Is it a mortal sin for look at a man that a homosexual man finds attractive?

[soulhunter182]

Is it a mortal sin for look at a man that a homosexual man finds attractive?

Hi guys, I need advise on this, I need help to know if had committed a mortal sin or not. I’m a gay catholic, trying to practice chastity. The struggle that I encounter was, like after confession I would be on a state of grace right? Then, like if walking home, I saw a very attractive guy, and I happened to look at his face because I find him attractive. I do know that there is a difference between attraction and lust, although I am 100% on that. And then this one time, when I was at a restaurant having dinner, I seemed to notice this attractive guy just across my table. And before I knew I was starring at him, I find him beautiful, attractive and then I would look away, and then look back a few times more. In my mind, its not like I want to have sex with the guy, but I’m just fond of looking at him. Incase sexual thoughts pops in my mind, i would try to reject it right away and say a few mental prayers to make it go away, and i would stop lookin. This prayer works for me the best for banishing sexual thoughts:

Our lady of Sofunieh:

God Saves me,
Jesus enlightens me,
The Holy Spirit is my Light, Thus I am not afraid.

Have I committed a mortal sin already just by lookin’ at men that I find attractive? Your thoughts please…

 

[raaucoin]

Can’t answer that for you. I can tell you that I remind myself to see Jesus in every man I meet. I am a woman who was hurt by a man. This has allowed me to heal and not to view men as people who are out to hurt me. As a lesbian who lives according to Church teaching, I also remind myself to see the Blessed Mother in every woman I meet. It’s hard to let an appreciation of beauty and feminine strength move into lust when you know Your Holy Momma is present.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

It really makes no difference whether or not you are attracted to men or women. If there is no intent to lust, I don’t think you committed a mortal sin.

Let’s face it, some people are just beautiful. Our eyes go back to them over and over again just because they are so amazing. I think as long as you keep your thoughts to, “wow, is he/she attractive”, you are safe.

I usually follow it up with “Glory to You O’ Lord.” After all, He created the person.

Peace,
John

 

[Roman_Catechism]

I don’t think you have committed a mortal sin of lust here from the sound of it, though in many ways you have to prayerfully decide for yourself that sort of thing at times. Also remember to simply practice modesty of the eyes whenever you can, and that we’re all imperfect humans.

 

[tlimon]

I am a married heterosexual man. I, too, walk down the street and notice women that are beautiful. When this happens, I try not to engage lustful thoughts. That said, the human body is wonderful and mysterious because, after all, we are created in the image of God. I am not sure that we can fundamentally alter sex attractedness (there are people who strongly disagree and they have a good point) but we certainly can train ourselves to abstain from sex and lusting.

This might be totally heretical (so don’t bank on this), but I think that physical attractedness might serve purposes other than to bring us closer to sex. For instance, we often have underlying and subconscious physical attractions. This trait then draws us nearer to another person. By “nearer” I don’t mean physical intimacy but rather in greater friendship. Or, perhaps, we are more inclined to hear what they have to say. The fact that people listen and trust certain news casters and T.V. personalities hint at this fact - they’re face says, “Trust me.” Well, if we are drawn to this person who is of the same sex, or a woman as in my case, then perhaps we can kindle an appropriate friendship with appropriate boundaries.

Sometimes I think this just sounds like inching closer to sin. But then again, through spiritual discipline, I have come to a point where some of these women who “caught by eye” at one point have become good friends. These bonds were forged and made stronger out of our mutual sublimation of underlying sexual desires. We more or less acknowledge them for what they are, we shelved them, and now it remains simply the catalyst that, but for a moment, drew us a little closer together and forced us to see past the twinges of lust and to see each other as friends and siblings in Christ. I know this sounds strange. I’ve never really talked about this with many people. What do you all think?

And to be clear, I really don’t think you sinned Soulhunter. Also, to all those who have SSA and practice a kind of “Romo-erotic” abstinance, you all are in my prayers. You inspire me daily and you add depth and dimension to my understanding of love. Please know you have my support.

Best Regards

 

[Dave_B]

Is it a mortal sin for look at a man that a homosexual man finds attractive?I’m a gay catholic, trying to practice chastity.

Hi there, I’m going to risk controversy here I think you and other Catholic gays/ lesbians “living according to Church teaching” are onto a non-starter here.

If you want peace of mind, you cannot reconcile strict Catholcism with being gay. You should just accept who you are and how God has created you.

