Is Islam really monotheistic?

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cestusdei:
freed,
Malcom X himself evidenced reverse racism for much of his life. In Saudi Arabia those with dark skin are the descendents of slaves. They were freed about 50 years ago. They live in poverty to this day. In Sudan the black people tend to be Christian and are persecuted by the northern Arab tribes who are…Muslim
Dear cestusdei

You are talking nonsense. Islam and Muslim are two different terms.

It is only Islam which is totally against racism. People of all colours have same rights in Islam. Criterion for distinction is due to piety only:

Surah Al-Hujurat [49:13]

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ

**O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). **

You need to know first what Islam teaches and also in the history of Muslims, who were the Mamlook?

 
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Contarini:
If cestusdei’s point was simply that Islam also contains things that could be seen to nuance monotheism–in other words, that pure monotheism really doesn’t exist in any religion–then I think that’s a worthwhile argument. Otherwise this entire thread is a complete waste of time.
Edwin
I think that’s his point.
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cestusdei:
Part of the point of the thread was to make muslims think a bit. Also to point out what’s its like when we get accused of not being monotheists due to the Trinity. I thought they would enjoy being on the other side for once. They don’t seem to like it. Wonder of wonders. Of course in their countries I would already be dead for even asking the question.
Yes, I thought so. That’s why I pose those questions about the Kaaba, the Quran and Muhammad.

Muslims should not get away with double standard. They should be prepared to apply the standard of argument they impose on others to themselves. 🙂
 
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inJESUS:
Will anyone explain what is meant by : the quran was written on a tablet in heaven??
Dear inJESUS:

I think you are referring to Suratul-Burooj’s last ayah # 22:

Suratul-Burooj 85:12-22

إِنَّ بَطْشَ رَبِّكَ لَشَدِيدٌ
إِنَّهُ هُوَ يُبْدِئُ وَيُعِيدُ
وَهُوَ الْغَفُورُ الْوَدُودُ
ذُو الْعَرْشِ الْمَجِيدُ
فَعَّالٌ لِّمَا يُرِيدُ
هَلْ أَتَاكَ حَدِيثُ الْجُنُودِ
فِرْعَوْنَ وَثَمُودَ
بَلِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فِي تَكْذِيبٍ
وَاللَّهُ مِن وَرَائِهِم مُّحِيطٌ
بَلْ هُوَ قُرْآنٌ مَّجِيدٌ
فِي لَوْحٍ مَّحْفُوظٍ

Suratul-Burooj 85:12-22

**VERILY, thy Sustainer’s grip is exceedingly strong!
Behold, it is He who creates [man] in the first instance, and He [it is who] will bring him forth anew.
And He alone is truly-forgiving, all-embracing in His love,
in sublime almightiness enthroned,
a sovereign doer of whatever He wills.
HAS IT ever come within thy ken, the story of the [sinful] hosts
of Pharaoh, and of [the tribe of] Thamud?
And yet, they who are bent on denying the truth persist in giving it the lie:
but all the while God encompasses them [with His knowledge and might] without their being aware of it.
Nay, but this [divine writ which they reject] is a discourse sublime,
upon an imperishable tablet ** [inscribed].

An imperishable tablet : That is, "The writ of the Qur’an is unchangeable and imperishable. It is inscribed in the Preserved Tablet of God. which cannot he corrupted in any way Whatever is written in it, has to be fulfilled: even the whole world together cannot avert its fulfilment.

To many commentators the phrase has always had a metaphorical meaning: namely, an allusion to the imperishable quality of this divine writ. This interpretation is pointedly mentioned as justified by, e.g., Tabari, Baghawi, Razi or Ibn Kathir, all of whom agree that the phrase “upon a well-guarded tablet” relates to God’s promise that the Qur’an would never be corrupted, and would remain free of all arbitrary additions, diminutions and textual changes. [From M. Asad and Assyid Mawdoodi’s commentries]

 
thx freedom…so i understand that muslims believe that the qur’an is an identical copy of the eternal heavenly book, even so far as the punctuation, titles and divisions of chapters are concerned?
in other words, the quran is the earthly copy of an eternal one?
 
Reuben J:
I think that’s his point.

Yes, I thought so. That’s why I pose those questions about the Kaaba, the Quran and Muhammad.

Muslims should not get away with double standard. They should be prepared to apply the standard of argument they impose on others to themselves. 🙂
we dont pray to Mohammad (pbuh) or any other Prophets. We dont pray to the Kaaba or any other objects. we dont believe you can reach God thru Mohammed (pbuh) or any other people but yourself. We don’t believe any body or any object is God… therefore I have no idea what you guys are talking about. this is the first time i actually heard someone ask if Islam is monotheistic and from a CATHOLIC too. wow.
 
