Is Islam really monotheistic?

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To all Law-abiding Judeo-Catholic-Christians:

Deuteronomy 7:25-26
Douay Rheims Bible

25 Their graven things [Idols, so called by contempt] **thou shalt burn with fire: thou shalt not covet the silver and gold of which they are made, neither shalt thou take to thee any thing thereof, lest thou offend, because it is an abomination to the Lord thy God. **

26 Neither shalt thou bring any thing of the idol into thy house, lest thou become an anathema, like it. Thou shalt detest it as dung, and shalt utterly abhor it as uncleanness and filth, because it is an anathema.

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=5&ch=7&l=26&f=s#x
Deuteronomy 7:25-26
The New American Bible

25 The images of their gods you shall destroy by fire. Do not covet the silver or gold on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

26 You shall not bring any abominable thing into your house, lest you be doomed with it; loathe and abhor it utterly as a thing that is doomed.

usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy7.htm

**abhor it utterly ** = detest it as dung ??

​

What precise word is used here in the “original” Hebrew Torah?
 
freedomm, you’re doing the same thing here as in other threads, and just like you’ve done before - posted a completely unrelated slab of text from the Old Testament no less. what are you playing at by doing this?
 
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LilyM:
freedomm, you’re doing the same thing here as in other threads, and just like you’ve done before - posted a **completely unrelated slab of text ** from the Old Testament no less. what are you playing at by doing this?
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Dear LilyM:

Before calling Old Testament’s verses "completely unrelated slab of text", ponder on some of the reported**‘beautitudes’** of Jesus Christ, by Matthew in Chapter 5:

17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, that unless your justice [righteousness] abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

As per Douay Rehims Bibles:

"*Amen"… That is, assuredly of a truth. This Hebrew word, amen, is here retained by the example and authority of all the four Evangelists. It is used by our Lord as a strong asseveration, and affirmation of the truth *

21 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.

22 **But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. **

— Matthew 5:17 - 22
​

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=5&l=17&f=s#x

So, as per Matthew 5, did Jesus say that he came to change the Law/the Prophets or to fulfill?

From verse 22, it is clear that he seems to add **more harshness ** to the Law of Torah by retaining the Law of Torah, let alone ceasing or changing it.

As per verse 21 “whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment” prior to the advent/ministry of Jesus Christ but after him, "whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment.

So the reason for getting into the danger of judgement:

Killing or mere anger??​
 
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freedomm:
Dear LilyM:

Before calling Old Testament’s verses "completely unrelated slab of text", ponder on some of the reported**‘beautitudes’** of Jesus Christ, by Matthew in Chapter 5:

17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you, that unless your justice [righteousness] abound more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

As per Douay Rehims Bibles:

“Amen”… That is, assuredly of a truth. This Hebrew word, amen, is here retained by the example and authority of all the four Evangelists. It is used by our Lord as a strong asseveration, and affirmation of the truth

21 You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not kill. And whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.

22 But I say to you, that whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council. And whosoever shall say, Thou Fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

— Matthew 5:17 - 22
​

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=5&l=17&f=s#x

So, as per Matthew 5, did Jesus say that he came to change the Law/the Prophets or to fulfill?

From verse 22, it is clear that he seems to add **more harshness ** to the Law of Torah by retaining the Law of Torah, let alone ceasing or changing it.

As per verse 21 “whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment” prior to the advent/ministry of Jesus Christ but after him, "whosoever is angry with his brother, shall be in danger of the judgment.

So the reason for getting into the danger of judgement:

Killing or mere anger??​
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freedomm, the subject of this thread is whether Islam is monotheistic or whether Muslims in fact worship Mohammed or the Koran as separate gods as well. Your quotes of both Old and New Testament (which I HAVE read before by the way, thank you very much) have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. If you want the thread closed for going off topic fine, but be aware that if you keep this up it will indeed be closed.
 
The verses I qouted ( i.e., Deuteronomy 7:25-26 and Matthew 5:17 - 22 ) have an indirect relation/link to the subject of monotheism.
In order to understand what infact monotheism is, you need to first understand what your own Judeo-Christian scriptures say on this subject (but by being critical), since you are coming from a Judeo-Christian background.
 
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freedomm:
Dear Reuben J:

No Muslim in his right mind will ever worship to the Ka’abah or the Holy Quran. It is against the Law of the very teachings of the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), to worship anything besides ALLAH who is THE CREATOR of ALL.

By the way not every Muslim is required to go to the Ka’abah except those who have means to go there and can leave enough money behind to his family while he is out for Hajj or 'Umrah.

