R
- Status
P
peaceandmercy
Guest
Thankfully with technology and medication, we can be closer to establishing that, friends and family can surely tell if one is acting abnormal even if the individual is perhaps eccentric at the best of times, psychosis, if i’m not wrong can appear when the individual takes narcotics.
I actually have a very good friend who is schizophrenic, he’s had at least 12 episodes in the time i’ve known him, he attends a pentecostal church, when he does have an episode, these can last for weeks, during this time, he get’s very religious, starts talking about evil spirits, hearing voices and thinking people want to kill him, we’ve had so many fallings out due the state of his mental health, but i know he’s a great man that would go really far for me at a time of need.
I actually have a very good friend who is schizophrenic, he’s had at least 12 episodes in the time i’ve known him, he attends a pentecostal church, when he does have an episode, these can last for weeks, during this time, he get’s very religious, starts talking about evil spirits, hearing voices and thinking people want to kill him, we’ve had so many fallings out due the state of his mental health, but i know he’s a great man that would go really far for me at a time of need.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
I personally believe that schizophrenia is more of a spiritual disorder, but not that meds are not needed.
P
peaceandmercy
Guest
schizophrenia is considered a brain disease, my friend just needed to trigger it, all it took was one ecstasy pill, i actually stayed with him at his flat during a time that he was ill, it’s odd, the more time you spend with him, the more likely you are to believe what he is saying is true, there was this one time, it was really late and he told me that he could see a demon on my shoulder, that really freaked me out, he said it so convincingly, the way he was looking at me made it feel like he was telling the truth.
But in someways, i would like there to be some meaning to it, schizophrenia really can effect your life and your consistancy, schizophrenia symtoms can usually only be relieved a bit, i don’t think they ever truely have their mind back, thankfully my friend is strong minded and has strong faith in God.
M
MaryT777
Guest
In the case of my friend it was a brain disease. He was a daily Mass attender when he wasn’t sick. I went to visit him in the hospital when he had a severe episode. He had an aide with him full time for they said he was having delusions he was St Michael the Archangel and trying to “fly” from chair to chair in the open part of the unit and fell.
I pray for a cure for schizophrenia. This man’s illness had cost him his marriage and his children who just couldn’t cope with the many acute episodes he had that included losing many jobs.
It was so heartbreaking to me.
Mary.
I pray for a cure for schizophrenia. This man’s illness had cost him his marriage and his children who just couldn’t cope with the many acute episodes he had that included losing many jobs.
It was so heartbreaking to me.
Mary.
P
pianistclare
Guest
Listen to the Doctors on this one.
It is real, and it’s a disease.
A person needs their medication.
You’re not denying God anything by taking the medications He has provided to sick people.
It’s an Old Testament construct to believe that illness is caused by sin.
It is real, and it’s a disease.
A person needs their medication.
You’re not denying God anything by taking the medications He has provided to sick people.
It’s an Old Testament construct to believe that illness is caused by sin.
H
hazcompat
Guest
Blessed Angela of Foligno
HOW IT MAY BE KNOWN THAT GOD HATH ENTERED INTO THE SOUL
IT must be known that God cometh sometimes unto the soul when it hath neither called, nor prayed unto, nor summoned Him. And He doth instill into the soul a fire and a love and a sweetness not customary, wherein it doth greatly delight and rejoice ; and it doth believe that this hath been wrought by God Himself there present, but this is not certain.
Presently the soul doth perceive that God is inwardly within itself, because albeit it cannot behold Him within it doth nevertheless perceive that His grace is present with it, wherein it doth greatly delight. Yet is not even this certain.
Presently it doth further perceive that God cometh unto it with most sweet words, wherein it delighteth yet more, and with much rejoicing doth it feel God within it ; yet do some doubts still remain, albeit but few. For the soul possesseth as yet no perfect certainty, neither is it assured that God is truly within it, because such converse and such feelings can be produced likewise by other spirits.
Wherefore is it still in doubt. And it seemeth unto me that this cometh either of its own malice and sinfulness, or else truly by the will of God, who desireth not that the soul should feel certain and secure. But when the soul doth feel the presence of God more deeply than is customary, then doth it certify unto itself that He is within it.
