Is harboring repressed perversions within the unconscious sinful?

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Something I wrote 20 years ago will clue you in as to my way of looking at repression and other defence mechanisms:

DEFENSE MECHANISMS: Understanding defense mechanisms is important in our spiritual growth because they provide valuable insight into the ways in which we avoid becoming aware of the unconscious urges that cause us to sin. Defense mechanisms are well known in the field of psychology. They represent deceptive cognitive functions used to avoid emotionally charged inner conflicts. These conflicts often inflict intense, but mostly unconscious, psychic pain. They often evoke primitive drives and desires. These defenses also occur mainly at the unconscious level, and we are usually unaware of their actual activity. Our inner conflict and defense mechanisms can have many negative effects on us. For example, they can also act as powerful barriers that, on a moment notice, become erected between us and others. Largely, we become aware of these defenses, and sin itself, to the degree we become spiritually aware. However, many survive their entire life, often enduring severe abuse, without ever becoming aware of their defenses nor their sins. In a sense, we are all slaves living in shackles.-- Complete escape from these shackles is not possible during this life; but by becoming aware of the following defenses, and having received God’s grace, we can loosen them significantly.

Denial: This is a defense where we experience the impulse to sin, but we deny that it was caused by the sin already existing within us. This defense causes us to actively forget past instances where we have committed sin. It also causes us to attribute the cause of our sin to another source outside our self. We might say something like: “He made me angry.” But we should be saying something like: “My anger overwhelmed me.”
Repression: This defense is similar to denial, but instead of merely denying that sinful impulses exist within us, we repress the impulse itself. As a result, however, we also repress most of our spirituality. Repression also allows the sin to remain present in our unconscious where it often results in more extreme forms of irrational behavior. Remember, it is not until we become aware of our sin, confess it as such, and receive the grace of God, that our soul can become purified.

Projection: In a sense, there is a “fabulous magician” living within us who, by way of illusion, mentally projects our sinful thoughts and desires to appear to be the sinful motives governing the behavior of others. With this defense we think we can plainly see the sinful motives of others, but fail to see that these sinful motives are really those that reside within us.

Reaction Formation: This is a defense that involves projection, but it goes one step further in that we condemn, and are actively aggressive against, those we project our sins onto. One common example is the person who is sexually aroused by erotica, but denies or represses it by waging a hostile war against erotica, and the people anyway connected to it. Keep in mind that it is not the sins of others that we need to recognize and condemn, but those sins of our own!

Rationalization: With this defense we try to justify sinful impulses and the resulting sinful behavior to ourselves and others by using “common sense.” Here we are likely to argue that a particular sin is normal or good.
Intellectualization: This process is similar to rationalization except that we move beyond common sense by “intellectualizing” our arguments. One common method is to seek education and knowledge and use it to try and convince ourselves and others that our sin should be acceptable within society.

Sublimation: This defense often involves the transformation of socially shameful impulses, usually sexual or aggressive in nature, into socially acceptable behavior – socially acceptable behavior usually resulting in self-pride. A “successful” businessperson, for example, may have learnt to transform an aggressive impulse that was once directed towards his or her parents into aggressive sales tactics. The sales tactics will be very gratifying because the aggression expended in selling is the satisfaction of the very pesky past wish to act aggressively towards his or her parents.-- Because the original wish has now become an insatiable unconscious memory, the salesperson will be motivated to pursue aggressive sales tactics indefinitely – without ever being aware of the real reason their aggressiveness causes them to feel so good.

All the above defense mechanisms are considered maladaptive to our mental health; however, many psychologists hail sublimation to be a “healthy” form of defense. In fact, many contend that this process was necessary for the development of our civilized Western society. From a spiritual perspective some may view this process as far from ideal because it, like the other defense mechanisms, can postpone the purification of our soul. Furthermore, the process of sublimation, in some cases, can involve a diabolic fantasy driven by unconscious sin. For example, a person will usually escape tormenting feelings of shame and guilt, and the psychic trauma of very painful unconscious memories, by developing self-pride. Such pride begins at the unconscious level, but then it is sublimated into a real-life fantasy that emphasizes love-of-self.-- However, the above views can be countered with the view that sublimation prevents some of us from falling into more extreme forms of evil, or that it becomes a part of a sacrifice that promotes God’s plan for our eternal salvation. And certainly, other forms of sublimation can be purely virtuous in that they are absent of any evil. In any event, it may help to remember that our life here on earth, and life here on earth as we know it today, is temporary.
 
The dilemma here is that the individual need not ever act out the perversions, but fail to uproot the temptation itself, which to me seems wilful.The perversion is willfully repressed but the stain of sin remains. Again, is the willful failure to root up a sin in itself even if one never physically acts out the “sin?”
 
They closed the other thread.
Is this an attempt to continue this train of thought?
Because that other one ended very badly.
 
Robert wrote: RRationalization: “With this defense we try to justify sinful impulses and the resulting sinful behavior to ourselves and others…”

I think you should think about this part of what you wrote.
 
