Is Iran Next?

[Deus_Vult]

“We”, meaning the innocent victims of terrorism, are NOT to blame for it. The terrorists themselves are to blame.

“We”, meaning our rulers, do share in the blame - by pursuing policies whose most likely effect is an increased likelihood of more attacks.

So we should do our best to please the terrorists as to not invoke them…is that what you are saying? If we ask them what we could do for them so that they would not attack us again…I guess we would be safe from them. I just dont get it…since when have these Islamic Fascist regimes been our friends. (is that better can we both agree the nations that harbor terrorists are both Islamic and Fascist just not Islamofacists) There were five major terrorist attacks during the Clinton administration 1993 WTC bombing, 1995 Saudi bombing, 1996 Khobar Tower bombing, 1998 US Embassy bomings in Africa, and 2000 US Cole…how is it now that GWB is to blame for terrorist aggression. GWB is just finally doing something about it. Clinton didnt do anything he appeased the terrorists and it did not stop the attacks. You have not come to the realization that these extremists want all Christians and Jews dead it doesnt matter what we do to appease them except convert to Islam. I for one am not willing to do that are you?

 

[gnjsdad]

Deus Vult:

So we should do our best to please the terrorists as to not invoke them…is that what you are saying? If we ask them what we could do for them so that they would not attack us again…I guess we would be safe from them.

I am proceding from one philosophical premise and one historical fact. My premise is that terrorism will never be eradicated, just as all crime will never be eradicated. As long as there are weak and strong, terrorism will be used as a tactic of the weak against the strong. There is no getting around that. My historical fact is that the anti-American Islamic insurgency began when the US established military bases in Islam’s most holy areas during the Gulf War. This is what motivated the original Al Qaeda to declare war on the US.

I do not believe our government is so naive as to believe that it can really put an end to terrorism. It has other aims in the Middle East. Since it seems unwilling to alter the policies which have inflamed the Muslim world, we had better stop whining and get used to living with periodic terrorist attacks. This is the way we are going to have to live from now on.
Deus Vult:

I just dont get it…since when have these Islamic Fascist regimes been our friends. (is that better can we both agree the nations that harbor terrorists are both Islamic and Fascist just not Islamofacists).

I’m a little confused by your statement. Pakistan is our “friend” yet is a cauldron of anti-American feeling. Same for Jordan. Ditto for Egypt. Afghanistan is showing signs of a Taliban resurgence. I don’t know that one can accurately call any of theese regimes ‘fascist’.
Deus Vult:

There were five major terrorist attacks during the Clinton administration 1993 WTC bombing, 1995 Saudi bombing, 1996 Khobar Tower bombing, 1998 US Embassy bomings in Africa, and 2000 US Cole…how is it now that GWB is to blame for terrorist aggression. GWB is just finally doing something about it. Clinton didnt do anything he appeased the terrorists and it did not stop the attacks.

Far from “appeasing” the terrorists, Clinton continued the establishment of the sizable American military presence in the Persian Gulf region begun under George Bush 41. It is this which has motivated these attacks in large part. What especially enraged the Muslim resistance with regard to Clinton was not so much the tepidity of Clinton’s responses, but the insult to Arab honor they demonstrated. Strange as it may seem to us, lobbing cruise missles from unseen ships hundreds of miles away was taken as a violation of the Arab code of honorable behavior in war.

Apart from the original overthrow of the Taliban, which was necessary, the only thing GW Bush has done is pour gasoline on the fire.
Deus Vult:

You have not come to the realization that these extremists want all Christians and Jews dead it doesnt matter what we do to appease them except convert to Islam. I for one am not willing to do that are you?

No, I am not willing to convert to Islam. And, no, I do not believe they want all Christians and Jews dead – just out of their lands.

 

[Stu]

gnjsdad:

And, no, I do not believe they want all Christians and Jews dead – just out of their lands.

Such as Southern Spain which they consider “their’s” as well. OBL spoke of taking back Spain as part of the revived Caliphate long before the Iraq War.

So you are right in your assertion, but it’s just that they think the entire Earth is comprised of “their lands”.