It doth feel it, I say, with an understanding so marvellous and so profound, and with such great love and divine fire, that it loseth all love for itself and for the body, and it speaketh and knoweth and understandeth those things of the which it hath never heard from any mortal whatsoever. And it understandeth with great illumination, and with much difficulty doth it hold its peace ; and if it doth hold its peace, it holdeth it out of the abundance of its zeal, that it may not be displeasing unto God its Lover nor cause offence, and likewise by reason of its humility ; for it desireth not to speak of things so exceeding high that it may not draw attention unto itself.
Thus hath it happened divers times unto me, that, out of my burning desire to work the salvation of my neighbour, I did speak things for the which I was reproved, and it was said unto me, " Sister, turn thee again unto the Holy Scriptures, for they say not thus, and therefore do we not understand thee."
But with that feeling whereby it is certified unto the soul that God dwelleth within it, there is given unto it a disposition so perfect that it doth most entirely and verily agree with the soul in all things, and in every way do all the members of the body agree with the soul and do truly form one cause together with it ; neither do they rebel against the will of the soul, but do perfectly desire those things which are of God, but which, nevertheless, they had not heretofore in any way desired. And this disposition is granted unto the soul through grace whereby it doth perceive that the Divine Being hath entered into it, and hath granted it the assurance and the desire of God and of those things which are of God, after the manner of the true love wherewith God hath loved us. Thus doth the soul feel that God is mingled with it and hath made companionship with it.
Further, when God cometh unto the soul, it is some times given unto it to behold Him, and it beholdeth Him devoid of any bodily shape or form, and more clearly than doth one man behold another. For the eyes of the soul do behold a spiritual and not a bodily presence, of the which I am not able to speak because words and imagination do fail me. And in very truth the soul doth rejoice in that sight with an ineffable joy and regardeth naught else, because this it is which doth fill it with most inestimable satisfaction.
continued…
HOW IT MAY BE KNOWN THAT GOD HATH ENTERED INTO THE SOUL
IT must be known that God cometh sometimes unto the soul when it hath neither called, nor prayed unto, nor summoned Him. And He doth instill into the soul a fire and a love and a sweetness not customary, wherein it doth greatly delight and rejoice ; and it doth believe that this hath been wrought by God Himself there present, but this is not certain.
Presently the soul doth perceive that God is inwardly within itself, because albeit it cannot behold Him within it doth nevertheless perceive that His grace is present with it, wherein it doth greatly delight. Yet is not even this certain.
Presently it doth further perceive that God cometh unto it with most sweet words, wherein it delighteth yet more, and with much rejoicing doth it feel God within it ; yet do some doubts still remain, albeit but few. For the soul possesseth as yet no perfect certainty, neither is it assured that God is truly within it, because such converse and such feelings can be produced likewise by other spirits.
Wherefore is it still in doubt. And it seemeth unto me that this cometh either of its own malice and sinfulness, or else truly by the will of God, who desireth not that the soul should feel certain and secure. But when the soul doth feel the presence of God more deeply than is customary, then doth it certify unto itself that He is within it.
It doth feel it, I say, with an understanding so marvellous and so profound, and with such great love and divine fire, that it loseth all love for itself and for the body, and it speaketh and knoweth and understandeth those things of the which it hath never heard from any mortal whatsoever. And it understandeth with great illumination, and with much difficulty doth it hold its peace ; and if it doth hold its peace, it holdeth it out of the abundance of its zeal, that it may not be displeasing unto God its Lover nor cause offence, and likewise by reason of its humility ; for it desireth not to speak of things so exceeding high that it may not draw attention unto itself.
Thus hath it happened divers times unto me, that, out of my burning desire to work the salvation of my neighbour, I did speak things for the which I was reproved, and it was said unto me, " Sister, turn thee again unto the Holy Scriptures, for they say not thus, and therefore do we not understand thee."
But with that feeling whereby it is certified unto the soul that God dwelleth within it, there is given unto it a disposition so perfect that it doth most entirely and verily agree with the soul in all things, and in every way do all the members of the body agree with the soul and do truly form one cause together with it ; neither do they rebel against the will of the soul, but do perfectly desire those things which are of God, but which, nevertheless, they had not heretofore in any way desired. And this disposition is granted unto the soul through grace whereby it doth perceive that the Divine Being hath entered into it, and hath granted it the assurance and the desire of God and of those things which are of God, after the manner of the true love wherewith God hath loved us. Thus doth the soul feel that God is mingled with it and hath made companionship with it.
