Is Homosexuality Genetic?

[Arandur]

Of course, like you said, they were imperfect humans. But I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all.

Imperfect humans Divinely Inspired to transmit a true message. You may believe there are untruths written in the Scriptures (in terms of faith and morals), but very few Christians I know of would agree. The Spirit preserved and guided their message. It does so with the Church, as well, under certain circumstances.

See what I wrote above in response to estesbob on this issue.

So you believe that an organization’s foundational/central teachings are wrong because at times parties within the organization don’t live up to them?

I think the Anglican/Episcopalian church has absolutely gained credibility. If you mean “has it gained credibility from conservative churches?” then of course not. But credibility from those outside the church like me? You bet, my friend.

You also said you didn’t think it would do harm to reverse positions. Here you admit that the Anglican/Episcopalian church has suffered harm–and it doesn’t have the kind of claims that the Catholic Church has, so its harms are less.

Are you Episcopalian? Do you look to them for guidance? What value has their newfound credibility from you and others gained? When an organization compromises its principles, how does that really gain them credibility? I believe the modern terminology for that is “sell out.”

Well, I know of many people in the Church who are willing to listen to those on the outside as they believe it is a humble exercise in the faith. If you think my little truth has nothing to say to Big Truth, then, well, keep on truckin’…

I wasn’t meaning to disparage your opinion. I was trying to say that an individual’s ideas and opinions can’t change truth. They are good insofar as they correspond to truth, wrong insofar as they disagree. So the point of a pursuit of truth, and an organization devoted to truth, should be to discover and adhere to it, not conform to individual beliefs and ideas.

 

[pathia]

Imperfect humans Divinely Inspired to transmit a true message. You may believe there are untruths written in the Scriptures (in terms of faith and morals), but very few Christians I know of would agree. The Spirit preserved and guided their message. It does so with the Church, as well, under certain circumstances.

Explain to me how people keep saying so steadfastly they KNOW exactly how I should live my life when there is exactly zero about my particular set of circumstances, not even anything close really? They are so sure of themselves they think my psychotic to not see the Truth instantly.

That is what grates me so.

 

[thewalrus]

Explain to me how people keep saying so steadfastly they KNOW exactly how I should live my life when there is exactly zero about my particular set of circumstances, not even anything close really? They are so sure of themselves they think my psychotic to not see the Truth instantly.

That is what grates me so.

And rightly so, pathia. I’m glad to hear you speak out against it. I’m with you.

 

[Arandur]

Explain to me how people keep saying so steadfastly they KNOW exactly how I should live my life when there is exactly zero about my particular set of circumstances, not even anything close really? They are so sure of themselves they think my psychotic to not see the Truth instantly.

That is what grates me so.

Who is saying they “know exactly” how you should live your life? Or are you referring to a more general code of morality, right and wrong action? Or more specifically the moral guidance of the Scriptures?

Who thinks you should see the truth instantly? It took many of us a long time to see it.

 

[thewalrus]

Imperfect humans Divinely Inspired to transmit a true message. You may believe there are untruths written in the Scriptures (in terms of faith and morals), but very few Christians I know of would agree. The Spirit preserved and guided their message. It does so with the Church, as well, under certain circumstances.

Well, for one, slavery is easily justified in Scripture. I don’t think anyone here wants to support that. Scripture must be read contextually and carefully; most people just want the easy reading because they want the easy truth. But for ethical issues such as this, it’s much more complex.

So you believe that an organization’s foundational/central teachings are wrong because at times parties within the organization don’t live up to them?

No, not necessarily. But if a church’s teaching manifests itself in exclusion, it should reflect back on bad theory/doctrine. You should look into some liberation theologians as they discuss this.

You also said you didn’t think it would do harm to reverse positions. Here you admit that the Anglican/Episcopalian church has suffered harm–and it doesn’t have the kind of claims that the Catholic Church has, so its harms are less.

I don’t understand. I’m saying I don’t think it does harm to reverse positions. That’s why the Anglican/Episcopalian Church earned respect by changing its position.

