Is he clueless?!? Help please

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I agree with you. I definitely see what you are saying. The biggest issue is my family. They are, unfortunately, very much in denial. They are extremely religious (catholic) and basically shut out the rest of the world.

You are dead on. I am really struggling because I feel as if I’m wandering… My mom and sister are so religious they are cultish. They no longer wear make up … Don’t believe in Halloween for the kids. They won’t let their kids watch princess movies or play with barbies. They don’t like the way our society is and they basically live in their own little world
My wife is a very smart woman. She is also hopelessly disorganized. This is not her fault as she has ADD. But it still bugs the heck out of me that I have to do the bulk of the cleaning around the house. She does the deep cleaning stuff but I have to do nearly all of the picking up. And the laundry. It’s incredibly frustrating, especially since she constantly says she’ll get on it and never does. I have to learn to let it go. Of course, this is a much more minor situation than what you’re dealing with, but the lessons are similar.

Look, quite frankly I think you’re projecting some of this pain onto your husband. I know, it’s a jerk thing to say but it seems like it’s there. He’s awkwardly trying to get you to address it, to face it head on, to make your family know that you HURT and that you have a reason to hurt. I think he’s going about it in a wrong-headed fashion. But I also think that you need to deal with boundaries with your family members. Your mother kindly chatting up a rapist and telling you about it is all kinds of messed up. Has your husband ever done anything like that? I doubt it. He’s just doing a very poor job of trying to get you to break through with your family. I think he needs to stop that. I think you need to either have it out with your family about this guy and lay it all on the line or simply break off contact.

They’re the ones hurting you more by denying that this ever happened. They’re hurting you more than a husband who lacks common sense and is an airhead. Yes, the bills need to get paid on time but I daresay close relatives insisting that you invented a rape is far worse than what he’s doing.

No, he’s not helping the way he needs to. Yes, he’s got plenty of things to sort out on his end. But is there not a bit of a kernel of truth that all of your emotional distress over your past is being projected onto him when he never actually hurt you in such a severe fashion? Your family members insisting that you made it up are the ones hurting you.
 
Lay Catholics are called to be in the world but not of the world. So we must be in our community while not being attached to the things of this world. Your family is not being Catholic. They are twisting Catholicism to fit their need to be insulated from society.

Look, I’m not a fan of society the way that it is. Of course, I’d also be horrified by the 1950s and its racism. Or the 1800s and slavery. Or the Middle Ages and its pogroms of Jews whenever there was a plague or bad economic time. Suffice to say that society is filled with humans and humans are fallen creatures. It’s always going to be messed up.

The answer is not to retreat but to boldly carry the Light of Christ into the world and not be affected when the world throws tomatoes at us. It’s not to shun everyone else or to judge them, but to love everyone regardless of what they do to us AND to not feel like we’re victims.

I understand where you’re coming from. My mother thinks that Harry Potter is evil. She suffers from an insane amount of scrupulosity. She forced my brother to go to Franciscan University because she was so worried that he’d end up falling into sin, even though she let the oldest three kids go to whatever college we pleased.

She’s twisting Catholicism to cover up the fact that she was manipulated and emotionally abused by my father who is a full-blown sex addict. She moved our family multiple times to put distance between him and his affairs. She papered over all the problems they were having and the effect it was having on the children. Totally glossed over it and has been living a lie for the better part of two decades. Obviously that never worked and now she’s really, really screwed up.

So I get what you’re saying. Please know that this is not Catholicism. It’s basically a mental illness being “treated” by a twisted version of the true Faith.
 
To the OP, Yes, men are clueless.
This is a very bad generalization to make. You have no way of knowing how many men are clueless that you would say a thing like that. Another poster had it right. How would it be if we said women are (Fill in the blank with your own derogatory remark?)

Since you are fairly new to posting, please try to refrain from making these kinds of sweeping generalizations. Unless you like having to explain yourself and debate with people that disagree. 🤷
 
Thanks for the reply. I do believe he’s clueless. That’s the hard part. I feel like I just keeps repeating hurtful mistakes out of ignorance even though he’s a very smart man.
Smart men sometimes have that problem, especially if they have book smarts or artistic minds and work theoretical jobs. There is a reason why scientists aren’t sometimes the best managers of daily affairs. Nor are artists or writers. There are exceptions, of course, but still. When you’re always on to something thereotical, you just don’t focus on taking out the trash, washing the dishes, mowing the lawn etc. on time. Doesn’t mean you don’t ever do it (although some people get to that point), but you just don’t keep yourself aware of it constantly, don’t check with the schedule etc.