 

[gilliam]

Again, the terrorists (al-Qaeda) have told us many times what they want:

1. The restoration of the Caliphate under the rule of their type of Islam (see: biblia.com/islam/history.htm ). Tactically, to get there they need all Western out of the mid-East. Including all cultural trading (films, McDonalds, music, etc.). Also Turkey to become an Islamic state, as well as the erratication of Israel.
2. The entire world converted to Islam (the only way they seem to know how to do it is militarily)

 

[grotto]

What was it Nazi Germany wanted? Oh yeah, Jews GONE, and a simple takeover of Europe. Somehow, the USA didn’t get involved and did not want to be involved for a long time. What a mistake!

We learned an important lesson about noninvolvment and timing.
Iran is making loud noises about using a nuclear weapon against us, also N. Korea, and Alcaida is chomping at the bit. Should we just ignore these threats and not do anything?

When Iran tells us their nuclear program is for energy but the shape of the facilities are not equipped with “wall plugs” and are tooled to turn out “warheads”, shall we turn our attention to small appliances?
Maybe we should have the UN send in “inspectors” again. I hear they are out of work and in debt “up to their eyeballs”! Or maybe we can sue Iran in International Court?

Of course there is always the Nazi/Islamic Fascist approach:
JEWS/AMERICANS/INFIDELS GONE!

 

[gnjsdad]

grotto:

Iran is making loud noises about using a nuclear weapon against us

Can you give us a source for this?

 

[Deus_Vult]

gnjsdad:

I am proceding from one philosophical premise and one historical fact. My premise is that terrorism will never be eradicated, just as all crime will never be eradicated. As long as there are weak and strong, terrorism will be used as a tactic of the weak against the strong. There is no getting around that. My historical fact is that the anti-American Islamic insurgency began when the US established military bases in Islam’s most holy areas during the Gulf War. This is what motivated the original Al Qaeda to declare war on the US.

I do not believe our government is so naive as to believe that it can really put an end to terrorism. It has other aims in the Middle East. Since it seems unwilling to alter the policies which have inflamed the Muslim world, we had better stop whining and get used to living with periodic terrorist attacks. This is the way we are going to have to live from now on.

I’m a little confused by your statement. Pakistan is our “friend” yet is a cauldron of anti-American feeling. Same for Jordan. Ditto for Egypt. Afghanistan is showing signs of a Taliban resurgence. I don’t know that one can accurately call any of theese regimes ‘fascist’.

Far from “appeasing” the terrorists, Clinton continued the establishment of the sizable American military presence in the Persian Gulf region begun under George Bush 41. It is this which has motivated these attacks in large part. What especially enraged the Muslim resistance with regard to Clinton was not so much the tepidity of Clinton’s responses, but the insult to Arab honor they demonstrated. Strange as it may seem to us, lobbing cruise missles from unseen ships hundreds of miles away was taken as a violation of the Arab code of honorable behavior in war.

Apart from the original overthrow of the Taliban, which was necessary, the only thing GW Bush has done is pour gasoline on the fire.

No, I am not willing to convert to Islam. And, no, I do not believe they want all Christians and Jews dead – just out of their lands.

Your right “crime will never be eradicated” so does that mean we should stop fighting crime? If we took the police out of areas where we have a high crime rate would the crime rate decline…of course not. The same goes for the Middle East…if what you say is true than if the western world would completely leave the Middle East to it’s own there would be peace. With the pull out of the Gaza Strip there has been talk within the Palestine Security forces that they will not be able to contain peace. Was there peace in Iraq before we entered that country…of course not. Do you really believe what you say? And what do you mean by “violation of the Arab code of honorable behavior in war.” What Arab code would that be the code that says its ok to blow up ones self and innocent women and children…you mean that code?

 

[gnjsdad]

Deus Vult:

if what you say is true than if the western world would completely leave the Middle East to it’s own there would be peace.

No, only that Muslim anti-American terrorism would cease.
Deus Vult:

Do you really believe what you say?

Every word :yup:

 

[grotto]

gnjsdad:

Can you give us a source for this?

The source of the loud noises Iran is making about nuclear war is the sound of constructing multiple below ground - way below ground- facilities to withstand conventional bombing - meeting design criteria for nuclear weapon development and deployment. Have you been informed through the news media regarding this? Until its necessary
to expose Iran’s construction, a solid source other than what is gleaned from the news is the source. Do you think its too much of an exaggeration? Sorry, thats all I got at the moment.