Are you Episcopalian? Do you look to them for guidance? What value has their newfound credibility from you and others gained? When an organization compromises its principles, how does that really gain them credibility? I believe the modern terminology for that is “sell out.”

No, I’m not Episcopalian nor do I look to them for guidance. They have simply earned respect because they are acknowledging a mistake and correcting it, like all good people should do when they make a mistake. They don’t just say “we’re sorry”; they welcome gays into their community with love and acceptance. Sounds a lot like Jesus.

I wasn’t meaning to disparage your opinion. I was trying to say that an individual’s ideas and opinions can’t change truth. They are good insofar as they correspond to truth, wrong insofar as they disagree. So the point of a pursuit of truth, and an organization devoted to truth, should be to discover and adhere to it, not conform to individual beliefs and ideas.

An individual’s ideas can bring the truth to light, absolutely. Think of some of the greatest figures in history who have brought certain harms and truths to light (I use that as an example, not to put myself in their company.)

 

[pathia]

Who is saying they “know exactly” how you should live your life? Or are you referring to a more general code of morality, right and wrong action? Or more specifically the moral guidance of the Scriptures?

Who thinks you should see the truth instantly? It took many of us a long time to see it.

I am told that what I am doing, how I live, despite not being sexually active. Is sinful and damning me to hell unless I instantly convert back to the gender I was raised as, despite all my medical past. It doesn’t matter, a priest said that I was a boy when I was two weeks old and that’s that, no discussion, end of the matter, I’m going to hell.

 

[DelicateMelody]

I am told that what I am doing, how I live, despite not being sexually active. Is sinful and damning me to hell unless I instantly convert back to the gender I was raised as, despite all my medical past. It doesn’t matter, a priest said that I was a boy when I was two weeks old and that’s that, no discussion, end of the matter, I’m going to hell.

You can’t honestly say you believe them, right? No one on earth in the position to judge another’s final destination. I say let them ramble, hold your head high and move on.

 

[pathia]

You can’t honestly say you believe them, right? No one on earth in the position to judge another’s final destination. I say let them ramble, hold your head high and move on.

No, I don’t, but it means I have to effectively live as a hermit. It is…lonely.

 

[thewalrus]

No, I don’t, but it means I have to effectively live as a hermit. It is…lonely.

pathia, come to Nashville sometime and I’ll buy you a drink and introduce you to my friends. It would be nothing less than an honor for me to do so.

 

[DelicateMelody]

No, I don’t, but it means I have to effectively live as a hermit. It is…lonely.

I guess that’s all that’s let to do when you live ‘nowhere.’

But honestly speaking, are there any GLT groups, where you can meet people in a similar situation?

 

[pathia]

I guess that’s all that’s let to do when you live ‘nowhere.’

But honestly speaking, are there any GLT groups, where you can meet people in a similar situation?

I don’t really fit in with GLBT culture. They’re like, distant cousins. They’re there, and I can fit in with them, but I don’t really fit in enough to be a part of the ‘culture’. I can just visit every now and then, at a big family reunion.

 

[v3orb]

I guess that’s all that’s let to do when you live ‘nowhere.’

But honestly speaking, are there any GLT groups, where you can meet people in a similar situation?

The problem is, while GLBT groups do foster relationships between gay and transgendered people, unless the group is very large and located in a very dense area, it is highly unlikely that more than one or two people in similar circumstances to pathia will be present…

 

[Arandur]

Well, for one, slavery is easily justified in Scripture. I don’t think anyone here wants to support that. Scripture must be read contextually and carefully; most people just want the easy reading because they want the easy truth. But for ethical issues such as this, it’s much more complex.

Slavery is spoken of as a condition in Scripture. Yes, of course Scripture needs to be read in context–including in the context of Tradition and the Church. The point is that what Scripture actually is teaching in matters of faith and morals is correct (that is, Scripture including the NT).

No, not necessarily. But if a church’s teaching manifests itself in exclusion, it should reflect back on bad theory/doctrine. You should look into some liberation theologians as they discuss this.