This is connected with how male and female brains work. Men can concentrate and focus a bit better than women but are worse at multi-tasking. When you have a job that demands all your focus and concentration or a task that puts similar requirements on you or a personal problem that eats you up from the inside, then you just can’t keep track of all the other things. This is basically the same thing which causes everybody to prefer to slow down, sit down, focus on one thing, do it right. Except it isn’t always about a task you decide to start doing here and then, sometimes something can be on your mind like that constantly, like a job or a project, or it can keep you busy against your will like a personal problem.

Perhaps try to recall what got you attracted to your husband? Maybe it was the sense of humour, the intellect, the light-hearted attitude, perhaps an easy-going manner? It could be two sides of the same coin with the problems you’re experiencing with him. Although, if therapy is involved, I guess he has some personal problems on top of it.

I don’t know about his personal life, like what problems are making him need therapy, e.g. losing a family member or a job, or some things from childhood. But as far as being a clueless guy that doesn’t remember about anything goes, I can tell it’s very hard to defeat it and it’s practically impossible to do it fully. In fact, I could tell you more about it. I’m one of those guys. For example, I know I will never stop misplacing my keys or wallet or phone. I’ve got used to it, although it’s frustrating (no, I’m not proud of myself or uncaring about it, it hurts me more than other people in the first place–it may be the same with your husband if he knows he can’t get anything on time). I try to make sure I’m on time for meetings, tasks etc. but I know success will not be perfect, I’ll generally always be below average.

At least I always try and strive to get my work on time, stuff I do for a living and employers (clients) are paying for, and I do place above average in general as a result. Still, I haven’t avoided a couple of slips or very evitable mistakes that would’ve been avoided with less haste and more focus, basically if I had put more attention in it.

I know this isn’t great from other people’s point of view but I hope that if we’re family or friends or business partners they can accept it, well: accept me because this is what it is about. It would pain me if they didn’t and it would pain me to no end if it happened in a marriage (I’m not married). At the same time, I must say I feel wronged when I feel that people would basically want me to change my personality for them. Or drop whatever I’m thinking about, regardless what it is or how important to me, and instead of pursuing my work or interests, just put my mental and psychic strength in training myself to ingrain that thing which they are expecting of me, even though objectively it isn’t anything so important to them.

So, perhaps, if you can’t put up with a relatively small fault somebody has, perhaps think, okay, if he could change it. But if he can’t change it, would I want him to put everything in his life on ice so that he could put his undivided inner strength in changing for me? Leave it for the important things that he will actually really have to change. I’m sure there are some, like that stuff with your aunt.

There are also some areas where you simply seem to have different opinions. Like when you asked why he didn’t take your son in his car and he said he didn’t want him to have to sit through the traffic. You can disagree with your husband about the merits of this decision but you must realise the weight of the issue is minimal. Also, even if you disagree, you can’t really say that your husband was wrong. He simply chose different priorities than you did: you focused on avoiding the need to hire a nanny, he focused on not inflicting the dull traffic on the child. It’s possible that he hates the traffic and it’s a huge sacrifice for him to go through it day by day, so he wanted to spare your son the same if possible. This is normal, sound reasoning.

One more thing to realise is that things look very different from the “auditing” (critiquing) point of view, when you verify someone’s work or when you go through his decision, than when you’re in the same spot and you’re the one doing those things and making the decisions. Don’t assume that you’d have made better choices or done a better job if you’d been the one doing the same thing (e.g. choosing the right priorities for the situation). We’re all fallible, it’s quite possible that you’d have made some mistakes too in similar situations, just maybe different mistakes than he did. We’re all made of the same clay.
 
