stand and kneel at the appropriate times as well as offer the appropriate responses and prayers, and one could just as easily make the claim that when your neighbor offers their hand to you and you refuse to take it then you are in violation of the command to love your neighbor and that is why while I don’t offer my hand I never refuse to take a hand offered to me–after all it’s not about me–it is about God and I do not wish to be a stumbling block to someone else.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Jon_S_1]

Just to be clear we don’t have the right to do what we please at Mass–we are required to sit, stand and kneel at the appropriate times as well as offer the appropriate responses and prayers, and one could just as easily make the claim that when your neighbor offers their hand to you and you refuse to take it then you are in violation of the command to love your neighbor and that is why while I don’t offer my hand I never refuse to take a hand offered to me–after all it’s not about me–it is about God and I do not wish to be a stumbling block to someone else.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[ProVobis]

Further when one is so bothered by others holding hands during the Our Father–their focus is obviously not totally on God to begin with–its on what others around them are doing so they were not giving their full attention to God anyway…

Fair point. That’s why introverted me tends to avoid crowded OF Masses, which tend to be distracting in a lot of other ways.

 

[dconklin]

Definitely not in Ireland.
When I met my husband’s family, my effort to hold hands or a kiss at sign of peace was viewed as fairly scandalous. I imagine they perceived me as one of those crazy American Catholic tourists.
I got a lot of disdainful stares.

I don’t remember the hand holding (it was almost 30 years ago), but I was that American tourist in Singapore shaking hands at the kiss of peace. Their custom was bowing.

 

[Irishgal49]

A friend once got visible upset that I didn’t hold her hand. I fold my hands and look down to hopefully send the signal that I’m not up for holding hands. But when it’s clearly expected like one time when a woman poked me, I comply. I don’t like holding hands but it’s much worse to make others feel rejected. Likewise during the Sign of Peace, I nod or wave and only shake hands when a hand is offered.

This is my issue. I just say, “No thank you” close my eyes and fold my hands. I have germ issues (yes I’m OCD) and I hate that people are pressured into doing things you don’t want to do.

 

[Brendan_64]

They just should not condemn the 90% because of their phobia, not should they deem it divisive since they are welcome to participate and choose not to.

But it isn’t the 90% who are doing it. We are the universal Church. Those who hold hands during the Our Father at Mass represent a very small minority of the Church.

Then let’s do it when the rubrics dictate it, at the exchange of peace.

I agree.

We are a universal Church and as such we ought to act synchronically with the rest of the Church. We ought to be worshipping in the same fashion whether we are in the USA, the UK, Kenya or Brazil. We should act in accordance to the rubrics and not adapt things to suit the way we ‘feel’. Next we’ll have members of the congregation holding their hands up to Heaven during the Eucharistic Prayer to feel the power of the Spirit.

 

[liturgyluver]

We should act in accordance to the rubrics and not adapt things to suit the way we ‘feel’. Next we’ll have members of the congregation holding their hands up to Heaven during the Eucharistic Prayer to feel the power of the Spirit.

I agree with you, and I hesitate to say this but another thing that some Amercians do is a kind of whoosh with the hands at the exclamation of “And with your spirit” at the start of the Eucharistic Prayer.

 

[ProVobis]

The Apostles kissed the Lord.

I hate it when they bring this up. So did Judas.

The Brits don’t even allow it at the Royal Weddings. And I say good for them!

 

[frizzgrig]

I keep hearing these stories but my question is why not wait until the exchange of peace to hold or shake hands, when it is actually encouraged? It’s only a minute later.

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:5) I believe the Pater Noster is reserved SOLELY for God and full attention is required whether you wish to pray the words or not. When you’re touching someone you have to be conscious of that touch, I would think, taking some of that attention away from God.

:bigyikes: Then you had best stop breathing lest you smell the perfume or incense and become distracted :bigyikes:. (Oh, wait, you have to breathe to be able to say the words.) Better close your eyes lest you become distracted by some movement :bigyikes:. They better make sure the windows are all closed and the heat or air conditioning (if present) are off so you don’t feel a draft and become distracted :bigyikes:. NO, the heat/AC needs to be on so you are not distracted because you are too cold/hot :bigyikes:. Better put in ear plugs first too so you don’t hear anything and get distracted :bigyikes:.