Then the whole purpose of the Holy Quran is to recite and apply it’s Divine Message/Law in daily life and not to decore the Holy Quran and keep in a shelf. Without the application of it’s contents, the Islamic Way of Life (Addeen) cannot be acheived. So there is no question at all to worship the Book.

Surah 17: Verse 9

**Verily this Qur’an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward; **

. . . . .
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Thank you freedomm for the clarification. I understand what you are saying and that Muslims don’t worship those things. You see, it’s a matter of definition, and you are justified in saying so. There is no reason for me to contradict you in your belief and your understanding of it.

Other people from different religous background though may see it differently and see Muslims practice as regards to the Kaabah may be construed as worship. If you don’t have to go there, why make it as the five pillars? Why do Muslims have to kiss the stone? Why do they have to circle around it? True not all Muslims can afford to go there, but still it is required of Muslims who can afford it, right? If it’s a divine call to go there, then there must be merit spiritually to make this pilgrimage. If I have not heard your explanation, in my mind there seem to be very thin grey area to distinguish whether it constitute as an act of worship or not. In other word, nearly indistinguishable. 🙂

Peace.

Reuben.
 
yes islam is monotheistic, but we always see mohammad’s name linked to Allah…to be a muslim, you don’t say : i believe that there is one allah, but you should add: and mohammas is his messenger.

my question is : the quran is claimed to be written on a tablet in heaven…what does this mean?
 
Reuben J:
Thank you freedomm for the clarification. I understand what you are saying and that Muslims don’t worship those things. You see, it’s a matter of definition, and you are justified in saying so. There is no reason for me to contradict you in your belief and your understanding of it.

Other people from different religous background though may see it differently and see Muslims practice as regards to the Kaabah may be construed as worship. If you don’t have to go there, why make it as the five pillars? Why do Muslims have to kiss the stone? Why do they have to circle around it? True not all Muslims can afford to go there, but still it is required of Muslims who can afford it, right? If it’s a divine call to go there, then there must be merit spiritually to make this pilgrimage. If I have not heard your explanation, in my mind there seem to be very thin grey area to distinguish whether it constitute as an act of worship or not. In other word, nearly indistinguishable. 🙂

Peace.

Reuben.
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Muslims go to Mecca to show unity and show that they are all the same before God. I have seen MANY people who went to Mecca and came back completely changed. They became a better person and more devout. Look at Malcolm X. Here are couple of quotes from hi “Letter from Mecca” :
  • "Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and the overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as practiced by people of all colors and races here in this Ancient Holy Land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad and all other prophets of the Holy Scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors. "
    "There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue eyed blonds to black skin Africans. But we were all participating in the same rituals, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had lead me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.
America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have considered ‘white’ – but the ‘white’ attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.

"*
you can read the entire letter from: hometown.aol.com/klove01/meccaltr.htm
 
There are 200 million black Catholics in Africa. You will find Catholics of every color and culture. Islam has nothing on us when it comes to this kind of unity.
 
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cestusdei:
There are 200 million black Catholics in Africa. You will find Catholics of every color and culture. Islam has nothing on us when it comes to this kind of unity.
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I believe aliens (on mars and other planets) also worship the same God. Jesus our lord and saviour! 😃
 
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cestusdei:
There are 200 million black Catholics in Africa. You will find Catholics of every color and culture. Islam has nothing on us when it comes to this kind of unity.
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Was there any Darkest Skin African or Dark Skin South Indian Pope ever, eversince your Church came into existence?

FYI, in Muslim history, there was a period of Mumlook also.
 
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Muslim:
Muslims go to Mecca to show unity and show that they are all the same before God. I have seen MANY people who went to Mecca and came back completely changed. They became a better person and more devout. Look at Malcolm X. you can read the entire letter from: hometown.aol.com/klove01/meccaltr.htm
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I don’t doubt Malcom X life changing experience, and for that matter the millions of Muslims throughout the centuries who undergone similar experiences while performing the pilgrimage to Mecca. But is this surprising? Certainly not! Is this unique to Islam only? Certainly not, too. Christians will tell you same thing while going for pilgrimages, attending conferences and seminars. Sometimes lives are changed through direct revelations from God or His agents.

What we are talking here is about Islam strict interpretation of monotheism. Thus by its standard and logic, I am surprised that you people should pray towards the Kaaba, go there, kiss it and so on. And this is all done because of divine command.

As for the Quran, show some disrespect, and you will have Muslims call for punishment, punishment by death if they can have it. Put up some purported drawings of Prophet Muhammad, and you will have Muslims willing to give up their lives and the lives of the perpetrators in their thirst for revenge.