So, you can’t change him all, and in some aspects of it you really shouldn’t (like forcing him to focus all his energy on correcting a single, relatively unimportant bad habit). But there are some important things, sure, and you shouldn’t be expected to be the only one needing to remember about everything needs to be done. Have you tried explaining to him why some things are important to you, not just that they are? Have you tried telling him how things are making you feel (e.g. why you think something’s unfair) rather than only saying that they’re wrong and need to change? Some people have this type of personality where they are not particularly receptive to to the communication of wants and wishes but they can be convinced when they hear the why and they can understand or empathise with your concerns even if they don’t actually agree. I don’t know your husband but I’d try justifying things and offering a rationale when you want him to treat something as important. As other people said, don’t expect him to guess anyway. I’m sure you can’t read his mind either and find out on your own what’s important to him (and he may be bottling some things up). You might actually feel somewhat clueless if you asked him and he replied honestly. Don’t presume he has nothing just because he isn’t saying it.
Well my mom and I hadn’t spoken about the “family friend/rapist” in a long long time. Then out of the blue she called me and told me she ran into him at church. And she said they chatted about how things were in his life and she wanted to make sure to tell me that he asked about me and said “hi” and how happy he was for me in my life successes.
I immediately started crying and told her that I was stunned that she talked to him like nothing had happened and that she even told ME about it?
She said she won’t ignore people or be mean to them and I should learn to forgive.
I haven’t spoken to her since and its breaking my heart. It is so hurtful!
I’m so sorry to hear that. 😦 I’m a criminal lawyer myself and I can’t understand how it’s possible for people to so completely and utterly fail to realise what rape is. Like it’s a small extortion of a favour and not a horrible violation. My jurisdiction actually had to increase the penalty in the statute because the courts were too lenient. People just don’t seem to get it. Since it’s your mother, I would try talking. I would try to talk her out of the complacent mood, prevent her from the denial and downplaying, push her to confront the reality and make sure she understands what an issue rape is, that it’s not some “oops, I’m sorry, my bad!” kind of thing.
 
What’s so interesting is she says “if you say it happened than I will trust your word”. So this conversation took place with my abuser despite the fact she SAYS she is trusting my word that it happened.

She said she just won’t ignore or be rude to him… She says “you have to forgive”.

I just think she is mentally unstable. She can’t possibly think its ok to talk to him… Right?

So painful for me.
 
Here;s an idea. Is there something that your husband considers a private/sensitive matter to him?

If so, ask him how it would make him feel if you told a family member/friend that matter? I think that sometimes people need to put the shoe on the other foot before they can truly understand how someone else feels. When you ask him this, do it respectfully…not in a “gotcha” kind of way. What he did is unloving (although probably not intentionally), but don’t make things worse by being disrespectful.

Edited: And I think when we call someone else “clueless” that is inherently disrespectful. I’m going to go out on a limb and suspect that you are not being respectful and therefore he is not being loving (vicious cycle).
 
What’s so interesting is she says “if you say it happened than I will trust your word”. So this conversation took place with my abuser despite the fact she SAYS she is trusting my word that it happened.

She said she just won’t ignore or be rude to him… She says “you have to forgive”.

I just think she is mentally unstable. She can’t possibly think its ok to talk to him… Right?

So painful for me.
You need to go into counseling to help you deal with your mother. I think it will help your marriage a lot.
 
“She said she just won’t ignore or be rude to him… She says “you have to forgive”.”

I don’t know what to do with this. I think what she means is, “I have to ignore what you just told me, because if I paid attention, I’d have to completely rethink my relationship to this person and rethink who I think they are, as well as rethink how good a job I did as a mom. I’d have to choose between protecting you now and keeping up social appearances with this person, and I don’t want to do that.” I think she’s also mistaking being “nice” for being good or forgiving, which is entirely different. Forgiveness and goodness are costly. There’s no evidence here that her “forgiveness” is costing her anything at all, because she’s not really processing how much harm was done to you. This is cheap grace.

I agree with what people said earlier. You should be mad at your mom, not your husband, for the fact that your mom is being so insensitive about this, but of course going forward, he should bear in mind that your family is not a reliable source of emotional support.

About cluelessness–there have been some very good things said here. In my own family, it hasn’t been very gendered. I have a 10-year-old daughter who leaves open every cupboard door or drawer she opens, explodes her backpack over the living room when she gets home from school, and would have her room knee-deep in craft supplies if I allowed it. She really doesn’t see what she’s doing until I point it out. She also spaces out in the middle of tasks like getting dressed for school or brushing her hair (brush-think-brush-think-brush-think). Her style of tooth-brushing is to just stick the brush in her mouth and THINK. 30 seconds later, she’s done, whether or not any actual brushing has occurred. Meanwhile, her 7-year-old brother is a little neat freak who is dressed and has his lunch packed for school half an hour before it’s time to leave. These are innate features, I’m afraid.

My husband has learned so much about housekeeping in the decade and a half we’ve known each other. For one thing, as a rule, he doesn’t make messes anymore in shared spaces. For another, I’ve accepted that he gets to organize the garage and his office as he likes (but hopefully with a yearly reorganizations). We divide responsibilities in a way that plays to our strengths. I hate bureaucratic stuff and it doesn’t bother him, so he fills out forms and pays bills. (There was a brief period at the beginning of our marriage where I paid bills (because that’s what women in my family did), but then I realized it was much less stressful for him than it was for me.) He hates making phone calls, so I make nearly all of them. Also, I’m in charge of irregular stuff (like making dental and medical apts. and managing the family calendar), while he loads the dishwasher every night. In general, I’d really encourage you to figure out together a list of tasks he doesn’t hate, and make sure they’re at regularly recurring times (dishes or laundry or supervising homework every night, yard work or grocery shopping every weekend), and then assign yourself more irregular or unpredictable stuff (like putting toilet paper on the grocery list or remembering that the HVAC filter needs to be changed at certain intervals).
 