Seriously, do you honestly believe God - who sent his only Son into the world to show us how much He loves us - objects to us joining hands (an external symbol of unity) and hearts (internal) to offer Him praise and thanksgiving?

For the OP, I can only say some parishes do, some don’t, and some do it half way.

 

[Brendan_64]

Seriously, do you honestly believe God - who sent his only Son into the world to show us how much He loves us - objects to us joining hands (an external symbol of unity) and hearts (internal) to offer Him praise and thanksgiving?

So let’s just make it up as we go along then. Forget the rubrics, forget that we are part of a universal Church worshipping together as one, if it feels good then we should just do it, it’s the modern way afterall for today’s People of God. Protestants have been adapting things for many years, why shouldn’t we do likewise? Why do we need stuffy old things like rubrics anyway?

 

[Jon_S_1]

So let’s just make it up as we go along then. Forget the rubrics, forget that we are part of a universal Church worshipping together as one, if it feels good then we should just do it, it’s the modern way afterall for today’s People of God. Protestants have been adapting things for many years, why shouldn’t we do likewise? Why do we need stuffy old things like rubrics anyway?

This is ridiculous!!!

All of you!!!

You are just as guilty of “not following the rubrics”

SINCE THE RUBRIC HAS NOTHING TO FOLLOW!!!

Let people live their lives !

I am petitioning the Vatican to convert all the “cry rooms” and side chapels to be reserved for

“people with nothing better to do than complain about the people around them”

It can be the “hands free” zone

 

[acacia12]

All of you!!!

Let people live their lives !

I am petitioning the Vatican to convert all the “cry rooms” and side chapels to be reserved for

“grumpy people with nothing better to do than complain about the people around them”

Come on now… there is no need to be uncharitable.

 

[CathConvert602]

Someone mentioned kissing Good Lord, dragging the Liturgy down this is not what the Liturgical Commission intended neither did it sanction holding hands and raising them up, do these people think they are at a Non Catholic Event/A Party of sorts, we are at Mass not for ourselves but to give glory to God, its not about “Me” and I am having a good time.
Holding hands is a Liturgical Abuse, Praise the Lord they don’t do this in England/Ireland when I go to Mass, to be quite honest if someone try to grab my hand, I would grab it back while saying the Our Father. I think the Bishop should be informed so the priests can say something from the Pulpit, I mean to day its holding hands at the Our Father, to morrow its kissing instead of shaking hands giving the sign of Peace, and then who knows what nut will invent more Liturgical Abuse while trying to get the Original Version of THE MASS in the Novus Ordo.

Shudder at the thoughts of what I have just read.

In Latino culture it’s common to kiss on the cheek. It’s a greeting among family… and as far as I see it, it’s a true sign of reconciliation with our bretheren, fellow parisioners; more so than a handshake.

As for the holding hands during the Our Father, it’s a little too EvangelicalAssemblies of God flavored for my taste. I get the idea that it is supposed to symbolize us joining as one body (the Church) as was explained by our RCIA director, but not my cup of tea.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Fair point. That’s why introverted me tends to avoid crowded OF Masses, which tend to be distracting in a lot of other ways.

Yes, It does take a lot of practice, effort, training–not sure what the right word is–to learn to focus without being distracted. I too have been introverted most of my life and over the past few years have taken great pains to be less so – it is something I feel Christ has called me to. It has definitely pulled me out of my comfort zone, but then I don’t think Christ calls us to a comfortable life but rather to take up our cross and follow him doing the Fathers will – and that is all I can try to do – no matter how feeble my attempts are.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Bulbasaur05]

Its an Asian thing for sure.

 

[GangGreen]

When you allow the Mass to be turned to the people these are things that occur.

