Is it a liturgical abuse to have a Rock 'n Roll band in the Church sanctuary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marialis_Cultus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
First I’d say yes it would amount to abuse, to me Rock & Roll and Jesus don’t mix at Mass.
Marialis Cultus:
I think I read somewhere that Catholic churches are supposed to have the choir and musicians in a choir loft if they have one. This particular church has a choir loft but they weren’t using it that day.
Click to expand...
If anyone knows where this is stated in writing I’d love to know about it.

We have a choir loft in our church but we don’t use it for the choir. The choir is in the front 2 pews on the St. Joseph side. Every song they all get up and shuffle around and get into position. Then an elaborate production in the round. We are reduced to being just an audience. It really breaks up the flow of the Mass. Also the perfectly good organ sits collecting dust while the hymns are played on a little upright piano that sits right beside it. I heard it on Easter and not before or since.

I’d be more than happy to point Father to chapter & verse of something that tells us that these should be in the choir loft. Alot of loud clumping up and down the stairs as this is where the folding chairs are to accomodate the overflow.

Mike
 
The Tablet
http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/register.cgi/tablet-00936

9/18/2004
John Allen

At the Eighth International Church Music Congress in Rome in 1986, Ratzinger blasted rock music as a “vehicle of anti-religion”. He said rock and roll is a secular variant of an age-old ecstatic religion, in which man “lowers the barriers of individuality and personality” to “liberate himself from the burden of consciousness”. Rock is thus “the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the redemption”.
 
I have no problem with a rock band in the sanctuary as long as they are in the pews, on their knees, prayerfully in union with mass - while all their instruments and equipment wait for them in the van out in the parking lot.
 
40.png
ridesawhitehors:
I have no problem with a rock band in the sanctuary as long as they are in the pews, on their knees, prayerfully in union with mass - while all their instruments and equipment wait for them in the van out in the parking lot.
Click to expand...
Touche!
 
From the GIRM 2003 at the USCCB website
  1. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50
Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.51

*Movements and Posture

*42. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered.52 Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.

II. Arrangement of the Sanctuary for the Sacred Synaxis
(Eucharistic Assembly)
295. The sanctuary is the place where the altar stands, where the word of God is proclaimed, and where the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers exercise their offices. It should suitably be marked off from the body of the church either by its being somewhat elevated or by a particular structure and ornamentation. It should, however, be large enough to allow the Eucharist to be celebrated properly and easily seen.115

III. The Arrangement of the ChurchThe Places for the Faithful

*The Place for the Reservation of the Most Holy Eucharist
*
311. Places should be arranged with appropriate care for the faithful so that they are able to participate in the sacred celebrations visually and spiritually, in the proper manner. It is expedient for benches or seats usually to be provided for their use. The custom of reserving seats for private persons, however, is reprehensible.122 Moreover, benches or chairs should be arranged, especially in newly built churches, in such a way that the people can easily take up the postures required for the different parts of the celebration and can easily come forward to receive Holy Communion.

Care should be taken that the faithful be able not only to see the priest, the deacon, and the lectors but also, with the aid of modern technical means, to hear them without difficulty.

*The Place for the Choir and the Musical Instruments

*312. The choir should be positioned with respect to the design of each church so as to make clearly evident its character as a part of the gathered community of the faithful fulfilling a specific function. …
  1. In accordance with the structure of each church and legitimate local customs, the Most Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in a tabernacle in a part of the church that is truly noble, prominent, readily visible, beautifully decorated, and suitable for prayer.125
As you can easily see - the santuary is reserved for the altar, priest(s), deacon, and servers and is supposed to be VISIBLY SEPARATE FROM THE FAITHFUL!!
(the choir are a part of the faithful per the GIRM)

They are listed in the GIRM as SEPARATE PLACES. “The Sanctuary” and “The Church”

GIRM:
usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml

(Commanded by God, Himself, in scripture)
Print it out and bring it (with 2 or 3 other concerned people from your parish - especially the parish council and the music ministry) to your priest(s) and ask them to be obedient to the church they are supposed to be teaching YOU about.