Further, when God cometh unto the soul, it is some times given unto it to behold Him, and it beholdeth Him devoid of any bodily shape or form, and more clearly than doth one man behold another. For the eyes of the soul do behold a spiritual and not a bodily presence, of the which I am not able to speak because words and imagination do fail me. And in very truth the soul doth rejoice in that sight with an ineffable joy and regardeth naught else, because this it is which doth fill it with most inestimable satisfaction.
continued…
H
hazcompat
Guest
continued
This searching and beholding (whereby God is seen in such a manner that the soul can behold naught else) is so profound that much doth it grieve me that I cannot make manifest aught whatsoever of it, seeing that it is not a thing the which can be touched or imagined or judged of. Moreover, the soul doth know in many other ways that God hath without doubt entered into it, of the which ways I will now speak of two.
One is an holy unction which doth so instantly revive the soul, make meek all the members of the body, and cause them to agree together with the soul, that they cannot be touched or offended by anything whatsoever the which could even in the smallest degree agitate the soul. Therefore doth it feel and hear that God speaketh within it, and by means of this great and in all ways unspeakable unction the soul doth understand with the utmost certainty that God is within it, because no saint nor any angel in Paradise would have power to grant this. But seeing how that it is a thing the which cannot be expressed, it grieveth me that I can find no words wherewith to describe it in comparison of that which it truly is.
Wherefore I pray God that He will pardon me, for this is not of mine own will, and if I were able and if it were pleasing unto God, I would make manifest somewhat of His goodness. The other way whereby the soul knoweth that God is within it is by an embrace which He doth give unto the soul. There is neither father, nor mother, nor son, nor any other person whatsoever who can embrace the object beloved with so great a love as that wherewith God embraceth the soul. For He doth embrace it with such love and draw it unto Himself with such sweetness and gentleness that methinketh there is not a man in the world who can declare it, nor express it, nor believe it unless he hath himself experienced it ; and although he might perchance divine somewhat of this love, yet could he not possibly know it as it truly is. Of a surety, God doth implant most sweet love in the soul, the which doth make it burn for Christ alone. And it beareth with it so great a light (whereby it understandeth the fulness of the goodness of God which it experienceth within itself) that it hath understanding of much more than it feeleth within itself.
Then hath it the assurance and certitude that Christ dwelleth within it ; but all that we can say is as nothing in comparison with that which it really is. Then the soul hath no more tears, whether of joy or of sorrow or of any other kind, seeing that when the soul hath tears it is in a lower state. For God poureth into the soul an exceeding great sweetness, in a measure so abundant that it can ask nothing more yea, verily, it would be in Paradise if this should endure, its joy being so great that it filleth the whole body ; and all injury which the soul suffereth, whether by deeds or words, is esteemed as naught and is turned into sweetness.
Peace
This searching and beholding (whereby God is seen in such a manner that the soul can behold naught else) is so profound that much doth it grieve me that I cannot make manifest aught whatsoever of it, seeing that it is not a thing the which can be touched or imagined or judged of. Moreover, the soul doth know in many other ways that God hath without doubt entered into it, of the which ways I will now speak of two.
One is an holy unction which doth so instantly revive the soul, make meek all the members of the body, and cause them to agree together with the soul, that they cannot be touched or offended by anything whatsoever the which could even in the smallest degree agitate the soul. Therefore doth it feel and hear that God speaketh within it, and by means of this great and in all ways unspeakable unction the soul doth understand with the utmost certainty that God is within it, because no saint nor any angel in Paradise would have power to grant this. But seeing how that it is a thing the which cannot be expressed, it grieveth me that I can find no words wherewith to describe it in comparison of that which it truly is.
Wherefore I pray God that He will pardon me, for this is not of mine own will, and if I were able and if it were pleasing unto God, I would make manifest somewhat of His goodness. The other way whereby the soul knoweth that God is within it is by an embrace which He doth give unto the soul. There is neither father, nor mother, nor son, nor any other person whatsoever who can embrace the object beloved with so great a love as that wherewith God embraceth the soul. For He doth embrace it with such love and draw it unto Himself with such sweetness and gentleness that methinketh there is not a man in the world who can declare it, nor express it, nor believe it unless he hath himself experienced it ; and although he might perchance divine somewhat of this love, yet could he not possibly know it as it truly is. Of a surety, God doth implant most sweet love in the soul, the which doth make it burn for Christ alone. And it beareth with it so great a light (whereby it understandeth the fulness of the goodness of God which it experienceth within itself) that it hath understanding of much more than it feeleth within itself.