All this Catholic guilt trip over sexual issues is plain stupid. We all KNOW full well than many priest are closet gay or are that way inclined. Maybe St Paul and some of the other apostles were gay too God knows.

The church needs to get real and join the modern world. And be honest about sexuality. Anyway rant off.

 

[michelleds]

Hi there, I’m going to risk controversy here I think you and other Catholic gays/ lesbians “living according to Church teaching” are onto a non-starter here.

If you want peace of mind, you cannot reconcile strict Catholcism with being gay. You should just accept who you are and how God has created you.

All this Catholic guilt trip over sexual issues is plain stupid. We all KNOW full well than many priest are closet gay or are that way inclined. Maybe St Paul and some of the other apostles were gay too God knows.

The church needs to get real and join the modern world. And be honest about sexuality. Anyway rant off.

:banghead:

 

[larsenl1]

I’m a gay catholic, trying to practice chastity. The struggle that I encounter

God Bless you, you do have a struggle. You are a hero. It is a struggle for many people to remain chaste, gay or straight. So you are a living example that it is possible.

I believe that it is okay to admire God’s creation and admit that the human body of both genders are a spectacular, astoundingly beautiful, wonderful mystery.

I also throw out kudos to the poster who is a lesbian practicing chastity.

I know many single people who struggle with this.

The cross is a plus sign, it brings you closer to Christ.

 

[tlimon]

Hi there, I’m going to risk controversy here I think you and other Catholic gays/ lesbians “living according to Church teaching” are onto a non-starter here.

If you want peace of mind, you cannot reconcile strict Catholcism with being gay. You should just accept who you are and how God has created you.

All this Catholic guilt trip over sexual issues is plain stupid. We all KNOW full well than many priest are closet gay or are that way inclined. Maybe St Paul and some of the other apostles were gay too God knows.

The church needs to get real and join the modern world. And be honest about sexuality. Anyway rant off.

@Dave, for Soulhunter, anybody dealing with SSA, and to all lurkers.

I offer up some meditations on Dave’s comments.

(1) Observe the rhetorical conflation of the sexual urge with the sexual action.

(2) Draw attention to how Dave wishes away sin by tearing down the walls of guilt complex. And then imagine how many other sins could be dealt with in like fashion simply because “we were made that way.”

(3) Notice how Dave makes a claim that apostles were gay without any mention of scholarly review.

(4) Pay close attention to the shell trick Dave plays by first claiming that one should act upon homosexual urges and then claims apostles were gay for which there is no evidence. The “not so logical” inference is in favor of Apostle Paul being an active homosexual. This must be the inference that Dave is stuggling towards because if Paul was gay and did not indulge in homosexual acts, then Dave would have undermined his previous position that one should indulge in homosexual acts.

(5) Look and see how broad Dave draws attention to “guilt over sexual issues.” Has Dave read Song of Songs or Theology of the Body?

(6) Be vigilant and reason how Dave decided to compare laity with homosexual desires who are NOT under vows to priests who may or may not have homosexual desires who ARE under vows and remain, or ought to remain, celibate.

(7) Analyze Dave’s comments on acceptance of homosexual acts as corresponding to the “modern world.” Now go and study about anciet Greek gymnastics and wrestling. Homosexuality is sooo modern. (Ahem, cough…)

(8) Now reflect on how crude Dave’s rhetoric is. Or, maybe, the rhetoric is not crude at all. Perhaps language such as his was intentionally loaded. Perhaps out of sake of heightened expressions of sexuality, we are being handed an nine pound hammer so that everything looks like a nail. Thus sophisticated yet understated.

Dave’s insights on sexuality is faux erotic. This kind of eroticism that is so cheap, so cheesy, so campy. Love is multi faceted, and through walls erected by the Church we explore the finer nuances of what love truly is. Love is ludic. Love is storgic. Love is erotic. Love is agapic. And, yes, GOD IS LOVE! Now we are on to something profound. As Chesterton said, the Church may have erected wall but they are walls that surround the biggest playground. Dave’s walls are those of prison cell. The irony is that it is done in the name of freedom. Like human’s always do, we accept the counterfeit such as in the Garden of Eden. We accept knowledge when we already had knowledge AND God.

I am so serious. Please read stuff by John Heard author of Dreadnought, an archived blog, and Eve Tushnet.

 

[mathematoons]

Hi there, I’m going to risk controversy here I think you and other Catholic gays/ lesbians “living according to Church teaching” are onto a non-starter here.

