Is Islam responsible for 9/11?

[upant]

the poster limited it to American soil and obviously it is a reference to individual gun violence. it is a pro-gun control argument

440,095 people died by firearms on US soil.

 

[englands123]

Religion had no part in the wickedness of those involved.

Let me explain a simple point on humans.

There’s a prison cell with a simple plain bunk bed inside.

Two grown men will argue and possibly fight to the death for the top bunk.

This has nothing to do with Greed, Religion, Race or Politics…

Humans are humans and children do the same…

 

[englands123]

Things will never ever change until the Lord returns. Humans as a whole are very wicked.

That has nothing to do with any religion !!

I can see why Jesus became so frustrated with humans.

 

[upant]

Religion had no part in the wickedness of those involved.

this is not true

read the book, review the history of the religion, listen to the books teachers

being PC only enables the submission

 

[englands123]

I would never read the Quran because it’s totally against my catholic faith.

I know many Muslims and none condoned what evil took place sorry.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) Eric_Hyom:

If Islam is responsible for 3,412 deaths, who is responsible for the other 430,000 deaths in America?

It seems American ideology is far more dangerous than Islamic ideology.

When you do a risk assessment, you look at the odds of something happening. It seems you are a thousand times more likely to get killed by a non - Islamist in America, than you are by an Islamic terrorist.

but you have an agenda to push

Numbers are numbers, read whatever you like from them.

 

[upant]

I would never read the Quran because it’s totally against my catholic faith.

then how do you claim

Religion had no part in the wickedness of those involved.

if you do not know what the book commands?

I know many Muslims and none condoned what evil took place sorry.

the reason for this could be in the book or hadith as well

When you do a risk assessment, you look at the odds of something happening. It seems you are a thousand times more likely to get killed by a non - Islamist in America, than you are by an Islamic terrorist.

what does this have to do with 9/11 and whether Islam is responsible?

Numbers are numbers, read whatever you like from them.

most people do, my objection is how the count is taken. who defines what counts?

 

[SaberBob]

Englands123,

Take yours prison cell example, one of the prisoners is a Quaker, the other is a member of the the Aryan Nations. Who is more likely to initiate violence over the desired bunk?

Beliefs DO affect behavior, including religious beliefs. It is only self-imposed Sharia that makes people say Islam doesn’t in regards to Jihad of all varieties, including 9/11.

 

[LilyM]

Englands123,

Take yours prison cell example, one of the prisoners is a Quaker, the other is a member of the the Aryan Nations. Who is more likely to initiate violence over the desired bunk?

Beliefs DO affect behavior, including religious beliefs. It is only self-imposed Sharia that makes people say Islam doesn’t in regards to Jihad of all varieties, including 9/11.

Absolutely - but imagine you have an official “book” of Aryan Nation beliefs which commands violence, an official “book” of Quaker beliefs which commands pacifism. However, you have individuals in the cell who in each case condemn those particular beliefs and in fact condemn their fellow Quakers and Aryan Nation members for holding them, then you’ll find the Quaker may well be equally or more likely to initiate violence.

 

[LilyM]

Englands123,

Take yours prison cell example, one of the prisoners is a Quaker, the other is a member of the the Aryan Nations. Who is more likely to initiate violence over the desired bunk?

Beliefs DO affect behavior, including religious beliefs. It is only self-imposed Sharia that makes people say Islam doesn’t in regards to Jihad of all varieties, including 9/11.

Weren’t you the poster who raised the example of how the majority of Catholics use artificial contraception despite the Church being abundantly clear in its condemnation of such? So to what extent can it truly be said that the official teachings of a religion influence the behaviour of its adherents? Especially religions like both Islam and Catholicism where the majority are cultural members of the faith more than firmly convicted adherents?

Belief matters, but the belief of the individual adherent is what is far far more likely to determine behaviour than anything else.

 

[Niblo]

If only taxation could prevent rebellion…the U.S.of A. might still be British colony!

I’m sure you are not suggesting that only Islamic regimes abuse their power.

 

[Niblo]

Yup…my wife criticises me all the time!

 

[Niblo]

Peace be upon you.

And thank you for the opinion, I have many former Muslim siblings and parents myself. I came from one of those Islamic country (currently live somewhere else), and your explanation of Jizya is incorect. I guarantee you 100%, there is not even a single synagogue exist in present day (at least from Arab country where i came from). Indeed, there are some mixed Jews but convert to Islam. If there is a Jewish (by religion), she/he would be dead instantly by either civilians nor authority. There are some Christians, but operessed in day to day life and the jizya is ridicolously high.

So, if one not paying jizya, the only option is kill him/her. That’s not a peaceful religion at all and the fact is, that’s a source of radical terorism in the name of Allah and Muhammad SAW.

Peace be with you also.

With respect, I did not give an ‘opinion’. I stated a fact; namely that among non-Muslims the following were exempt from paying the tax: women; children; the elderly; the handicapped; the sick; monks; hermits; slaves; and the insane. I also stated that non-Muslim foreigners, whose residence in a Muslim State was temporary, were also exempt. I went on to state that non-Muslims who elected to join the State’s armed forces were also exempt.