What’s so interesting is she says “if you say it happened than I will trust your word”. So this conversation took place with my abuser despite the fact she SAYS she is trusting my word that it happened.

She said she just won’t ignore or be rude to him… She says “you have to forgive”.

I just think she is mentally unstable. She can’t possibly think its ok to talk to him… Right?

So painful for me.
I couldn’t agree more that you have to find forgiveness. However, when faced with the choice of which person to offend, your mom dropped the ball big time. She’s your mother. I would expect her protection and loyalty to be to her daughter over a criminal. She doesn’t accept or understand the magnitude of what happened to you. Maybe it’s too painful for her to confront fully, especially since it may have happened right under her nose. Your hubby is maybe just trying to help you, in whatever way he knows, because it comes up in your marriage. After you’ve expressed yourself to them, then I think it’s necessary to leave it, stop nursing your hurt, and find something productive to do. And every day, put the magnifying glass as much or more on yourself as you do on your mom & your hubby and the other people who love you. It can help you see your own shortcomings with greater clarity, and accept the shortcomings of others. I hope that you will keep working with a professional who has the ability to help you find some measure of peace with your life.
 
Well I wrote an email to my mother about how hurtful it all was to me and that I would never do that to my own son. It was deep and honest.

My husband just read it and told me it was too harsh and that I have just put the last nail in the coffin… Telling me I was too harsh.

Now I feel awful.
 
Well I wrote an email to my mother about how hurtful it all was to me and that I would never do that to my own son. It was deep and honest.

My husband just read it and told me it was too harsh and that I have just put the last nail in the coffin… Telling me I was too harsh.

Now I feel awful.
I’m confused. We went from you were so hurt you hadn’t spoken to him about how his talking to your aunt hurt you to (I’m assuming) asking him to read your letter to your mom to get his (name removed by moderator)ut about it. Could you fill in the missing blanks?
 
After my Mom told me that she ran into my abuser and that he said “hi” to me…and she acted like nothing was wrong… I was terribly hurt that she just had a nice little catch up conversation with him as if nothing had happened.

So I wrote her an email and told her that she hurt me and that I would never talk to an abuser… If it were my child. It was deep and honest. My husband read it last night and chastised me for writing it… Saying it would destroy her.

Honestly it was my husband’s reaction to my email to my Mom that nearly destroyed me. I was so upset thinking that I had seriously hurt my mother. He told me that I needed to kind my tone down because my mom isn’t stable enough to handle such “strong medicine”.

I was so upset that I decided to call my Mom and make sure she was ok… Since she didn’t respond. Surprise … Surprise she was JUST fine. She didn’t apologize and just said that she felt she had to tell me about the conversation because she didn’t want to hide anything from me and she needed to clear her conscience.

So I didn’t say much and got off the phone politely. My husband is now mad at ME for being angry over his response.

I feel so alone. My husband never supports me and it stinks.
 
“I feel so alone. My husband never supports me and it stinks.”

I think he’s trying to support you, just doing it wrong, because he doesn’t know your mom or your family dynamics as well as you do. A normal mother would feel destroyed under the circumstances, but it doesn’t sound like your mom is normal.

I think you and your husband need to talk to a third party about your mom and figure out how to deal with her in future. A minimal (but polite) relationship is probably the way to go.
 
I don’t know… He spent a great deal of time picking the email apart. I started crying because he told me that my mom would clearly feel like a terrible mother after that and then said “is that what you want??? If so… That’s what you achieved”. I told him it was making me feel awful and he continued on. When I finally asked him to stop he got up and left. He ignored me and I said “how am I the bad guy here for asking you to soften the blows”. He just ignored me.

He was shocked when I told him I called my mom to make sure she was ok and that she was JUST fine. Then he said “I’m sorry if you felt hurt”.
 
I don’t know… He spent a great deal of time picking the email apart. I started crying because he told me that my mom would clearly feel like a terrible mother after that and then said “is that what you want??? If so… That’s what you achieved”. I told him it was making me feel awful and he continued on. When I finally asked him to stop he got up and left. He ignored me and I said “how am I the bad guy here for asking you to soften the blows”. He just ignored me.

