Is it a mortal sin to have fun?

[Debora123]

Dear Sarcelle,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Certainly, dear friend, innocent and wholesome merriment is not forbidden by our Church, but that does not give us license to embrace a hand in hand with world type of religion that makes little or no demand upon us in terms of personal sanctity and separation from the world.

Unfortunately, dear friend, many modern Catholic’s have an image of Puritanism that has much disfiguring dirt upon it which needs to be scraped off. Many informed men now freely acknowledge that your typical Puritan was not some fierce religious fanatic and social extremist, but rather a sober and self-denying cultured citizen. He was, moreover, a man of principle, devoted, determined, disciplined and excelling in the domestic virtues, with no obvious shortcoming’s, save a propensity to run to words when saying anything of importance, either to God or man. However, the erroneous belief that the Puritans were comic and pathetic in equal degree, being naive and supertistious, overscrupulous, majoring on minors and unhealthly world-denying, dies jolly hard. True, they were Protestants and thus separated from Holy Mother Church theologicallly, but they were, notwithstanding, devout and earnest men who were concerned with persevering unto the end, zealous to confirm their call and election (cf. II Pet. 1: 10,11). They, like the Catholic Saints, realized that the whole course of this mortal life is a state of probation and that our chief preoccupation here is not to “have fun”, but to pursue holiness, so as to prepare ourselves for Heaven and the beatific vision of God in Christ. The fact is that the Puritans did exemplify holy living and in this respect are worthy of emulation, especially given the ease and luxury with which Catholics living in the West are now surrounded.

Whilst our religion was never intended to make us melancholic, dear friend, it was designed to focus our minds upon the more nobler things of life (cf. Phillip. 4: 8). Indeed, St. Paul exhorts us: “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with God in Christ” (Col. 3: 1-3). We should not dote upon worldly pleasures and pursuits, but rather growth in holiness, depth in prayer and cultivating a more intimate communion with Christ, should be the aims which fill our horizon. Heaven and the godless world are diametrically opposed to each other and so a supreme regard to both is inconsistent with the earnest pursuit of holiness. Moreover, it admits of no doubt that the prevalence of our affection to one will proportionally weaken and abate our affection to the other - “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (S. Matt. 6: 24). After all, we Catholics claim to desire “a better country, that is, a heavenly” (Heb. 11: 14) and supposedly concur that “the friendship of the world is enmity with God” and that “whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God” (cf. Jam. 4: 4). Stern passages all of these and if such words were uttered today then, I suspect, that those who uttered them would probably be charged with being ‘Puritanical’ or overscrupulous.

If only, dear friend, the Puritan passion for holiness would “rub off” on more contemporary Catholics living in the godless Western world with its debased culture. There has been far too much nonesense spoken about being world-affirming rather than world-denying and of not behaving in such a way as to make our religion unattractive, harsh or ‘narrow’. However, does there not need to be a more zealous pursuit of holiness, coupled with a firm repudiation of the materialistic values that now dominate Western society? Too many modern Catholics (even those who identify as ‘conservative’ in faith and morals) our contenting themselves with a sort of earthbound ‘Catholicism Lite’ that refuses to manfully face up to the call to holiness and self-denial (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paras. 2013-2015). There can be “no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle” and this, along with necessity of “ascesis and mortification”, is something that we need to hear a great deal more of in church homilies. Alas, so many professing Catholics want to cling on to as large a chunk of the world as possible, and yet still remain in good standing with the Church, which is a monumental tragedy of the first rank. It is high time that we Catholics provided a vibrant Christian counter-culture that dares to be different. Let us remember, the Church has always achieved more in the world when it has been most unlike the world, refusing to compromise with the godless spirit of the age.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Portrait, I must admit I’ve stalked you a little bit and come across a thread you wrote where you were more or less condoning puritanism, and you couldn’t understand why puritanism has gotten such a bad rep, even within Catholicism. I know you are a Catholic convert, having come from a more fundamentalist protestant upbringing. And this all explains a lot of your posts and your views on things.

Just know that while you are free to have the preference for the ultra traditionalist/conservative/puritanical views, they are not necessarily the Church’s obligatory ways.

I’m sure you will disagree, of course, as you always do. However, this post was mainly meant to make others aware. Just to avoid confusion in case someone who might be considering Catholicism is reading this thread and comes across one of your posts here or elsewhere.