Then hath it the assurance and certitude that Christ dwelleth within it ; but all that we can say is as nothing in comparison with that which it really is. Then the soul hath no more tears, whether of joy or of sorrow or of any other kind, seeing that when the soul hath tears it is in a lower state. For God poureth into the soul an exceeding great sweetness, in a measure so abundant that it can ask nothing more yea, verily, it would be in Paradise if this should endure, its joy being so great that it filleth the whole body ; and all injury which the soul suffereth, whether by deeds or words, is esteemed as naught and is turned into sweetness.
Peace
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
It’s so sad to me that many people suffer so greatly in this world! We need to remember, however, that we are living in a world of good and evil, and we who suffer but lightly should always give thanks to God, help those who are less fortunate, and give God great thanks for keeping us relatively free from such suffering.
What I got most from the article is that our hearing, seeing, and understanding things that other people can’t is often a great blessing from the Holy Spirit, and should not be assumed to be an indication of psychosis! People in the mental health professions really need to be aware of this!
S
Sarcelle
Guest
Schizophrenia has a genetic component and therefore is organic not spiritual.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
Can you prove that? Even if it is related to genetics, in no way does that implies that it’s not spiritual. I’m not in anyway suggesting that meds are not necessary, but that Catholic spiritual help should always be sought in addition. Just from the treatment of my own mental illnesses, I found Christion meditation and contemplative prayer to be very valuable!
S
Sarcelle
Guest
Prove what? I don’t need to prove anything when others have already done it for me.
You can go to an exorcist and claim spiritual oppression and they will refer you first to a psychiatrist or a psychologist.
Below is the link to Scientific American.
scientificamerican.com/article/massive-study-reveals-schizophrenia-s-genetic-roots/
P
pianistclare
Guest
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
Are you suggesting that Catholic spiritual guidance, such as Christian meditation and contemplative prayer, has no positive effects on people suffering from psychosis or other mental illness?
I’m Catholic, first and foremost, and I deeply believe that God is far above exorcists and “science.” I believe God has the power to cure all mental ailments through spiritual means.
(Again, I’m in no way suggesting that psychiatric care and meds are not often necessary.)
S
Sarcelle
Guest
I am also in no way discounting Christian counseling.
Both medicine and spiritual guidance is ideal.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
It now sounds like we agree somewhat, but I would still personally label it a spiritual disorder over any medical model, such as it simply being inherited genetically. I happen to be a retired research psychologist and can tell you that every ten years or so the field discovers the true cause of schizophrenia! I’m being facetious, of course, in that the field of psychology has never come up with the true cause, just theories that always fall to the wayside. Again, I personally believe this is due to “science” always barking up the wrong tree, never suggesting a spiritual cause because it would implicate religion, which has always been a taboo subject and goes against the “scientific” model!
As pessimistic as it may sound, I do not think “science” will ever find the true cause of Alzheimer’s because “science” is too narrow in its approach. Of course, “science” has a big ego, and will always claim that they are on track to explaining Alzheimer’s, even though their theories will always fall to the wayside every ten years or so.
Common people will never see, or admit the game that “science” is playing!
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
“They [the sciences in this case] are playing a game. They are playing at not playing a game. If I show them I see they are, I shall break the rules and they will punish me. I must play their game, of not seeing I see the game”
― R.D. Laing
“O Jesus, Thou hast set me apart from the world; what, then, shall I seek therein? Thou hast created me for Heaven; what, then, have I to do with the world? Depart from me, deceitful world, with thy vanities! Henceforth I will follow the Way of the Cross traced out for me by my Redeemer, and journey onward to my heavenly home, there to dwell forever and ever.”
–St Francis of Assisi
“All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest.” – Paul Simon
T
thistle
Guest
It is not a spiritual disorder. That is nonsense.
R
Robert_Sock
Guest
According to “science,” it’s nonsense, but I’ve been in psychology all my life, and never did they come up with the cause. What you say reflects your ignorance in psychology and lack of faith in the supernatural. Until a cause is found, all explanations should remain open, if you’re an open-minded person!
I believe if you look at things carefully, religion helps more than anything else.
- Status