I understand that Muslims don’t worship those things as explained by freedomm. But going by this same standard and logic, are Muslims willing to accept that people of other religions who might be doing similar things, in some cases even less, do not necessarily worship them either?
 
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inJESUS:
yes islam is monotheistic, but we always see mohammad’s name linked to Allah…to be a muslim, you don’t say : i believe that there is one allah, but you should add: and mohammas is his messenger.
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Dear inJESUS:

When we say ‘There is no god but God (Allah), Muhammed is Prophet/Messenger of Allah’, we mean to testify that we believe in what Last Prophet of God (Allah) has asked us to believe based on our Creator–Allah’s command/Revelation.

Now you may ask, what Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) say about other Prophets such as Prophet Eisa (Jesus)-PBUH?

Well, rejecting Prophethood of any Prophet of God (PBUH), is like rejecting all Prophets of God. Let’s say if I, after believing in Islam, deny the Prophethood of Eisa (Jesus)-(PBUH) or Prophethood of Mosa (Moses)-(PBUH), then** I am not a Muslim anymore**. Why? Because one of main articles of Islam’s faith is:

“Amantu billahi wa mala’ikatihi, wa kutubihi, wa rusulihi, wal yawmil akhiri, wal qadri khairihi wa sharrihi minallahi ta’ala, wal ba’thi ba’dal mawt.”

which means:

I believe in Allah, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Last Day [Day of Judgement] and in the fact that everything good or bad is decided by Allah the Almighty, and in the life-after-death.

Thus it is very important to keep in mind the whole context of Muslim faith.

So, when we say Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) is Messenger of Allah right after declaring the Unity of Allah, it does not mean we are linking his human personality to Allah.

If Prophet Eisa (Jesus)-PBUH, were happened to be the Last Prophet instead of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), we would have been reciting Prophet Eisa’s name in our final Kalimah.

And it is also **very important ** to know that Muslims are required not to make any distinction between the Prophets of God. Why? Because each and every Prophet of God was choosen by God and not by the people. They were not political leaders elected or selected by some bunch of people or nation. Judging their status is a Allah’s job and not ours, so we are told by Allah through Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) in the Holy Quran in:

Suran Al-Imran [3:84]

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

** Say: “We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Eisa(Jesus), and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them,** and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam).”

See also Surah 2:136 and 2:285
But what Muslim will not believe is what people attribute **from their own ** to the personalities of any Prophet of God.

The whole essence of all previous Prophets of God is already Revealed and included in the Last Testament of God (The Holy Quran), thus there is no need to look back once you accept the Holy Quran.

All previous Prophets’ missions were time bound and their Revelations were meant for their specific nations only. But the Holy Quran is meant for whole mankind thus it is Last and Final Message and there will be no new Prophet to come till the Last Day of this Earth.
      • -
For details:
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundame…tropillars.html
witness-pioneer.org

For misconceptions:

witness-pioneer.org/Dawa…ption/book2.pdf
 
yes yes i know this…but to become muslim, you don’t say i believe in allah and his prophets, you should specify mohammad…my point is that nowhere in the Bible do you fing God asking prophets to declare : i bbelieve there is one God and Moses is his prophet or Isaiah is his prophet…this seems a “privilege” to mohammmad just like his booty and women privileges…everything to mohammad: women, money and importance…you even find a soura (chapter) in quran called “mohammad”.
 
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inJESUS:
yes yes i know this…but to become muslim, you don’t say i believe in allah and his prophets, you should specify mohammad…my point is that nowhere in the Bible do you fing God asking prophets to declare : i bbelieve there is one God and Moses is his prophet or Isaiah is his prophet…this seems a “privilege” to mohammmad just like his booty and women privileges…everything to mohammad: women, money and importance…you even find a soura (chapter) in quran called “mohammad”.
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you believe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the LAST Prophet…there is a difference.
 
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Muslim:
you believe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the LAST Prophet…there is a difference.
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so because he is the “last prophet”, allah grants him money, women , more importance and a whole soura called “mohammad”…mmmm seems like allah thinks in human terms…but Jesus who is born miraculously, who did miracles, who is called “God’s spirit” and “God’s word”, who is not dead and who will come back again had neither money nor women nor a title like i believe in God and Jesus is His prophet…mmmm sounds a very inconsistent deity and very discrimitating…will God fall to the level of granting women as “privileges” on earth and virgins in heaven? a person who gives women to men as “privileges” has a well-known adjective and by no means respects women but considers them as “reward”. Indeed, this is the projection of a sinful mind.
 
We have had African popes, Syrian popes, all kinds, but no Americans…yet. But in Saudi Arabia those who are black do not get the same treatment as others. There is a subtle racism in Islam. But I am rooting for Cardinal Arinze to someday become pope.
 
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