 

[Kathrin]

CAF members seem to be extreme in both directions; scrupulosity to the point that breathing is somehow a sin, to the other end where lives the hardliners who think they have a lock on all the answers and tell people they are all going to Hell (themselves excepted, of course).

It’s hard to find any Catholic Average Joes and Average Janes here.

Scrupulous people being too strict with themselves,a dn that other group too strict with others?

 

[Portrait]

Portrait, I must admit I’ve stalked you a little bit and come across a thread you wrote where you were more or less condoning puritanism, and you couldn’t understand why puritanism has gotten such a bad rep, even within Catholicism. I know you are a Catholic convert, having come from a more fundamentalist protestant upbringing. And this all explains a lot of your posts and your views on things.

Just know that while you are free to have the preference for the ultra traditionalist/conservative/puritanical views, they are not necessarily the Church’s obligatory ways.

I’m sure you will disagree, of course, as you always do. However, this post was mainly meant to make others aware. Just to avoid confusion in case someone who might be considering Catholicism is reading this thread and comes across one of your posts here or elsewhere.

Dear Debora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well with you. Thankyou for your response.

The Puritan vision of holiness is not antagonistic to the Catholic view of the devout life insofar as it recognizes the call to holiness (which is a call to all of the faithful, not just some thoroughgoing ‘spiritual’ types), the duty to make spiritual progress by a renunciation of worldly conformity (cf. Rom. 12: 2) and “ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes” (CCC, para. 2015). Moreover, dear sister, it also takes seriously, as all Catholics should, that the whole course of this life is a state of probation and that we must strive now to enter in at the “straight gate” and thus make our calling and election sure.

Unfortunately, dear sister, many modern Catholics have a very warped and erroneous understanding of Puritanism and swallow the caricature that it is, in the words of H.L. Mencken (1880-1956), “the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy”. True, the Puritan was morally austere and strictly orthodox as regards the practice of his religion and was in earnest concerning the pursuit of holiness, but then so is the devout Catholic, or at least jolly well should be. Catholics have always believed that whilst Christians are in the world they are not of it and therefore should not be controlled by what preoccupies the world - the unbridled quest for pleasure and comfort, profit and position - rather than the pursuit of personal sanctity. The Church, in obedience to Sacred Scripture, has always enjoined that the faithful negate this worldly preoccuption as being contrary to the profession of godliness. An obligation is laid upon Catholics to renounce a preoccupation with the world, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with a priggish asceticism and those viewing this thread should be made aware of that - “The way of pefection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renuciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living the peace and joy of the Beatitudes” (CCC, para. 2015). Would you not agree, dear sister, that only habits of self-restraint and self-denial can lay the foundation of a strong godly character?

To return to the topic under review, dear sister, terms like “having fun” are indicative of an underlying worldly outlook and are foreign to the zealous pursuit of personal sanctity to which the Catholic is called. There is indeed, a place for innocent mirth and wholesome leisure pursuits, but we must be jolly vigilant that we do not run to excess or develop an unspiritual preoccupation with the world that causes us to become earthbound.

Finally, dear sister, I am certainly a convert to the Church but I come from a High Anglican (church of England), not a Protestant fundamentalist background.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Aloysium]

it depends on what is fun for you
i’m thinking here about false gods - fame, money, things, pleasure, etc
they will disappoint you

I tend not to focus on the sin aspect

isn’t the aim to bring Him into one’s life?
doing His will?
which boils down to loving Him totally and our neighbours as ourselves

any action carried out in this spirit, cannot be sinful,
if that is what you are worried about

i think that being righteous makes one laugh more, be comfortable with people, have a good time

 

[fix]

Dear Debora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well with you. Thankyou for your response.

The Puritan vision of holiness is not antagonistic to the Catholic view of the devout life insofar as it recognizes the call to holiness (which is a call to all of the faithful, not just some thoroughgoing ‘spiritual’ types), the duty to make spiritual progress by a renunciation of worldly conformity (cf. Rom. 12: 2) and “ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes” (CCC, para. 2015). Moreover, dear sister, it also takes seriously, as all Catholics should, that the whole course of this life is a state of probation and that we must strive now to enter in at the “straight gate” and thus make our calling and election sure.