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Muslim:
we dont pray to Mohammad (pbuh) or any other Prophets. We dont pray to the Kaaba or any other objects. we dont believe you can reach God thru Mohammed (pbuh) or any other people but yourself. We don’t believe any body or any object is God… therefore I have no idea what you guys are talking about. this is the first time i actually heard someone ask if Islam is monotheistic and from a CATHOLIC too. wow.
we know that islam is monotheistic…the original question have some subtleties…like if Catholics have statues they are pagans…ecc…He now reversed the question to prove a point.

Since you knew now about “written on a tablet”, can you answer my question to Freedom please?
 
Eden said:
Why did Muhammad pray towards Jerusalem for the first 5 years of his prophethood, and later redirect his prays towards Mecca?
Because Allah told him to.
And did Jesus pray towards Mecca or Jerusalem 5 times a day?
No, the commandment to pray 5 times a day came during the prophethood of Mohamed, not Jesus.

The messengers all preached the same basic foundation of belief: There is one God, and only He is worthy of worship. That was the mission of every messenger sent to their particular nation, to establish that belief which we Muslims call tawheed, or the oneness of Allah.

The details of how to pray, which direction to face, how to fast, how to make the pilgrimmage, etc. are not important at all if that foundation is not solid.
 
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inJESUS:
yes after mohammad wished for it…the question is : since God does everything with a purpose, what is the purpose of abrogating a verse so quickly?if he knew it was the Kaaba, why then command Jerusalem first…
Dear inJESUS:

The problem I noticed in posts is you pick certain individual elements of Islam out of their context/background and then try to make a point to justify your pre-conceived ideas. [Don’t forget that I know the real source of your “knowledge” of Islam, i.e., those deceptive missionaries “arguements” floating on the Internet, that are actually meant to keep ignorants in their ignorance and to those ignorants who love to remian in their ignorance.]

This attitude of yours only make people laugh at you. Because what you are doing is discrading the whole intrinsic relationship of those individual issues that are not supposed to be seperated form their various context/background.

Your approach/attitude is like of an ignorant of surgery process, who after seeing scissors and knives on a surgeon’s table, started claiming that that surgeon is actually a barbor or butcher.

Let me give you an example:

In a well structured building not everything may appear proper. Some elements may appear to you awkward. But in reality the form of the building is at the mercy of it’s function and not necessarily the vice versa.

Form must follow it’s fucntion otherwise building is going to collapse, if you try to fix all elements according to your desire/wish.

Now, you may ask what is the ‘function’? The function is unchangeable laws of nature. Sunnatillaah. It is already decreed. Thus your creation/handiwork must follow the rationale and wisdom of already decreed/fixed functionality. Because no matter how good or better creator you are, you are a creator and not the Creator.

The Creator is God who created everything in due proportion and gave us limited ability to create things from own purpose or wish but it is limited. Only God Has Free Will and what have is called free-choice. A choice to pick what is already Willed by God’s Absolute infinite dimensional Will.

From your limited insight of creativity you cannot judge the inifinte creativity of God. In order to fully understand the whole rationality and Wisdom of God either you have to become like God or grasp His Whole Wisdom in your tiny mind. But since it is impossible for you to become God nor you can grasp the inifinite knwoledge of God, thus you may or may not understand even certain parts of His Wisdom.​

cont…
 
Dear inJESUS:

Coming to Islam, it is certain that God sent Prophets to this world to guide humanity. It is obvious that you did not create yourself. God created you with a purpose then he did not leave you to wander in vain.

When first man appeared on earth, obviously there were no tall buildings or Paramids or Taj Mahal or Pissa tower or Eiffel Tower on the face of this earth. Everything developed, move forward and sometimes moved back due to our own adopted destructive ways.

In the course of this gradual evolution and sudden de-evolution at the same time, Prophets of God whose Messages’ Essence was always ONE, adopted certain ways to rectify ills or norms or evil attitudes of human society in order to put back humanity on right course/path of God that eventually leads to Good consequence.

During this course certain element or forms may appear to you strange but you have to keep in mind the rationale of them.

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:148

وَلِكُلٍّ وِجْهَةٌ هُوَ مُوَلِّيهَا فَاسْتَبِقُواْ الْخَيْرَاتِ أَيْنَ مَا تَكُونُواْ يَأْتِ بِكُمُ اللّهُ جَمِيعًا إِنَّ اللّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

2:148 for, every community faces a direction of its own, of which He is the focal point. Vie, therefore, with one another in doing good works. Wherever you may be, God will gather you all unto Himself: for, verily, God has the power to will anything.

Now listen to M. Asad:

Lit., “everyone has a direction. . .”, etc. Almost all of the classical commentators, from the Companions of the Prophet downwards, interpret this as a reference to the various religious communities and their different modes of “turning towards God” in worship. Ibn Kathir, in his commentary on this verse, stresses its inner resemblance to the phrase occurring in 5:48 :

وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الخَيْرَاتِ إِلَى الله مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ

5:48 And unto thee [O Prophet] have We vouchsafed this divine writ, setting forth the truth, confirming the truth of whatever there still remains of earlier revelations and determining what is true therein. Judge, then, between the followers of earlier revelation in accordance with what God has bestowed from on high, and do not follow their errant views, forsaking the truth that has come unto thee. Unto every one of you have We appointed a [different] law and way of life. And if God had so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community: but [He willed it otherwise] in order to test you by means of what He has vouchsafed unto, you. Vie, then, with one another in doing good works! Unto God you all must return; and then He will make you truly understand all that on which you were wont to differ.

