Is is liturgically correct to sing the Alleluia after the Gospel is read

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CantorRick said:
Not only is it liturgically correct…it is pretty much mandated for the season of Easter, starting with the Vigil on Saturday all the way through Penticost.

The 50 day period of increased solemnity (not solemness) based on the feast being celebrated brings about the Gospel Acclamation before the Proclamation of the Gospel (“The Gospel of the Lord”) which includes the versicle and after the Gospel has been proclaimed, without versicle.

“The word of the Lord”, which is the closing of the first 2 readings, is used only for said readings and not for the Psalm nor the Gospel.

More information on this can be found in USCCB publication #7-022 and #5-544

After a while it’s not confusing…it’s eagerly looked forward to.

Best regards and God bless.

RM
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Now I’m thoroughly confused.

If it’s “mandated” no one bothered to tell the folks who printed the Sacramentary, and no one bothered to tell the folks who printed the GIRM.

I can’t locate those USCCB documents, so I’m not going to deny them. But I can’t help but wonder why such a mandate is absent from the Sacramentary. Please help. Perhaps it’s in the Lectionary and I never noticed it?

–confused:shrug:
 
The two resources mentioned are publications by the USCCB that are designed to be guidebooks to the Mass (5-544) and a musical resource (7-022). Neither are binding documents of liturgical law, rather they are explanations of liturgical law and aides in preparing liturgy (specifically appropriate music).

I see nothing in the binding liturgical documents: GIRM, RS, that supports this poster’s position. Perhaps he could cite a more authoritative source, because although his sources are published by USCCB, they are not as authoritative as liturgical law.
 
MusicMan said:
The two resources mentioned are publications by the USCCB that are designed to be guidebooks to the Mass (5-544) and a musical resource (7-022). Neither are binding documents of liturgical law, rather they are explanations of liturgical law and aides in preparing liturgy (specifically appropriate music).

I see nothing in the binding liturgical documents: GIRM, RS, that supports this poster’s position. Perhaps he could cite a more authoritative source, because although his sources are published by USCCB, they are not as authoritative as liturgical law.
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My surprise is genuine.
It’s entirely possible that such a thing is there, but I’ve never seen it. But I do remain skeptical.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Now I’m thoroughly confused.

If it’s “mandated” no one bothered to tell the folks who printed the Sacramentary, and no one bothered to tell the folks who printed the GIRM.

I can’t locate those USCCB documents, so I’m not going to deny them. But I can’t help but wonder why such a mandate is absent from the Sacramentary. Please help. Perhaps it’s in the Lectionary and I never noticed it?

–confused:shrug:
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O.K. “Mandated”. Bad choice of words on my part but I beg your indulgence since i’ve only been doing this for about 30 years.

The key to the use of the Gospel Acclamation before the proclamation of the Gospel and the repetition of the “Alleluia” portion after the the Gospel is read is the Liturgical Cycle.

Our Latin Rite “High Holy Days” are the Easter Season and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Christmas.

It is permissable to sing everything during the Easter season. These are the times of celebration with maximum participation of the gathered faithful. Because the Gospel is the high point of the Liturgy of the Word, the emphasis on the importance is imparted with praise to God (Alleluia) before and after the Gospel Proclamation.

The final say-so as to it’s use in the Liturgy is up to the pastor who is also supposed to be the (final word) liturgist for the parish.

The numbers I cited are the publication numbers for the books available from the USCCB. 5-544 is the Introduction to the Order of Mass, and 7-022 is Music in Divine Worship.

The Sacramentary and G.I.R.M. (the former contains the latter) are good resources and not to be discounted, there are also advisory texts put out by N.P.M., G.I.A., and O.C.P. which contain a wealth of information regarding Liturgy which are all in keeping with the rubrics of the church and assist in developing a “full and participatory” Mass.

Best regards and God bless.

RM
 
I’m sorry, but the General Instruction of the Roman Missal is the liturgical law of the Church for the celebration of the Mass. If you cannot cite a passage that gives you the option of singing the Alleluia again after the Gospel, then you may not do so. The GIRM (along with Redemptoris Sacramentum, a clarification document of sorts) is the final word on the liturgy, supplanting the wishes and desires of the musicians, the pastor, and even the bishop. Period.
 
CantorRick said:
O.K. “Mandated”. Bad choice of words on my part but I beg your indulgence since i’ve only been doing this for about 30 years.

The key to the use of the Gospel Acclamation before the proclamation of the Gospel and the repetition of the “Alleluia” portion after the the Gospel is read is the Liturgical Cycle.

Our Latin Rite “High Holy Days” are the Easter Season and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Christmas.

It is permissable to sing everything during the Easter season. These are the times of celebration with maximum participation of the gathered faithful. Because the Gospel is the high point of the Liturgy of the Word, the emphasis on the importance is imparted with praise to God (Alleluia) before and after the Gospel Proclamation.

The final say-so as to it’s use in the Liturgy is up to the pastor who is also supposed to be the (final word) liturgist for the parish.

The numbers I cited are the publication numbers for the books available from the USCCB. 5-544 is the Introduction to the Order of Mass, and 7-022 is Music in Divine Worship.