 

[gnjsdad]

grotto:

The source of the loud noises Iran is making about nuclear war is the sound of constructing multiple below ground - way below ground- facilities to withstand conventional bombing - meeting design criteria for nuclear weapon development and deployment. Have you been informed through the news media regarding this? Until its necessary
to expose Iran’s construction, a solid source other than what is gleaned from the news is the source. Do you think its too much of an exaggeration? Sorry, thats all I got at the moment.

When you said “loud noises”, I took that to mean that you thought they were threatening us with a nuke.

Iran, even with a few nukes, would hardly be a threat to the United States.

 

[grotto]

Gnsdad: Was your last post meant to be scary? Cause that kind of thinking is downright worrisome!

 

[vern_humphrey]

gnjsdad:

When you said “loud noises”, I took that to mean that you thought they were threatening us with a nuke.

Iran, even with a few nukes, would hardly be a threat to the United States.

Now that is whistling past a graveyard.

Remember 9/11? There were four hijackings, carefully coordinated. Imagine four nuclear devices – one on New York, one on Washington, one on Los Angeles and one on, say Chicago.

You don’t think that’s a threat to the United States?

 

[gnjsdad]

vern humphrey:

Now that is whistling past a graveyard.

Remember 9/11? There were four hijackings, carefully coordinated. Imagine four nuclear devices – one on New York, one on Washington, one on Los Angeles and one on, say Chicago.

You don’t think that’s a threat to the United States?

We’re talking about a sovereign nation: Iran, not a group of terrorists.

The chances of Iran launching a nuclear attack against the United States are just about zero. Our response, which would certainly be nuclear, would obliterate Iran.

Why on earth would the Iranians go to the trouble of developing nuclear weapons only to give those weapons to terrorists to use in an attack such as you describe when the end result would be the total destruction of Iran? It makes no sense.

We heard similar arguments prior to the invasion of Iraq, and I give them as much credence now as I did then.

 

[gnjsdad]

grotto:

Gnsdad: Was your last post meant to be scary? Cause that kind of thinking is downright worrisome!

No, it is not my intent to incite fear. What exactly is worrisome here? That I find no threat to the United States (which has hundreds of nukes) from Iran (which might develop a few)?

 

[thestickman]

gnjsdad:

We’re talking about a sovereign nation: Iran, not a group of terrorists.

Oh my, that’s funny. Sad, but hilarious. I guess the reality Iran gives enormous amounts of support to terrorist groups just missed ya when it went by, right?

Our response, which would certainly be nuclear, would obliterate Iran.

Wow, certain death really would be a deterrent, eh? Like it is for the suicide/homicide bombers Iran supplies and supports, right?

 

[gilliam]

gnjsdad:

No, it is not my intent to incite fear. What exactly is worrisome here? That I find no threat to the United States (which has hundreds of nukes) from Iran (which might develop a few)?

Fine, and when an unknown terrorist with no tracability blows up NYC, you can rest assured that there will be people who will defend your position.

 

[gnjsdad]

Oh my, that’s funny. Sad, but hilarious. I guess the reality Iran gives enormous amounts of support to terrorist groups just missed ya when it went by, right?

Apples & oranges, stick. Financial and logistical support does not include nuclear weapons.

thestickman:

Wow, certain death really would be a deterrent, eh? Like it is for the suicide/homicide bombers Iran supplies and supports, right?

The rulers of Iran are not suicide/homicide bombers, stick. :nope:

 

[gilliam]

gnjsdad:

The rulers of Iran are not suicide/homicide bombers, stick.

No, they just supply them.

 

[thestickman]

gnjsdad:

Apples & oranges, stick. Financial and logistical support does not include nuclear weapons.

Yet. Iran doesn’t have them to give…yet.

The rulers of Iran are not suicide/homicide bombers, stick.

Not yet, they aren’t They are accessories, though, correct?

 

[gnjsdad]

gilliam:

Fine, and when an unknown terrorist with no tracability blows up NYC, you can rest assured that there will be people who will defend your position.

Let me get this straight. If “an unknown terrorist with no tracability blows up NYC”, are you saying we’d be justified in retaliating with nukes against Iran? Even though there’s no tracability?