If you want peace of mind, you cannot reconcile strict Catholcism with being gay. You should just accept who you are and how God has created you.

All this Catholic guilt trip over sexual issues is plain stupid. We all KNOW full well than many priest are closet gay or are that way inclined. Maybe St Paul and some of the other apostles were gay too God knows.

The church needs to get real and join the modern world. And be honest about sexuality. Anyway rant off.

Matthew 16:23 comes to mind…

 

[tlimon]

:banghead:

Yeah, I know. We have to use our words though.

 

[cargau]

Hi there, I’m going to risk controversy here I think you and other Catholic gays/ lesbians “living according to Church teaching” are onto a non-starter here.

If you want peace of mind, you cannot reconcile strict Catholcism with being gay. You should just accept who you are and how God has created you.

All this Catholic guilt trip over sexual issues is plain stupid. We all KNOW full well than many priest are closet gay or are that way inclined. Maybe St Paul and some of the other apostles were gay too God knows.

The church needs to get real and join the modern world. And be honest about sexuality. Anyway rant off.

I am fascinated at what some people think the Church teaches. I am even more dumfounded at how some folks think they have it all figured out. They’re limited grasp of moral theology exceeds in wisdom 2000 years of learning and discerning under the influence and guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic Church does not teach that homosexuality (SSA) is wrong. The promiscuous
activity associated with active homosexuals is, however, contrary to what is pleasing to God according to the Church. It strikes me as arrogant the notion that our age is the “enlightened” age. Any accepted principal that was held dear by our anscestors is insufficient for today because we are so much “smarter”. Guess what, the next (and following) generations will think you and I are pretty square…

Speculating about the sexual orientation of biblical figures is silly. You have no evidencve to support those ideas. They are only brought out to inflame emotions and further an agenda. In reality, it does neither because most will see right through the ruse.

And finally, no one is more honest about the nature and purpose of human sexuality than the Catholic Church. Sexuality is not some physical toy that we can manipulate any which way. It is a precious gift from God. Human sexuality is an invitation into the very creative life of God. It is to be treated with the utmost reverence.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Going back to the original question, it sounds like the kind of non-lustful attraction that in a heterosexual context would generally not be sinful, at least if you are single and the person you notice is attractive and is, or very well may be, single too.

However, we must recognize that in a homosexual context this attraction is disordered. Insofar as the attraction is not chosen, there is of course no sin involved. However, to consciously look at a man you find attractive for the sake of feeling that attraction seems to me to be a deliberate fostering of something irrational and disordered. Therefore I would suggest there may well have been an element of sin in it.

In addition to all this there is of course the danger of actual lust, as suggested by this sentence: “Incase sexual thoughts pops in my mind, i would try to reject it right away and say a few mental prayers to make it go away, and i would stop lookin.”

Even if you reasonably believe you will resist temptations to lust and even if you do in fact resist them, there is something to be said for avoiding temptation in the first place, especially when there is no rational reason to put yourself in the tempting situation.

I can’t say whether a mortal sin was committed, but I would say that I didn’t read anything in this description that made me think a mortal, as opposed to venial, sin was probably committed.

 

[tlimon]

However, we must recognize that in a homosexual context this attraction is disordered. Insofar as the attraction is not chosen, there is of course no sin involved. However, to consciously look at a man you find attractive for the sake of feeling that attraction seems to me to be a deliberate fostering of something irrational and disordered. Therefore I would suggest there may well have been an element of sin in it.

You bring up a great point. If you reference my first post on the thread, I more or less talk about this issue. I think this topic is very complex. For instance, we know that insofar as attraction is not chosen, there is no sin. This is really the harbinger of this issue. If we accept that some people have biological inclinations toward SSA, then we need to accept that they will not have a real choice about their eyes and sexual urges being drawn to someone of the same sex. This happens to me as a heterosexual male. I try not to lust, but my eyes are drawn to beautiful women. I acknowledge their beauty and try to move on without falling into lust. Now, the question is, may be use that biological urge as a vehicle to a deeper moral relationship with that person with healthy boundaries?

For example, let’s say a woman flashes a beautiful kindly smile. She may or may not have meant that in any flirtatious way. She asks me directions, I give them to her because I am more inclined to give them to a person who is approachable, kind, and smiling. We end up striking a friendship. She is married as am I. We confess things about our marriages to each other and we try, because we are friends, to encourage each other in our marriages and be better spouses.