Make a copy of the GIRM for all of them and circle the appropriate parts in red.

Be persistent. Many souls may depend on you.

Blessings,
Angel
 
What constitutes the ‘abuse’ is that it obviously contradicts the GIRM, which states that they are not to be in the sanctuary. Period. (see previous post)

That’s enough to get them out of there.

You’ve GOT to do it in writing first - give them 10 days to respond and then,
if it doesn’t change within 10 days after that, send copies of all letters to the bishop (same process - gotta give them 10 days), then to Rome.

Many believe we’ve got somebody ‘at the top’ who will address these issues in particular!

catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/dxdws.html
(Address of Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments)

The music itself has been brought to the lowest common denominator rather that the highest - which is what is called for in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass! We must offer the BEST of what we have!!

Are we a Cain or an Abel?

Talking here is nice, but if that’s all we do, we are offending God. We are the Church Militant - what does that call us to do?

To fight all abuses, sacriliges and to teach the faith to our friends and children - SO THAT WE MAY KNOW THE TRUTH!!!

So, pray, pray, pray and then go to your pastors, priests, bishops, cardinals and knock, knock, knock!

God help us,
Angel
 
One problem with this is that the term “rock” is being used very loosely, just as “classical” is used loosely in describing music. Bach and Handel’s music is called “classical” music and you hear it on the “classical” music station, but it is really Baroque music. Likewise, Beethoven’s music is considered “classical”, but much of it is technically classified as Romantic.
 
(in continuation of the above post)

It would be my contention that the term “rock” when used all by itself has a different meaning than “rock 'n roll”.

In contemporary music, a song might have a musical instruction at the beginning which reads: “With a rock beat”. In that narrow use, it is simply a term describing a general pattern of rhythm: tempo, accent, syncopation, etc.

However, if I speak of “rock 'n roll”, I am referring to more to the cultural phenomenon. It is identified with a certain style of music, lyrics, etc., but also with a way of life.

Certainly, “rock n’ roll” as cultural expression is not suited for the liturgy. But if we are going to say that “rock” – a certain general pattern of rhythm – is inappropriate, then we need to very specific about what this pattern of rhythm is. The same is true in terms of the chords and melodies used: if we are going to judge it inappropriate, then we need to identify and describe it.
 
40.png
Prometheum_x:
One problem with this is that the term “rock” is being used very loosely, just as “classical” is used loosely in describing music. Bach and Handel’s music is called “classical” music and you hear it on the “classical” music station, but it is really Baroque music. Likewise, Beethoven’s music is considered “classical”, but much of it is technically classified as Romantic.
Click to expand...
Yes – and wouldn’t the music of historic composers have been the “pop” music of THEIR time? If Mozart truly behaved in public the way he was portrayed in “Amadeus,” one can imagine the church fathers banning his music from their sanctuaries.
 
Prometheum_x said:
(in continuation of the above post)

It would be my contention that the term “rock” when used all by itself has a different meaning than “rock 'n roll”.

In contemporary music, a song might have a musical instruction at the beginning which reads: “With a rock beat”. In that narrow use, it is simply a term describing a general pattern of rhythm: tempo, accent, syncopation, etc.

However, if I speak of “rock 'n roll”, I am referring to more to the cultural phenomenon. It is identified with a certain style of music, lyrics, etc., but also with a way of life.

Certainly, “rock n’ roll” as cultural expression is not suited for the liturgy. But if we are going to say that “rock” – a certain general pattern of rhythm – is inappropriate, then we need to very specific about what this pattern of rhythm is. The same is true in terms of the chords and melodies used: if we are going to judge it inappropriate, then we need to identify and describe it.
Click to expand...

Correct – There’s rock, and there’s rock. Heavy metal, punk, rap, etc. would certainly be unsuitable. But a group that look and sound like, say, the early Beatles – no problem.
 