Unfortunately, dear sister, many modern Catholics have a very warped and erroneous understanding of Puritanism and swallow the caricature that it is, in the words of H.L. Mencken (1880-1956), “the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy”. True, the Puritan was morally austere and strictly orthodox as regards the practice of his religion and was in earnest concerning the pursuit of holiness, but then so is the devout Catholic, or at least jolly well should be. Catholics have always believed that whilst Christians are in the world they are not of it and therefore should not be controlled by what preoccupies the world - the unbridled quest for pleasure and comfort, profit and position - rather than the pursuit of personal sanctity. The Church, in obedience to Sacred Scripture, has always enjoined that the faithful negate this worldly preoccuption as being contrary to the profession of godliness. An obligation is laid upon Catholics to renounce a preoccupation with the world, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with a priggish asceticism and those viewing this thread should be made aware of that - “The way of pefection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renuciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living the peace and joy of the Beatitudes” (CCC, para. 2015). Would you not agree, dear sister, that only habits of self-restraint and self-denial can lay the foundation of a strong godly character?

To return to the topic under review, dear sister, terms like “having fun” are indicative of an underlying worldly outlook and are foreign to the zealous pursuit of personal sanctity to which the Catholic is called. There is indeed, a place for innocent mirth and wholesome leisure pursuits, but we must be jolly vigilant that we do not run to excess or develop an unspiritual preoccupation with the world that causes us to become earthbound.

Finally, dear sister, I am certainly a convert to the Church but I come from a High Anglican (church of England), not a Protestant fundamentalist background.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Thank you for supporting the faith. Your words are a contradiction to our society so interested in diversion and pleasure.

 

[Walking_Home]

Portrait, I must admit I’ve stalked you a little bit and come across a thread you wrote where you were more or less condoning puritanism, and you couldn’t understand why puritanism has gotten such a bad rep, even within Catholicism. I know you are a Catholic convert, having come from a more fundamentalist protestant upbringing. And this all explains a lot of your posts and your views on things.

Just know that while you are free to have the preference for the ultra traditionalist/conservative/puritanical views, they are not necessarily the Church’s obligatory ways.

I’m sure you will disagree, of course, as you always do. However, this post was mainly meant to make others aware. Just to avoid confusion in case someone who might be considering Catholicism is reading this thread and comes across one of your posts here or elsewhere.

---

 

[Bill_Martin]

Dear Debora,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well with you. Thankyou for your response.

The Puritan vision of holiness is not antagonistic to the Catholic view of the devout life insofar as it recognizes the call to holiness (which is a call to all of the faithful, not just some thoroughgoing ‘spiritual’ types), the duty to make spiritual progress by a renunciation of worldly conformity (cf. Rom. 12: 2) and “ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes” (CCC, para. 2015). Moreover, dear sister, it also takes seriously, as all Catholics should, that the whole course of this life is a state of probation and that we must strive now to enter in at the “straight gate” and thus make our calling and election sure.

Unfortunately, dear sister, many modern Catholics have a very warped and erroneous understanding of Puritanism and swallow the caricature that it is, in the words of H.L. Mencken (1880-1956), “the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy”. True, the Puritan was morally austere and strictly orthodox as regards the practice of his religion and was in earnest concerning the pursuit of holiness, but then so is the devout Catholic, or at least jolly well should be. Catholics have always believed that whilst Christians are in the world they are not of it and therefore should not be controlled by what preoccupies the world - the unbridled quest for pleasure and comfort, profit and position - rather than the pursuit of personal sanctity. The Church, in obedience to Sacred Scripture, has always enjoined that the faithful negate this worldly preoccuption as being contrary to the profession of godliness. An obligation is laid upon Catholics to renounce a preoccupation with the world, but this has nothing whatsoever to do with a priggish asceticism and those viewing this thread should be made aware of that - “The way of pefection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renuciation and spiritual battle. Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living the peace and joy of the Beatitudes” (CCC, para. 2015). Would you not agree, dear sister, that only habits of self-restraint and self-denial can lay the foundation of a strong godly character?

To return to the topic under review, dear sister, terms like “having fun” are indicative of an underlying worldly outlook and are foreign to the zealous pursuit of personal sanctity to which the Catholic is called. There is indeed, a place for innocent mirth and wholesome leisure pursuits, but we must be jolly vigilant that we do not run to excess or develop an unspiritual preoccupation with the world that causes us to become earthbound.

Finally, dear sister, I am certainly a convert to the Church but I come from a High Anglican (church of England), not a Protestant fundamentalist background.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

A rejection of fun as being contrary to sanctity is just as false as the idolization of it.

 

[fix]

There is indeed, a place for innocent mirth and wholesome leisure pursuits, but we must be jolly vigilant that we do not run to excess or develop an unspiritual preoccupation with the world that causes us to become earthbound.