The Sacramentary and G.I.R.M. (the former contains the latter) are good resources and not to be discounted, there are also advisory texts put out by N.P.M., G.I.A., and O.C.P. which contain a wealth of information regarding Liturgy which are all in keeping with the rubrics of the church and assist in developing a “full and participatory” Mass.

Best regards and God bless.

RM
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It seems that answers my question. So it’s not a part of the Mass put there by the Church, it was put there by NPM GIA and OCP. That certainly clarifies things. Thank you. I am no longer confused.

If, on the other hand, such a thing is to be found in liturgical law published by the USCCB, I will again return to the state of “confused.”

PS The Sacramentary and GIRM are not just “good resources” but you’re absolutely right in saying that they’re not to be discounted.
 
I have heard the Alleluia repeated after the Gospel at the cathedral of the Archdiocese of St. Louis, in the presence of our beloved prior archbishop, who was no slacker when it came to the liturgy. The GIRM may be the law, but I do not think it was intended to cover every specific possibility that may be allowed elsewhere.
 
As we’ve said many times, the GIRM is essentially written in the “Do THIS” format, not the “Don’t do THIS” format. If the Church had wanted an option to have the Alleluia sung after the Gospel, she would have written it in to the GIRM as an option.

Here’s a thought… perhaps the Ceremonial of Bishops allows for music during the procession of the Gospel book back to the Bishop (or Pope) for him to bless the people with. Perhaps the Ceremonial even suggests the Alleluia be repeated. That’s somewhere we haven’t looked, and it would certainly explain why the Holy Father allows this practice, as well as Abp. Burke.
 
PKinsale said:
I have heard the Alleluia repeated after the Gospel at the cathedral of the Archdiocese of St. Louis, in the presence of our beloved prior archbishop, who was no slacker when it came to the liturgy. The GIRM may be the law, but I do not think it was intended to cover every specific possibility that may be allowed elsewhere.
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That doesn’t change the fact that anything not permitted by the GIRM/Sacramentary (and authoritative interpretations of them) is indeed forbidden. There’s no way around this. No amount of arguing and obfuscating is going to change that.

That is precisely why the Sacramentary and the GIRM make specific mention of those many times in the Mass when the priest may indeed use “these or similar words” or may compose a prayer more suitable to the circumstances (like the general intercessions), or may briefly interject his own words by way of explanation or introduction.

That’s the frustrating part. The very people who insist on composing their own liturgical practices ignore the legitimate options given to them and instead change that which cannot be changed. If they exercised the legitimate options given, I would have no objection (I might not like them, but I would not object to them). Sadly, that’s not what is happening.
 
Well, in St. Louis the alleluia was used to fil lthe space between when the Gospel is completed and the archbishop arrives at the pulpit. Apparently it has papal precedent:

ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur197.htm

For example, when Pope John Paul II celebrated the vigil Mass of Pentecost that concluded Rome’s diocesan Synod in 1993, the alleluia was repeated while the Book of the Gospels was brought to him. The alleluia was also repeated after the Gospel on the occasion of Benedict XVI’s solemn inaugural Mass. It is also repeated on a more regular basis for some Masses such as Corpus Christi.
 
FrDavid96 said:
That doesn’t change the fact that anything not permitted by the GIRM/Sacramentary (and authoritative interpretations of them) is indeed forbidden. There’s no way around this. No amount of arguing and obfuscating is going to change that.

That is precisely why the Sacramentary and the GIRM make specific mention of those many times in the Mass when the priest may indeed use “these or similar words” or may compose a prayer more suitable to the circumstances (like the general intercessions), or may briefly interject his own words by way of explanation or introduction.

That’s the frustrating part. The very people who insist on composing their own liturgical practices ignore the legitimate options given to them and instead change that which cannot be changed. If they exercised the legitimate options given, I would have no objection (I might not like them, but I would not object to them). Sadly, that’s not what is happening.
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It does get very frustrating. When people do things liturgically different and their defense is a document made by a USCCB committee which has no authority to go against RS, GIRM etc. (ex changing of Lamb of God) and the paster follows along because he think it has authority or is scared of telling the music director no.
 
Papal Precedent isn’t an acceptable reason to do something in the liturgy not proscribed in the rubrics. However, none of us have checked the Ceremonial of Bishops, which may very well grant permission for the double Alleluia during the time when the Gospel Book is processed back to the Bishop for him to bless the people with.
 
MusicMan said:
I’m sorry, but the General Instruction of the Roman Missal is the liturgical law of the Church for the celebration of the Mass. If you cannot cite a passage that gives you the option of singing the Alleluia again after the Gospel, then you may not do so. The GIRM (along with Redemptoris Sacramentum, a clarification document of sorts) is the final word on the liturgy, supplanting the wishes and desires of the musicians, the pastor, and even the bishop. Period.
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I am curious to what degree this realy is the case. Are there not specific instructions in the Missal (and other official publications) itself that are more detailed than the GIRM? It is not the complete “how to” guide for saying a Mass.
 