The truth of my post is borne out by Muhammad Abdel Haleem, King Fahd Professor of Islamic Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, who writes:

‘The jizya was one dīnār a year for every able-bodied male who could fight in the army – monks were exempted. As non-Muslims they were not obliged to fight for the Muslim armies. This is a liberal attitude, which recognised that it would be unfair to enlist people who do not believe in Islam to fight for the Muslim state, something which their own religion and conscience might not allow them to do.

The jizya was their contribution to the defence of the Islamic state they lived in. Muslims, on the other hand, were obliged to serve in the army, and all Muslims had to pay the much higher zakāt tax, part of which is spent on defence. When non-Muslims chose to serve in the Muslim army they were exempted from the jizya, and when the Muslim state could not defend certain subjects from whom they had collected jizya, it returned the jizya tax to them, giving this as a reason. In return for the jizya non-Muslims also enjoyed state social security.’ (‘Understanding the Qur’an – Themes and Styles’).

In the Princeton Encyclopedia of Islamic Thought we read that: ‘Free adult males who were not afflicted by any physical or mental illness were required to pay the jizya. Women, children, handicapped, the mentally ill, the elderly, and slaves were exempt, as were all travelers and foreigners who did not settle in Muslim lands.’

Continued:

 

[Niblo]

I stated that a Muslim leader who failed to provide his non-Muslim subjects with adequate security was obliged to refund the jizya they had paid.

Sir Thomas Walker Arnold writes:

‘The Emperor Heraclius had raised an enormous army with which to drive back the invading forces of the Muslims, who had in consequence to concentrate all their energies on the impending encounter. The Arab general, Abū ʻUbaydah, accordingly wrote to the governors of the conquered cities of Syria, ordering them to pay back all the jizyah that had been collected from the cities, and wrote to the people, saying, “We give you back the money that we took from you, as we have received news that a strong force is advancing against us. The agreement between us was that we should protect you, and as this is not now in our power, we return you all that we took. But if we are victorious we shall consider ourselves bound to you by the old terms of our agreement.” In accordance with this order, enormous sums were paid back out of the state treasury, and the Christians called down blessings on the heads of the Muslims, saying, "May God give you rule over us again and make you victorious over the Romans; had it been they, they would not have given us back anything, but would have taken all that remained with us.’ (‘[Preaching of Islam: A History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith).

Today, no Islamic country imposes the jizya. It is no longer applicable, due to Islamic and international law. This means that in Islamic countries all the people – regardless of their religion or status (citizen or visitor) – fall under the category of mu’ahids (contractually protected persons). The whole issue of jizya is irrelevant today.

You claim to have come from an Islamic country that does indeed enforce the jizya (according to you the tax is ‘ridiculously high’). Help me out here: Please let me have the name of this country, so that I can confirm the truth of what you say; so that I can prove you right.

 

[SaberBob]

Lily,

So, essentially you are claiming no religion, no philosophy, no ideology has any influence on human beings?

 

[LilyM]

Lily,

So, essentially you are claiming no religion, no philosophy, no ideology has any influence on human beings?

Of course not. But I am saying that it is stretching things to blame the whole of Islam - a religion of around a billion followers that has existed for 1500 years in hugely varied forms, some tolerant and aome not - for.the misdeeds of a small number of Muslims in the.modern day.

Similarly untenable as blaming the whole of Christianity for the misdeeds of the IRA or URC in Northern Ireland.

 

[SaberBob]

Lily,

Plainly put, we cannot say indifferent, lukeworm, or most especially, heretic-apostates of either Christianity or Islam say much of anything about either religion.

Both Faith’s foundational texts say what they say about the expected, even commanded beliefs and behaviors of their followers. The uncomfortable and inconvenient fact is many Christmas do not live anywhere close to those commands of Christ and the Apostles and THANKFULLY most Muslims do not live up to the the commands of the Koran and aHaddith. Call it religious sloth, ignorance, or just being morally better, but the decency of most Muslims is in SPITE of their professed faith and not because of it.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

But I am saying that it is stretching things to blame the whole of Islam

Agreed, and if Islam supported suicide bombing, there would be no Muslims left if they all followed their faith. Who would want to become a Muslim, if they believed they had to end their lives?

 

[Niblo]

Two priests who joined the IRA at the beginning of the Ulster Troubles were Father Patrick Fell and Father John Burns.

A Fr. Chesney was a member of the IRA unit that left three ‘no warning’ bombs in the Co Derry village of Claudy in July 1972. Nine people including three children were killed. His involvement in the massacre was discussed at a private meeting in December 1972 between the first Northern Ireland Secretary William Whitelaw and Cardinal William Conway, leader of Ireland’s Catholics.

One other priest, whose name escapes me, was the IRA’s officer commanding the Provos’ North Antrim Brigade.

 

[Niblo]

My sharpest memory of that time is hearing from a very good friend of mine (an Irish Sister of Mercy) of her veil being torn off…while being spat in the face…by some yob in London who decided to make her the object of his hatred of Catholics. Had I been there…

Many years later…while still a Catholic…I gained a friend whose in-laws (a father and his two sons) had been members of the UDF. It was a little weird to meet them!