Honestly, if you’re going to allow a sign of peace among the people, then I see no reason why people can’t give each other a kiss on the cheek (it was originally a kiss of peace after all). Maybe it’s because I’m Italian and it’s normal for me. Why can’t a man give his wife a kiss on the lips? The person who he is joined together through the Sacrament of Marriage. It’s not like they’re making out. Is a kiss between spouses something that creates scandal?

The holding/raising hands at the Our Father is just something I can’t stand. I don’t see a reason for it. Why don’t people hold hands during the Gloria or the Sanctus or the Agnus Dei? They specifically do this for the Our Father like holding hands adds something to the prayer.

I’m personally not a fan of the sign of peace as it is and don’t like the hand holding during the Our Father. The priest just consecrated the Eucharist. Jesus Christ is before us Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity and the first thing we do is take the focus away from that and onto the community. I’m not a fan of that. If they’re going to include it, I actually like how it was done in the Early Church… prior to the Canon. From what I understand in the past, the Kiss Of Peace was much less involved than it is now.

 

[Millie123]

So let’s just make it up as we go along then. Forget the rubrics, forget that we are part of a universal Church worshipping together as one, if it feels good then we should just do it, it’s the modern way afterall for today’s People of God. Protestants have been adapting things for many years, why shouldn’t we do likewise? Why do we need stuffy old things like rubrics anyway?

The rubrics are not clear in this part of the mass as to what the proper position is for the laity to take when celebrating mass…

It seems that many people think that the correct position for us to take during the Our Father is to stand with hands folded together in prayer. The thing is that this is not what is said in the GIRM, however, interestingly the GIRM does prescribe parts of the mass in which this position is dictated.

Let me give you a few examples from the GIRM;
127. The Priest then calls upon the people to pray, saying, WITH HANDS JOINED, Let us pray. All pray silently with the Priest for a brief time. Then the Priest, with hands extended, says the Collect, at the end of which the people acclaim, Amen.

1. At the ambo, the Priest opens the book and, WITH HANDS JOINED, says, The Lord be with you, to which the people reply, And with your spirit. Then he says, A reading from the holy Gospel, making the Sign of the Cross with his thumb on the book and on his forehead, mouth, and breast, which everyone else does as well.
2. After the recitation of the Symbol or Creed, the Priest, standing at the chair WITH HIS HANDS JOINED, by means of a brief address calls upon the faithful to participate in the Universal Prayer.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/general-instruction-of-the-roman-missal/girm-chapter-4.cfm

I have other examples but 3 is enough for now. All throughout the GIRM, it has clear and precise instructions about proper hand positions for both the priest and laity to take. However, at the time of the Our Father there is not a single instruction for the laity hands…it is not in the rubrics.
So my question is this…Why is standing with your hands joined together in prayer during the Our Father the right position to take? This position is dictated in other parts of the mass, but not at this part. It is not in the rubrics for the laity.
How is holding your own hands right, if it is not in the rubrics, But holding your neighbors hand wrong…because it is also not in the rubrics?
What is the clear and precise position for the laity to take according to the rubrics?

 

[GangGreen]

One of my big issues with the OF is the fact that the rubrics aren’t that strict. This is what causes many of the issues that we see all over. Just because the rubrics don’t tell you exactly what to do and how to do it doesn’t mean that you can make up your own thing to do.

I guess if I want to, I could throw my hands in the air and wave them like I just don’t care during the Our Father. The rubrics don’t say I can’t do that. That would sound ridiculous to do, but what if everyone in a certain culture started doing that, would it be OK?

To me the proper “position” is one that shows reverence and focuses completely on God.

 

[pnewton]

But it isn’t the 90% who are doing it.

I believe that comment was made on a parish level. The idea is to express unity within a parish. I do not agree, though, as the idea of unity on this level is too close to proscribing the posture. We do not need to regiment the people of God, as Cardinal Arinze said. Pressure should never be brought to bear to assume any posture that is not proscribed.

I agree.

. We should act in accordance to the rubrics and not adapt things to suit the way we ‘feel’…

This is just rewording the issue. A person who holds hands can be acting 100% in accordance to all the rubrics. The argument is whether adding something (person by person) is allowable, be it holding hands, or folding hands in prayer.