The statement that **“every community faces a direction of its own” **…​

cont…
 
Dear inJESUS:

The statement that **“every community faces a direction of its own” ** in its endeavour to express its submission to God implies, firstly, that at various times and in various circumstances man’s desire to approach God in prayer has taken different forms (e.g., Abraham’s choice of the Ka’bah as his qiblah. the Jewish concentration on Jerusalem, the eastward orientation of the early Christian churches, and the Qur’anic commandment relating to the Ka`bah); and, secondly, that the direction of prayer however important its symbolic significance may be-does not represent the essence of faith as such: for, as the Qur’an says:

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاء والضَّرَّاء وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ

Surah 2:177 It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah.fearing.

and,

وَلِلّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّواْ فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

2:115 And God’s is the east and the west: and wherever you turn, there is God’s countenance. Behold, God is infinite, all-knowing.

and:

سَيَقُولُ السُّفَهَاء مِنَ النَّاسِ مَا وَلاَّهُمْ عَن قِبْلَتِهِمُ الَّتِي كَانُواْ عَلَيْهَا قُل لِّلّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ

2:142 The weak-minded among people will say, “What has turned them away from the direction of prayer which they have hitherto observed?” Say: “God’s is the east and the west; He guides whom He wills onto a straight way.”

Consequently, the revelation which established the Ka`bah as the qiblah of the Muslims should not be a matter of contention for people of other faiths.


وَكَذَلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِّتَكُونُواْ شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلاَّ لِنَعْلَمَ مَن يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّن يَنقَلِبُ عَلَى عَقِبَيْهِ وَإِن كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلاَّ عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللّهُ وَمَا كَانَ اللّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَؤُوفٌ رَّحِيمٌ

2:143 Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.

Lit., an Ummat justly balanced, i.e., a community that keeps an equitable balance between extremes and is realistic in its appreciation of man’s nature and possibilities, rejecting both licentiousness and exaggerated asceticism. In tune with its oft-repeated call to moderation in every aspect of life, the Qur’an exhorts the believers not to place too great an emphasis on the physical and material aspects of their lives, but postulates, at the same time, that man’s urges and desires relating to this “life of the flesh” are God-willed and, therefore, legitimate.

On further analysis, the expression “a community of the middle way” might be said to summarize, as it were, the Islamic attitude towards the problem of man’s existence as such: a denial of the view that there is an inherent conflict between the spirit and the flesh, and a bold affirmation of the natural, God-willed unity in this twofold aspect of human life.

This balanced attitude…

cont…
 
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freedomm:
Dear inJESUS:

Coming to Islam, it is certain that God sent Prophets to this world to guide humanity…

Blablabla…Yakyakyak…
Come up with some thoughts of your own for once. No one cares about your canned “copy and paste” responses that you love to mechanically repeat.
 
Dear inJESUS:

This balanced attitude, peculiar to Islam, flows directly from the concept of God’s oneness and, hence, of the unity of purpose underlying all His creation: and thus, the mention of the “community of the middle way” at this place is a fitting introduction to the theme of the Ka`bah, a. symbol of God’s Oneness

Finally as Mawdoodi says:

"Those foolish people who did not have the sense to appreciate the true significance of this change began to raise different kinds of objections in order to create doubts in the minds of the Believers. Being narrow-minded, they thought that AIIah was confined to a particular point or direction and the change of giblah meant turning away from Him. This absurd objection has been removed by the declaration that east, west and all other directions belong to Allah. The fact that the Qiblah lies in a certain direction does not mean that Allah is confined to that direction only. Those people who are blessed with guidance cannot entertain such narrow ideas.

"The real thing that matters is not the direction of the face at prayer but those virtues which are to be gained by offering the prayer. Hence the thing that really matters is the spirit and real purpose of the Prayer and not any particular direction or place.
 
exoflare said:
[/indent]

Come up with some thoughts of your own for once. No one cares about your canned “copy and paste” responses that you love to mechanically repeat.

My post contain my own words plus qoutes of others to show what is being said on this issue in their own scholarly words. The reason sometiimes it becomes necessary to qoute because they all may not be available at one place or in one particular site or a book. If you are NOT interested in reading, then you don’t have to participate in the dialogue/debate.
 
Freedom, i asked a very easy question…you repliied with 4 pages but did not reply to my question. Am asking about the inconsistency of allah’s message , that is, abrogations within a very short limit, which we find very doubtful from an all-knowing God.
 
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