 

[Brendan_64]

A rejection of fun as being contrary to sanctity is just as false as the idolization of it.

The notion that fun is somehow contrary to sanctity is Puritanism, and Puritanism is **not **what the Catholic Church is about.

 

[Portrait]

Dearly beloved friends,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

It is still very fashionable within contemporary Catholicism to pillory the Puritans and their vision of the Christian life. Nevertheless, whatever their failings, their thought and teaching does call us to renewal in an age of failing vision and rampant moral permissiveness. True, they were separated from the Church theologically but that does not necessarily mean that we can learn nothing from them or that they cannot serve as examples of to us of holy living. Would any Catholic ever claim that his spiritual life could never be enriched from anything emanating from a Protestant tradition, even if it happened to be true?

Unfortunately, dear friends, much of the pre-conceived opinion regarding the Puritan Saints is based on ignorant caricatures such as that of H.L. Mencken who wrongly defined Puritanism as “the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy”. Contrary to popular belief they were quite capable of enjoying life and did not believe that to do so was a mortal sin. The dour stereotype results from all the caricatures of them by their contemporary adversaries and also from Victorian Evangelicalism and the negative reactions to it. No one would stop to deny that they were morally austere, but that was because they were aware of the transitoriness of this life, which was thought of as a sort of gymnasium where men were ‘working out’ in preparation for Heaven (cf. Phillip. 2: 12, 13). Nothing heretical about that. Indeed, this surely was only an historic Catholic emphasis - patristic and medieval as well as Puritan, an emphasis that modern Christendom has largely lost touch. Dr. Johnson is credited with the remark that when a man knows he is going to be hanged in a fortninght it concentrates his mind wonderfully. Similarly, the Puritans’ awareness that in the midst of life we are in death, merely a step from eternity, gave them a deep gravity, calm yet passionate, with respect to their religious life that today’s opulent, mollycoddled, earthbound Christians seldom manage to match. Again, nothing contrary to Catholic teaching here. Can we not learn from the Puritan Saints to live each day as if it were our last, striving to set our affections on things above and not on things on the earth (cf. Col. 3: 1-3)? Notwithstanding, the Puritans would have certainly agreed that there was a place for innocent merriment and wholesome leisure pursuits, with the proviso that men did not run to excess and become worldly minded.

The Puritan Saints, dear friends, were the moral disinfectant of their times and on many points they created a national conscience, which has only recently begun to be eroded. Denouncing demoralizing amusements (bawdy plays, promiscuous dancing, gluttony and drunkeness, salacious fiction); abhorence of profanity - these emphases are still remembered (sometimes applauded, sometimes ridiculed). However, what is there here for a thoroughgoing Catholic to really disaprove of? Would not any Catholic worth his salt denounce such things with a parallel zeal?

Of the conscientiousness and holy zeal of the Puritan’s, dear friends, there can be no serious doubt whatsoever. What Catholics cannot accept is their defection from Catholic antiquity in favour of novel systems of worship and doctrine. Moreover, their persecution of the Quakers and the judicial horrors of the Salem witch trials are rightly adduced as cautionary tales about what can happen when governance and godliness comport too intimately with one another. However, none of this means that Puritanism cannot teach us anything about pious living, it just means that the Puritan’s were fallen men like the rest of us. At any rate, we should never loose sight of the fact that Puritanism was, at heart, a spiritual movement, passionately concerned with God and godliness; it was a world view, a total Christian philosophy and in terms of spirituality a Protestant version of monastacism. They would have been a great asset to Holy Mother Church, for sure.

Of course we can unwind with our hobbies and enjoy life, dear friends, but we must keep constantly before us the truth that we are “pilgrims and strangers” on the earth and that here have we have “no continuing city, but seek one to come”. If our having ‘fun’ causes us to be conformed to the world and to set our sights on earthly joys and comforts, then we are in deep trouble and need the healthful medicine of Puritanism to give us a sense of perspective.

God bless and this will be my final post in this thread. It is hoped that my contributions have helped dispel some of the untruths and caricatures of the poor Puritan Saints.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Brendan_64]

The Puritans were no doubt very well-meaning, devout and spriritual. However, the notion that somehow the world was bad, and that the pleasures of the world were something to be, if not fully avoided, then at least viewed with great suspicion is not what we as Catholics are about.

God made the world full of joys and pleasures for us to enjoy. Of course we have to behave in a sensible fashion in line with what Jesus taught us, but the idea that worldly pleasures and the fun they bring are somehow automatically to be viewed with great suspicion is actually being quite ungracious and ungrateful to He who created the world for us.