This was confusing for me. I try hard to control my past perversions and desires from effecting my conscious mind, I cant control my unconscious mind!

Some years ago I went to confession and told the priest I had impure dreams, he said this is not a sin but a natural response since I was trying to live chastely. He said it would only be a sin if I did something before I went to sleep (ie viewed impure content, impure thoughts).
 
Aside from that, consider the way the Church presents natural virtues: the virtue is the mid-point of a spectrum, for example, courage is a virtue, but too little is un-virtuous (cowardice), and too much is also UN-virtuous (foolhardiness).

Let’s look at your aggressive salesman. If he is a good salesman, he is using his “aggression”–at this virtuous level, let’s call it zeal–to do good. If he is overly aggressive, for example, if he threatens or lies to customers to get a sale, then he has an excess of zeal, or aggressiveness.

Now, that excess is bad, but all he has to do is to clarify his sinful actions and eschew them. He does not have to go through this Freudian song and dance of realizing that he really feels aggressive towards his father to get over the sin; he just has to realize it is wrong and take the normal measures to rid himself of that.
 
If it’s unconscious, almost by definition it would not be sinful.

IMNAAHO

ICXC NIKA
 
They closed the other thread.
Is this an attempt to continue this train of thought?
Because that other one ended very badly.
Yes.

If anyone needs help with repression, they need to use a trained therapist and recognised psychological techniques.

Lou
 
If it’s unconscious then you don’t know about it. How can it be a sin?
 
They closed the other thread.
Is this an attempt to continue this train of thought?
Because that other one ended very badly.
Defence mechanisms are so basic in psychology it amazes me that they not well accepted in Catholicism. Psychologists often point to repression as an unnecessary condition fueled by religion. All I’m up to is introducing these pesky defence mechanisms to fellow Catholics. I would not me doing this if I did not think it has something to offer to us. re-read what I wrote about defense mechanisms and see if you can use this knowledge to spot them working in us and others.

Catholicism is by far number one in my life, and it too has a lot of knowledge that seems worthy to share with psychologists, but most are not the least bit interested. Why there is not more sharing of knowledge between these two camps can be frustrating, but I’m amazed at how segregated they remain.
 
Robert wrote: RRationalization: “With this defense we try to justify sinful impulses and the resulting sinful behavior to ourselves and others…”

I think you should think about this part of what you wrote.
Yes, I’m a victim of these defenses like everyone else, but I fail see your point here. If you’re saying that I’m rationalizing my sinful impulses, I would be interested in knowing how?
 
“Defence mechanisms are so basic in psychology it amazes me that they not well accepted in Catholicism. Psychologists often point to repression as an unnecessary condition fueled by religion”

Psychology points to repression as an unnecessary condition fueled by religion??? I beg to differ…each human has within them a conscience by God’s design. Adam and Eve KNEW they did something wrong. So did Cain. Secularists would have us repress the conscience. Which would be unnatural and unwise. Our faith helps us to keep our God-given conscience engaged.
 
“Defence mechanisms are so basic in psychology it amazes me that they not well accepted in Catholicism. Psychologists often point to repression as an unnecessary condition fueled by religion”

Psychology points to repression as an unnecessary condition fueled by religion??? I beg to differ…each human has within them a conscience by God’s design. Adam and Eve KNEW they did something wrong. So did Cain. Secularists would have us repress the conscience. Which would be unnatural and unwise. Our faith helps us to keep our God-given conscience engaged.
I’ve been away from psychology for some time now, but back then, yes, psychologists often expressed their bias against religion, especially Catholicism. There was one well known psychologist that used to express his hatred of religion with the utmost vagarity. I’m surprised that you’re surprised by this.
 
I’ve been away from psychology for some time now, but back then, yes, psychologists often expressed their bias against religion, especially Catholicism. There was one well known psychologist that used to express his hatred of religion with the utmost vagarity. I’m surprised that you’re surprised by this.
So why are you perpetuating psychology ideas from 20 years ago that are blaming religion for problems that people have?
 
I don’t understand, OP. You state your religion as Catholic, and you are on a Catholic website. But you use this website to tell others that the religion you believe in is holding you back…from what?

Lou
 
So why are you perpetuating psychology ideas from 20 years ago that are blaming religion for problems that people have?
I don’t understand, OP. You state your religion as Catholic, and you are on a Catholic website. But you use this website to tell others that the religion you believe in is holding you back…from what?

Lou
I think you guys are misunderstanding me, but I’m not sure how. I’m now a Catholic first and utmost. I love love, and love was simply not to be found in psychology. But I do borrow from psychology if it helps explain religious phenomena. Not to sound proud or anything, but I think that our becoming aware of our defense mechanisms helps us to better understand ourselves and even free ourselves from unconscious sin.
 
Not going to read the whole post…wheew that is long 😉

Key: That which is unconscious - is UNCONSCIOUS. It is not something willed.

Sin is in the will. Not in the unconscious.

And for mortal sin one needs besides grave matter - full knowledge and deliberate consent.

Catechism:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1859
 
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