Is hand holding during the Our Father practiced outside the United States?

[Hoosier_Daddy]

The funny thing is one CAN find comments about this directly from people that are better positioned and informed than any of us Card. Arinze has addressed this specific issue many times. Where are all the major theologians or liturgists who have defended this practice?

I’ll wait.

 

[ProVobis]

Let me give you a few examples from the GIRM;
127. The Priest then calls upon the people to pray, saying, WITH HANDS JOINED, Let us pray. All pray silently with the Priest for a brief time. Then the Priest, with hands extended, says the Collect, at the end of which the people acclaim, Amen.

1. At the ambo, the Priest opens the book and, WITH HANDS JOINED, says, The Lord be with you, to which the people reply, And with your spirit. Then he says, A reading from the holy Gospel, making the Sign of the Cross with his thumb on the book and on his forehead, mouth, and breast, which everyone else does as well.
2. After the recitation of the Symbol or Creed, the Priest, standing at the chair WITH HIS HANDS JOINED, by means of a brief address calls upon the faithful to participate in the Universal Prayer.

All these actions involve those of the priest. Don’t the laity have the right of holding a handmissal or translator or something equivalent? As well, of course, as keeping their hands joined?

 

[ProVobis]

Seriously, do you honestly believe God - who sent his only Son into the world to show us how much He loves us - objects to us joining hands (an external symbol of unity) and hearts (internal) to offer Him praise and thanksgiving?

Do you really need it though? It’s interesting to me that we as a society seem to give more respect/attention (hands on our hearts, etc.) to the flag at the playing of our national anthem than giving full attention to God within our church.

 

[Jon_S_1]

One of my big issues with the OF is the fact that the rubrics aren’t that strict. This is what causes many of the issues that we see all over. Just because the rubrics don’t tell you exactly what to do and how to do it doesn’t mean that you can make up your own thing to do.

I guess if I want to, I could throw my hands in the air and wave them like I just don’t care during the Our Father. The rubrics don’t say I can’t do that. That would sound ridiculous to do, but what if everyone in a certain culture started doing that, would it be OK?

To me the proper “position” is one that shows reverence and focuses completely on God.

Thanks for making me laugh in this distressing thread!

 

[OraLabora]

To me the proper “position” is one that shows reverence and focuses completely on God.

I’m guessing by the amount of hand wringing and tsk-tsking going on about who does or doesn’t do what one is supposed to or not supposed to do, that very many people are indeed not focusing completely and reverently on God during Mass…

Could it be that God moves us in as many ways as there are personalities?

Just food for thought though I myself lie on the side that things should be done with decorum and the liturgy is not something to be trifled with. But in the Benedictine spirit I think it behooves us to listen to our brethren who think differently than we do, no matter how uncomfortable it make us sometimes feel (myself included… I have to sometimes overcome very strong aversions to tune out my distaste and genuinely and respectfully listen to other points of view).

 

[acacia12]

.

I guess if I want to, I could throw my hands in the air
youtube.com/watch?v=mVZBGnvMzo4

.

 

[Millie123]

The funny thing is one CAN find comments about this directly from people that are better positioned and informed than any of us Card. Arinze has addressed this specific issue many times. Where are all the major theologians or liturgists who have defended this practice?

I’ll wait.

I just spent some time looking up Cardinal Arinze’s comments about this issue. I’ll now post a you tube video for you in which he does not condemn this.

youtube.com/watch?v=Iix5v1ytwBA
Fast forward to 6:47

The question is:
“Your eminence the Our Father during mass, um Holding hands, or not holding hands, or does it matter.”

Cardinal Arinze responds:
“It is not proscribed in the book for mass. That the people will hold hands, or even that the priest will hold hands…It is not proscribed how the people will hold their hands. If they want to hold that way it is alright. If they want to hold that way it is alright. But it is not proscribed. But when a person goes then proscribing, it is too much.”

It sounds to me that Cardinal Arinze is saying that it is alright to hold hands or not hold hands. And that it should not be forced one way or another.

 

[pnewton]

To me the proper “position” is one that shows reverence and focuses completely on God.

The operative words here are “to me.” You give a great reason to focus on one’s own posture and let the neighbor focus on his. Some bow heads, some look forward. Some hold hands, some fold them and some hold the pew. It is our focus, not our hands that matters.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I just spent some time looking up Cardinal Arinze’s comments about this issue. I’ll now post a you tube video for you in which he does not condemn this.

youtube.com/watch?v=Iix5v1ytwBA
Fast forward to 6:47

The question is:
“Your eminence the Our Father during mass, um Holding hands, or not holding hands, or does it matter.”

Cardinal Arinze responds:
“It is not proscribed in the book for mass. That the people will hold hands, or even that the priest will hold hands…It is not proscribed how the people will hold their hands. If they want to hold that way it is alright. If they want to hold that way it is alright. But it is not proscribed. But when a person goes then proscribing, it is too much.”

It sounds to me that Cardinal Arinze is saying that it is alright to hold hands or not hold hands. And that it should not be forced one way or another.

He has spoken many times about this.

one of my favorites.

“the GIRM doesn’t say you cannot bring a dog to Mass, but you don’t see people doing that, do you?”

or something close to that…

 

[canis73]

I try to attend mass twice a week. Sundays I go to a quite traditional parish (almost no singing, very introspective), and Fridays I go to a charismatic church. Even though at first I did not feel entirely comfortable with what I used to perceive as show off and lack of solemnity, I found it to be an enriching experience for myself to try to understand and not judge those parishioners. At least in my country, I´ve always thought of these churches as the RCC´s answer to the large amount of people becoming evangelicals (at least what we understand as evangelicals here, keep in mind that during my youth I had never run across a protestant in Argentina. Everybody was catholic until the last few decades).