40.png
MarthaMartha:
Yes – and wouldn’t the music of historic composers have been the “pop” music of THEIR time? If Mozart truly behaved in public the way he was portrayed in “Amadeus,” one can imagine the church fathers banning his music from their sanctuaries.
Click to expand...
The term “pop music” is short for popular music. Mozart was not popular music because most of the populous at the time did not have access to it. The whole phenominom of popular music as we understand it today really started when music was able to be recorded and distributed amongst the populous.

Whether music is popular or not is irrelevent. As is the behavior of the composer. What IS relevent is the music in question. Is it reverend? Is it appropriate? Does it help the faithful to attend to the Mass? Or is it a distraction with a message contrary to that of the Mass? Who cares if Mozart was a moral man or not! Immorality is certainly not represented in his liturgical music!

By the way - “Amadeus” was a fictional play. Nobody with any education thinks it is anything but a representation and an interesting story. It is certainly not to be taken as fact!
 
I’ll ask my Pastor, but it will take a few moments to get past the electric piano, 3 electric/2 acoustic guitars, and complete drum set just next to the sanctuary:eek: … Please pray for my parish (St Ambrose):crying:

In His Peace!
 
Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with having an electric guitar playing some of the songs as they did when I was in the Air Force. It was very tastefully done and it was good. I really don’t think a full band would be appropriate although I don’t have any documentation on the Church’s position one way or another.
 
I love the modern music my church has on alternating Sundays. Actually, there are about 4 different kinds of choirs, but my favorite is our “Faith Alive” group with drums, guitars and some wind instruments and piano. I feel closer to God when I hear this lovely music. Some of the old chanting music depresses me, but to each his own.
 
1.) If the band was hard rock, it was definitely abuse- not only to God, but to every ear in the place.
  1. ) If the band was attired as rockers in a bar, it was abuse.
 
The Church I previously went to had drums, guitars, etc. on Sunday nights. I stopped going on those nights because of that. I know they are just trying to get the teenagers involved, etc. Is it liturgical abuse? I don’t think so. Does it effect the reverency of the liturgy? Immensely.
 
Rock bands are inherently aliturgical. They do nothing but turn one’s attention away from the sacred presence of Christ in the eucharist. I pretty much refuse to attend any liturgy that has such nonsense unless I am out of town and its the only Mass available.
 
rock music is totally opposed to the celebration of the eucharist. rock music as well as rap and others tend to insight the passions, where as true sacred music stimulates the spirit. gregorian chant or byzantine chant etc. has a transendent quality to it. it is truly beautiful.

look what St. Pius X has declared about chant
  1. These qualities are to be found, in the highest degree, in Gregorian Chant, which is, consequently the Chant proper to the Roman Church, the only chant she has inherited from the ancient fathers, which she has jealously guarded for centuries in her liturgical codices, …
On these grounds Gregorian Chant has always been regarded as the suprememodel for sacred music, so that it is fully legitimate to lay down thefollowing rule:** the more closely a composition for church approaches in its movement, inspiration and savor the Gregorian form, the more sacred and liturgical it becomes; and the more out of harmony it is with that supreme model, the less worthy it is of the temple.**
Click to expand...
i would say you can’t get more distant from gregorian chant then rock and or roll.

rock and roll is fine for having a good time -i love to rock out to def leppard or whitesnake, but not during the mass. the fact that it’s so prevalent in “praise” masses is sad.
 
Was the music Rock or were they just using drums and guitar? They are used in all types of music.

I am a drummer but would hate to hear them in church regardless of what was being played.
 
How do you know it was a rock and roll band? Did they play rock music? Altough it might not be everyone’s cup of tea, there is no specific prohibition against a band playing. I doubt if there would be room for them in the sanctuary. Was it not, perhaps, in a side chapel or below the santuary, to the side? In earlier times, full orchestras complete with percussion and brass used to play in church.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top