What’s exclusionary about the Catholic Church? As many have identified here, we don’t have a problem with people who have homosexual attractions. Its the sexual sin, like any other, that is a problem. There are a fair number of homosexual priests (and no, not the pedophiles; very chaste ones). Is that exclusionary?

I don’t understand. I’m saying I don’t think it does harm to reverse positions. That’s why the Anglican/Episcopalian Church earned respect by changing its position.

Yet you admitted that their credibility was harmed in the rest of the conservative Christian community, despite the fact that you at first claimed that there would be “no harm.”

Fact is, there is much controversy over their switch, including within the church, because many believe it was caving to cultural pressures and abandoning God.

No, I’m not Episcopalian nor do I look to them for guidance. They have simply earned respect because they are acknowledging a mistake and correcting it, like all good people should do when they make a mistake. They don’t just say “we’re sorry”; they welcome gays into their community with love and acceptance. Sounds a lot like Jesus.

And Catholics are worse about this? With the aforementioned priests?

An individual’s ideas can bring the truth to light, absolutely. Think of some of the greatest figures in history who have brought certain harms and truths to light (I use that as an example, not to put myself in their company.)

This is beside the point. Those individuals that “bring the truth to light” do so by demonstrating beyond their mere opinion, by some more objective and external measure, a truth. Thus my point that there are external and objective measures of truth, and personal “versions” held against those measures are just relativistic randomness.

 

[Arandur]

I am told that what I am doing, how I live, despite not being sexually active. Is sinful and damning me to hell unless I instantly convert back to the gender I was raised as, despite all my medical past. It doesn’t matter, a priest said that I was a boy when I was two weeks old and that’s that, no discussion, end of the matter, I’m going to hell.

Again, who’s telling you this?

The Catholic Church does not teach such a thing. In fact, your chastity, as you have described, is quite admirable. Chastity for anyone is admirable and good and all that is required in terms of sexuality.

 

[pathia]

Again, who’s telling you this?

The Catholic Church does not teach such a thing. In fact, your chastity, as you have described, is quite admirable. Chastity for anyone is admirable and good and all that is required in terms of sexuality.

As I have explained before, my chastity is somewhat forced.

So I must be honest, don’t give me credit where it’s not due. I am chaste, because it is impossible for me to even attempt to engage in sex due to the heavy mutilation in my childhood, constant infections combined with kidney stones.

As for who’s telling me this? All my religious based therapists of the years have drilled that into my head endlessly, particularly those that are of the NARTH variety.

 

[Bennie_P]

There might be something concerning genetics connected to SSA, but it has not been proven in any sound science. If one looks with an open logical mind, one should see where environment increases the ups and downs of same-sex sexual activity.

Behavior is learned and or re-enforced by repeating it. Though a child is hungry when it is born it doesn’t know how to eat. Even if someone has SSA they do not know how to commit sodomy until someone else leads them through the motions, either in person or in the media, pornography, both in books and/or film and perhaps in sex education class. Behavior is learned through experimentation and if you repeat a behavior it becomes re-enforced thus learned.

Within prison communities there are high rates of homosexual activity, is it because more homosexuals at higher rates then non-homosexuals go to prison? No, the men (women in women’s prison) learn instead of controlling their sexual urges, that they can satisfy those urges with homosexual sex. When many of the men/women who while in prison participated in homosexual behavoir return to society return to heterosexual sexual relationships.

This is one of best examples where environment does show that one, homosexuality is highly determined by environment and two, those that choose to participate in homosexual sex, in many cases can choose to stop homosexual activity and direct their urges to their proper gender role.

 

[pathia]

This is one of best examples where environment does show that one, homosexuality is highly determined by environment and two, those that choose to participate in homosexual sex, in many cases can choose to stop homosexual activity and direct their urges to their proper gender role.

So, first you call us Nazi’s and now you say we’re completely comparable to the average prison population, if not actually worse, because those in prison can ‘quit’ being gay?