I feel like I am acquiring a broader glimpse of our faith as a whole by spending that time there.

I don´t think it will ever be my cup of tea, but I feel that I now accept holding hands, raising arms and singing loudly for what they are (even though I do not do it if I can avoid it), just a different way of achieving the same results I seek.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

To me the proper “position” is one that shows reverence and focuses completely on God.

Jesus could have enabled all of us to offer the sacrifice of Mass by ourselves and to ourselves. I guess I just wonder now, if what he wanted out of the Mass is for us to focus solely on the Him during Mass, would that not have been a better route? Even the mere presence of others can distract us. I’m not trying to push a position, nor attempting to insinuate that every communal act is justified during the Mass, I’m just curious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

[LongingSoul]

Before swine flu a few years ago, Fr. used to prompt us to hold hands prior to every recital of Our Father. Just down by our sides type hand holding. I confess I hated that part so much I would hurry my family to Mass early so that we could nab the small 5 person length pew so we didn’t have to be near anyone else. My oldest son (who has Aspergers) simply refused to hold our hands at all but I would always hold the corner of his jacket and he was OK with that. But really, the lot of us is marginally autistic anyway and don’t have too great a need for human touch of that sort.

Praise be to God for swine flu. (I know. It is heartless).

Most of the Philippino members still do the raised hand hold with the person on either end having a solitary outstretched hand in the air. The 2 parishes I regularly attend have a number of retired nuns and Franciscan brothers all sitting upfront. None of them ever do the hand hold thing so I guess it was never part of their practice.

The Tongan and Samoan members who are a large community in our State always have a massive hug and kiss fest at the sign of peace although they will restrict themselves to the demure nod towards us non demonstrative types which is good, lovely and all that it is to see their abundant affection towards each other.

 

[pnewton]

He has spoken many times about this.

one of my favorites.

“the GIRM doesn’t say you cannot bring a dog to Mass, but you don’t see people doing that, do you?”

I thought that was said about dancing.

 

[aimee]

I thought that was said about dancing.

yes and no dancing

 

[otjm]

I know that IrishGal finds this post funny, but to me it sounds a little uncharitable and mean. Was this American Family visitors to your parish and perhaps unaware of the customs of your parish?
Anyways, I too have been a visitor to different parishes before and also completely messed up the communion line when it came time to receive the Blessed Sacrament. What happened was it was a parish that had 3 aisles heading towards the altar. I had actually found a spot to sit not in the back in the church but in the middle. And when it came time for communion, I had started my communion prayers that I always say, to prepare myself for the Blessed Sacrament. I thought that the communion line was pretty straightforward, except what I didn’t know is that when they reach the middle of the church, the parish is directed to go to a different line, than what I was expecting to be directed to. I had been so involved with my prayers, that I just did not pay attention to what my neighbor was doing. It was my turn to walk into the communion line and I wasn’t paying attention, I didn’t realize it was my turn to go forward. I had mistakenly delayed communion for the entire back half of the parish.
It was very embarassing, but the thought that members of that parish could still be gossiping about me today as you are gossiping about this family, it does sound a little too critical and mean.

Anyways back to hand holding, every parish that I’ve attended holds hands. The parishes I’ve attended in California, they hold hands. The parishes in Florida, they hold hands too. Also the parishes I’ve attended in Missouri. The parish I attend right now in my state in the midwest, we hold hands. I’ve never been to a parish in which we did not hold hands, Although I’m about to take a trip to Oregon, I don’t know if they hold hands there or not. When I am there I will try my best to respectful to the culture of the parish, but I can’t promise that I won’t make a mistake.

The greater majority of parishes out here seem to hold hands. Hope you can come when it is not raining.

 

[otjm]

We are a universal Church and as such we ought to act synchronically with the rest of the Church. We ought to be worshipping in the same fashion whether we are in the USA, the UK, Kenya or Brazil. We should act in accordance to the rubrics and not adapt things to suit the way we ‘feel’. Next we’ll have members of the congregation holding their hands up to Heaven during the Eucharistic Prayer to feel the power of the Spirit.

Universal does not mean uniform. The Church has always had some room for cultural issues.

 

[otjm]

So let’s just make it up as we go along then. Forget the rubrics, forget that we are part of a universal Church worshipping together as one, if it feels good then we should just do it, it’s the modern way afterall for today’s People of God. Protestants have been adapting things for many years, why shouldn’t we do likewise? Why do we need stuffy old things like rubrics anyway?

Considering there are absolutely no - nada, zip - rubrics for how to hold your hands, your point is irrelevant and over the top. We don’t need to get snippy about something that has been going on for 50 years or so, and over which Rome has chosen, through three generations of the GIRM, to not address.

 

[ProVobis]

Considering there are absolutely no - nada, zip - rubrics for how to hold your hands, your point is irrelevant and over the top. We don’t need to get snippy about something that has been going on for 50 years or so, and over which Rome has chosen, through three generations of the GIRM, to not address.

You seem to be making an assumption that everyone in the world has seen this practice since the 60’s. Maybe in the U.K. they have never seen it, or haven’t seen it until recently?

Thanks for the heads up on Oregon, though.

 

[paperwight66]

You seem to be making an assumption that everyone in the world has seen this practice since the 60’s. Maybe in the U.K. they have never seen it, or haven’t seen it until recently?

Thanks for the heads up on Oregon, though.

Quite. It is not seen over here in the UK.

 

[awsiukiewicz]

I keep my hands folded and close my eyes…no hand holding by our family…not to be mean…I just find that it detracts…haven’t we moved far enough in the Liturgy…by the way…I luv U Liturgyluvar…PAX