You see what I mean? Her physical beauty and kindness crashed through my defense mechanisms and a friendship began. This is not to say that I dwelled any longer on her attrativeness or her on mine. Might this be the same way for a person with biologically driven SSA? Sometimes I think it is an American style puritanism influencing the Catholic Church which is making us so skidish about physical beauty. If people had not appreciated such beauty, then the world of art would be awfully lacking.

Anyways, I’ll leave you alone. Best regards.

 

[Bwtby]

It really makes no difference whether or not you are attracted to men or women.

Jesus, Mary, Joseph… for the love of God, save our own.

 

[Dave_B]

indulge in homosexual acts.

Hi Tlimon, actually from the evidence of Paul’s letters there is the possibility that the apostle to the gentiles, was a gay man. Note I say possibility, not certainty.

I realise I am challenging you here to step outside of your bubble. But consider the following facts.

Paul had an obvious degree of self loathing, guilt and shame. Something evident in a number of ppl btw on CAF. In Paul’s letters he had a very negative feeling towards his own body.

And he talked about his sense of not being in control. He desired one thing in his mind, and one in his body. He wrote quite negative (and strange) things about women. And most notably refused to seek marriage.

All of this points to the possibility that he was gay.

 

[EasterJoy]

Hi there, I’m going to risk controversy here I think you and other Catholic gays/ lesbians “living according to Church teaching” are onto a non-starter here.

If you want peace of mind, you cannot reconcile strict Catholcism with being gay. You should just accept who you are and how God has created you.

All this Catholic guilt trip over sexual issues is plain stupid. We all KNOW full well than many priest are closet gay or are that way inclined. Maybe St Paul and some of the other apostles were gay too God knows.

The church needs to get real and join the modern world. And be honest about sexuality. Anyway rant off.

Again with this odd contemporary idea that to exercise self-mastery is an unnatural act.

Eat whatever you want and as much as you want…you were made that way. Have sex with whomever you want…you were made that way. If you have a quick temper, well go ahead and bite the idiot’s head off when he’s being an idiot…he’ll learn pretty quickly that you were made to be assertive, and you’ll only get passive-aggressive ulcers if you don’t tell him what you think. Use deceit to avoid the consequences of your answers… it is as natural as the day is long. Why fight it? Get real and join the modern world, which is built around the idea that people cannot be happy unless they are free to indulge themselves, unless they can shamelessly build up false facades to make themselves look good, unless the most widely accepted idea of “committed” is that we’ll stay together until one of us feels unhappy.

The modern world needs to get real and ask how spending the better part of the last century kicking off age-old conventions has worked out in terms of peace of mind. The minds are all over, but they’re not at peace.

If the world ever gets honest about sexuality, it might realize that while shaming is hurtful, utter shamelessness doesn’t deserve the good press its been getting, and it never has.

 

[Dave_B]

Again with this odd contemporary idea that to exercise self-mastery is an unnatural act…If the world ever gets honest about sexuality, it might realize that while shaming is hurtful, utter shamelessness doesn’t deserve the good press its been getting, and it never has.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with chastity if that is what he wishes to do.

My issue is with the assumption that you guys have that what he did was wrong.

The issue here, … as it is on many threads. Is that he is feeling guilty over something that is perfectly natural, and in no way is he doing anything wrong.

I belong to a church which blesses same sex relationships. I wish the Anglican church would go further and have same sex marriage too. Maybe one day it will.

The church is being dishonest by saying one thing in public and another in private. The facts are that many priests and clergy are gay, and in all likelihood having sex outside of marriage. Yet the posters on CAF operate in a parallel universe where such things dont exist.

 

[mathematoons]

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with chastity if that is what he wishes to do.

My issue is with the assumption that you guys have that what he did was wrong.

The issue here, … as it is on many threads. Is that he is feeling guilty over something that is perfectly natural, and in no way is he doing anything wrong.

I belong to a church which blesses same sex relationships. I wish the Anglican church would go further and have same sex marriage too. Maybe one day it will.

The church is being dishonest by saying one thing in public and another in private. The facts are that many priests and clergy are gay, and in all likelihood having sex outside of marriage. Yet the posters on CAF operate in a parallel universe where such things dont exist.

Note to everyone reading that post:

[SIGN]PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLLS[/SIGN]

 

[Bwtby]

Note to everyone reading that post:

[SIGN]PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLLS[/SIGN]

Let us ask our self the million dollar question, ‘‘What would Jesus do?’’

I bet he’d say, if they’re hungry, feed them.