I am bisexual, I know that, yet I never have sex, but my urge cannot be redirected. I tried for almost TWENTY years to redirect it. Why exactly has nothing worked? I’ve tried religious therapy, prayer, drugs, experimental therapy, aversion therapy, everything and yes, even electroshock therapy (Completely willing I must add). I’ve been treated by NARTH therapists, Exodus therapists, Catholic therapists, secular therapists, religious (but not catholic) therapists. Nada, Zilch

NOTHING
WORKS

 

[Nino]

Everyone I have known had either an absent or dead daddy…loved therefor his mommy too much and when he hit the age of around 12 he felt guilty to be attracted sexually to other females so he turned to other males!.Its enviornment…as a sapling is bent so will it grow…I have also known husbands and then daddies of just girl babies…many have then turned to homosexual acts for they just cant make it with their wives anymore because of their love of their daughters!! and so it goes…no wonder that fella crawled up that pillar years ago ,what was his name …Simon…and stayed up there out of harms way!!!

 

[pathia]

Everyone I have known had either an absent or dead daddy…loved therefor his mommy too much and when he hit the age of around 12 he felt guilty to be attracted sexually to other females so he turned to other males!.Its enviornment…as a sapling is bent so will it grow…I have also known husbands and then daddies of just girl babies…many have then turned to homosexual acts for they just cant make it with their wives anymore because of their love of their daughters!! and so it goes…no wonder that fella crawled up that pillar years ago ,what was his name …Simon…and stayed up there out of harms way!!!

My father was with me the entire time, he worked less than a mile from home. He was involved in everything in my life.

 

[Bennie_P]

So, first you call us Nazi’s and now you say we’re completely comparable to the average prison population, if not actually worse, because those in prison can ‘quit’ being gay?

I am bisexual, I know that, yet I never have sex, but my urge cannot be redirected. I tried for almost TWENTY years to redirect it. Why exactly has nothing worked? I’ve tried religious therapy, prayer, drugs, experimental therapy, aversion therapy, everything and yes, even electroshock therapy (Completely willing I must add). I’ve been treated by NARTH therapists, Exodus therapists, Catholic therapists, secular therapists, religious (but not catholic) therapists. Nada, Zilch

NOTHING
WORKS

You are not bisexual; in fact you posted numerous times to indicate that you are intersex. Your situation really has nothing to do with this discussion, in fact any example in which your situation could be used in a discussion would be about the ethical reasons why abortion and neoanticide should be allowed such as Stephen Pinker would suggest. Something I totally stand against being a pro-life activist

Of course this culture of death idea totally appalls me to even think about and it even made me sick to my stomach when I first heard that there were learned persons promoting such ideas beyond abortion.

You are special. You are important to the whole community, but you continue to twist what I post to suit what you want to see and hear. Believe it, or not myself and others in the Catholic Community truly love you as you are and hope the very best for you, but your situation has nothing to do with or about the question of the genetics of homosexuality.

gargaro.com/pinker.html

Martin Daly and Margo Wilson, both psychologists, argue that a capacity for neonaticide is built into the biological design of our parental emotions. Mammals are extreme among animals in the amount of time, energy and food they invest in their young, and humans are extreme among mammals. Parental investment is a limited resource, and mammalian mothers must ‘‘decide’’ whether to allot it to their newborn or to their current and future offspring. If a newborn is sickly, or if its survival is not promising, they may cut their losses and favor the healthiest in the litter or try again later on.

In most cultures, neonaticide is a form of this triage. Until very recently in human evolutionary history, mothers nursed their children for two to four years before becoming fertile again. Many children died, especially in the perilous first year. Most women saw no more than two or three of their children survive to adulthood, and many did not see any survive. To become a grandmother, a woman had to make hard choices. In most societies documented by anthropologists, including those of hunter-gatherers (our best glimpse into our ancestors’ way of life), a woman lets a newborn die when its prospects for survival to adulthood are poor. The forecast might be based on abnormal signs in the infant, or on bad circumstances for successful motherhood at the time – she might be burdened with older children, beset by war or famine or without a husband or social support. Moreover, she might be young enough to try again.