He was shocked when I told him I called my mom to make sure she was ok and that she was JUST fine. Then he said “I’m sorry if you felt hurt”.
I’ve said this before but I think you both have serious issues to work though and smashing him on the Internet is not going to help. He was giving you his opinion about what this email would do. Frankly, I kind of agree with him at least at first. He thinks she’s unstable and so sending a tough message could make her flip out. The fact that she DIDN’T flip out does not mean he was somehow wrong or trying to hurt you. He has no idea what her reaction will be. He was giving you an honest assessment.

Busting out a line like “Is that what you want? If so, that’s what you achieved” is a very poor choice of words. Especially in a delicate situation. But that’s a communication problem. And it seems to be a character flaw that you share with him.

I don’t know the particulars of your life. I do know from these posts and previous ones that he’s got some major maturing to do and needs to stop being a clueless airhead. You have some deep and traumatic history to sort though. You’re both somewhat damaged (welcome to the club! It’s called humanity) and you seem to take everything he says and does as an attack. You can’t do that. It’s unfair to him and it’s unfair to you!

Your husband may not do a great job of keeping the trains running on time but he does seem to care about your emotional well being and wants your family to actually be supportive when clearly they’re not. He does a poor job of trying to facilitate efforts in smoothing things out. But he is making the effort. Maybe it would behoove you both to work on boundaries and certain life skills as it pertains to communication, developing trust and letting the little things go.
 
As a general principal, I have to agree with your husband about not putting anything really bad into print. However, in your mother’s particular case, it seems to roll off her back like water off a duck. (I broke the nothing-bad-in-print rule myself last year in a big way and I don’t regret it, but 99% of the time, the rule is worth keeping.)

I see your husband putting energy into dealing with your family relationships, which is a good sign. He’s just not very good at it.

(By the way, isn’t this a classic husband-wife misunderstanding? Wife mentions problem. Husband jumps in, wants to fix problem. Wife didn’t want husband to fix problem, gets mad.)

Counseling, counseling, counseling!
 
She wants him to fix the problems, he’s just doing a bad job. Seems like either inconsistent effort or misdirected effort. This can be ironed out with counseling; it’s not like there is no effort at all or intentional sabotage.
 
As a general principal, I have to agree with your husband about not putting anything really bad into print. However, in your mother’s particular case, it seems to roll off her back like water off a duck. (I broke the nothing-bad-in-print rule myself last year in a big way and I don’t regret it, but 99% of the time, the rule is worth keeping.)

I see your husband putting energy into dealing with your family relationships, which is a good sign. He’s just not very good at it.

(By the way, isn’t this a classic husband-wife misunderstanding? Wife mentions problem. Husband jumps in, wants to fix problem. Wife didn’t want husband to fix problem, gets mad.)

Counseling, counseling, counseling!
Ding ding ding! Granted, this problem is a very emotionally charged one, but it’s still a problem he was trying to help you fix (and being a man he was trying to attack it without the emotion). I do agree that he needs to be more sensitive in handing out advice ESPECIALLY regarding anything revolving around your abuse, but that will take a lot of time and patience. Bottom line: If he didn’t care, he wouldn’t have bothered. I would tell him you do appreciate his wanting to help you out but that you would appreciate it if he would try to be more sensitive to this issue.
 
I totally see what you are saying. I really do. But I tend to think the reason he doesn’t want me to cut off all ties is because I stand to inherit a lot of money. He talks a big game… Even threatened to call/email my Mom himself… He said she was just horrible etc etc.

Then I go ahead and write her an honest and deep email (no attacks) and he starts to panic? " you realize you probably just cut ties with your mom forever by sending that".

I said “well if that’s how she responds… Than that’s how she responds. I can’t control her actions”.

“well that was NOT something I would have expected and I really hope she’s alright after reading that…, do you think that she could ever think of herself as a good mother… After reading that?”

That is what I got from him and It just made NO sense to me. I try to solve the problem (after talking to my therapist) and my husband makes me feel bad about it?
Ding ding ding! Granted, this problem is a very emotionally charged one, but it’s still a problem he was trying to help you fix (and being a man he was trying to attack it without the emotion). I do agree that he needs to be more sensitive in handing out advice ESPECIALLY regarding anything revolving around your abuse, but that will take a lot of time and patience. Bottom line: If he didn’t care, he wouldn’t have bothered. I would tell him you do appreciate his wanting to help you out but that you would appreciate it if he would try to be more sensitive to this issue.
 
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