PKinsale said:
I am curious to what degree this realy is the case. Are there not specific instructions in the Missal (and other official publications) itself that are more detailed than the GIRM? It is not the complete “how to” guide for saying a Mass.
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The GIRM is the instructions. One could say the the Missal is the “what” while the GIRM is the “how”. The Missal itself sometimes gives options but the GIRM tells the celebrant when and how to use them.

I believe the whole text of the Missal is contained in the GIRM so I don’t see how the Missal could have more detailed instructions.
 
PKinsale said:
I am curious to what degree this realy is the case. Are there not specific instructions in the Missal (and other official publications) itself that are more detailed than the GIRM? It is not the complete “how to” guide for saying a Mass.
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Yes. It is very much the complete how to guide. The Sacramentary and the GIRM are all that’s necessary.

The “Missal” and the “Sacramentary” are two words for the same thing. The next printing of the Sacramentary will be called “The Missal” (there is a subtle difference between these 2 words, but that’s not germane to the thread). On the other hand, the missalettes are NOT an authoritative source, nor are the “Sunday Missals” that many Catholics find very useful and good. They’re a good thing to have, but they have no authority.

There are documents that interpret these, but an interpretation can never replace the law; in fact, if it contradicts the law, it’s not a legitimate interpretation. The Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum is an interpretation of those laws, and has the personal authority of the late Pope John Paul II himself, therefore no one may argue that RS is not binding (some think they can disregard it).

Depending upon which printing of the Sacramentary is being used (and for purely practical purposes, any one from 1974 on will suffice), a different version of the GIRM might be in the first few pages. That’s why a parish must rely on the Sacramentary itself and the current version of the GIRM.
 
The GIRM is the “Rulebook.” The Sacramentary is the “Rulebook” expanded with the texts of the Mass. The Lectionary is the Scriptural textbook. Any additional directions contained in the Sacramentary or Lectionary will not be contrary to or contain additional options over what is contained in the GIRM.

In this case, an option to sing the double Alleluia would not be found in the Lectionary but not the GIRM.

The Ceremonial of Bishops, as I understand, is an unique addition to the GIRM that allows episcopal options not contained in the GIRM due to the unique nature of the Masses celebrated by Bishops.
 
Corki said:
The GIRM is the instructions. One could say the the Missal is the “what” while the GIRM is the “how”. The Missal itself sometimes gives options but the GIRM tells the celebrant when and how to use them.

I believe the whole text of the Missal is contained in the GIRM so I don’t see how the Missal could have more detailed instructions.
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A parish or priest must rely on both. There are times when one or the other is more specific.
 
But aren’t there other (commercially available) publications that have instructions for specific circumstances, such as RCIA rites or those for various sacraments, that are NOT found in either the GIRM or in the Sacramentary.

(I have no idea if the “parenthetical Alleluias” are described in such a publication.)
 
SMHW said:
But aren’t there other (commercially available) publications that have instructions for specific circumstances, such as RCIA rites or those for various sacraments, that are NOT found in either the GIRM or in the Sacramentary.

(I have no idea if the “parenthetical Alleluias” are described in such a publication.)
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Yes and no. Each of the Sacraments has its own liturgical books, also funerals and RCIA etc… The entire collection of such liturgical books are in harmony with each other. One would never contradict the other (unless a more recent printing of one includes some recent changes) Something might be spelled out in the RCIA in more detail than in the Sacramentary for example.

The books complement each other. The Sacramentary says that the Gospel is read “here” but one needs to actually read the Gospel from the Lectionary.

The problem here in this thread is that people feel that they can rely on non-authoritative books or other non-authoritative sources to make changes to the Mass which the Church has not approved. That’s the problem. The people who print missalettes or who offer suggestions for changes to the Mass in magazines or newsletters are not the ones who have any authority to make changes to the Mass. This causes no end of confusion among Catholics. Many Catholics feel for example, that if a variation of the Lamb of God is printed in the Missalette, that means that it has been approved for use in the Mass. That’s simply not the case. The same holds true for ritual actions in the Mass. If it hasn’t been approved by the Church (and ultimately that means it needs the approval of the Holy See), or the Holy See has not specifically approved that something different may be said or done in a particular place, then doing so is never acceptable.

Just because something is commercially available, doesn’t mean that we can trust it. Take an example from the secular world. A person might buy a book on tax preparation. That book might offer some information which is not in harmony with the tax code. Such a person would not present the book to the IRS and say, in effect, this is the book that defines how I do my taxes, and I am at liberty to ignore the tax code because of it. You know what would happen in such a case. That’s what is happening with the Mass.

The real question here is “where is the second Alleluia described?” Omitting it from the Sacramentary or Lectionary would be a very unusaul thing for the Church to do if it is indeed approved. Perhaps it’s in the Pontifical because it applies only to a Mass celebrated by the bishop. I don’t know. But what I do know is that if such a thing were indeed allowed in a Mass celebrated by a parish priest, it’s safe to say that it would be included in the Sacramentary, GIRM, or Lectionary.
 
Just another twist to this. For whatever reason at our church they ceased doing the double alleluia during Advent only to return to it in Ordinary time. I have spoke to our Deacon who is on the liturgical committee and he refer to something about singing while returning the book. I’m not sue where the book is suppose to go.
 
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