Let’s not start worrying about whether we are having too much fun, let’s worry instead about whether we are actually loving our neighbour as ourself.

 

[Aloysium]

The Puritans were no doubt very well-meaning, devout and spriritual. However, the notion that somehow the world was bad, and that the pleasures of the world were something to be, if not fully avoided, then at least viewed with great suspicion is not what we as Catholics are about.

God made the world full of joys and pleasures for us to enjoy. Of course we have to behave in a sensible fashion in line with what Jesus taught us, but the idea that worldly pleasures and the fun they bring are somehow automatically to be viewed with great suspicion is actually being quite ungracious and ungrateful to He who created the world for us.

Let’s not start worrying about whether we are having too much fun, let’s worry instead about whether we are actually loving our neighbour as ourself.

firstly, i must thank Portrait for his contributions

:twocents:

while i don’t disagree with you Brendan, i must say that this perspective may reflect one’s having been granted certain blessings not shared by all of us

there are many people who have difficulty getting through each day: chronic physical or psychiatric illness, serious addictions, economic deprivation, even if everything else is wonderful, how does one go on after losing a child?

i would suggest, if one begins to worry that they are having too much fun, that they thank the Lord for the gifts He has bestowed on them

 

[realtiger]

Sirach 14:14 Don’t deny yourself a single day’s happiness. If there is something you want to do and it is lawful, go ahead!

 

[Brendan_64]

there are many people who have difficulty getting through each day: chronic physical or psychiatric illness, serious addictions, economic deprivation, even if everything else is wonderful, how does one go on after losing a child?

That is very true, but it is not going to help those people if the rest of us go about wearing ‘hair-shirts’. We should help such people through financial and practical support, but we shouldn’t feel that we are somehow doing wrong by not enjoying pleasures of our own lives, this will not help our fellow man at all.

We should love our neighbour and help him through practical and emotional support, but our not enjoying our own lives will not help our neighbour one little bit. In fact deliberately trying not to enjoy the pleasures of life can in itself a very self-indulgent act.

 

[Brendan_64]

Sirach 14:14 Don’t deny yourself a single day’s happiness. If there is something you want to do and it is lawful, go ahead!

If only the Puritans had read a Bible with the Book of Sirach in it, then perhaps they would have had a different outlook

 

[Debora123]

A rejection of fun as being contrary to sanctity is just as false as the idolization of it.

 

[Debora123]

The notion that fun is somehow contrary to sanctity is Puritanism, and **Puritanism is **not ****what the Catholic Church is about.

Very true.

 

[Debora123]

The Puritans were no doubt very well-meaning, devout and spriritual. However, the notion that somehow the world was bad, and that the pleasures of the world were something to be, if not fully avoided, then at least viewed with great suspicion is not what we as Catholics are about.

God made the world full of joys and pleasures for us to enjoy. Of course we have to behave in a sensible fashion in line with what Jesus taught us, but the idea that worldly pleasures and the fun they bring are somehow automatically to be viewed with great suspicion is actually being quite ungracious and ungrateful to He who created the world for us.

Let’s not start worrying about whether we are having too much fun, let’s worry instead about whether we are actually loving our neighbour as ourself.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Sirach 14:14 Don’t deny yourself a single day’s happiness. If there is something you want to do and it is lawful, go ahead!

The Book of Sirach has a lot of wisdom.

 

[Aloysium]

That is very true, but it is not going to help those people if the rest of us go about wearing ‘hair-shirts’. We should help such people through financial and practical support, but we shouldn’t feel that we are somehow doing wrong by not enjoying pleasures of our own lives, this will not help our fellow man at all.

We should love our neighbour and help him through practical and emotional support, but our not enjoying our own lives will not help our neighbour one little bit. In fact deliberately trying not to enjoy the pleasures of life can in itself a very self-indulgent act.

again, i don’t disagree with you:
Heaven is described in several verses as a wedding; Jesus turns water into wine etc;
God is infinite goodness and beauty - much more than fun, Joy

:twocents:

• as in Nineveh, ppl wear sack-cloth when they realize that they’ve gone astray, to break free from stuff they had found fun, but was sinful
• we generally say grace before we eat and not so much when our bellies are full
• it serves no purpose feeling guilty that one is enjoying oneself while others suffer; guilt under such circumstances is a call to act as you describe, to help our neighbour

personally, it would be hypocritical for me to say ppl should not enjoy themselves