Is it a psychosis or the Holy Spirit?

[pianistclare]

People who suffer with this shoudl NOT stop taking their meds.
It leads to more problems. Prayer helps people cope with this terrible diagnosis, but it is a physical disease. All such will be healed in the NEXT life. That’s what people hold on to.
But God has gifted us with medicine and medical experts. We should not reject such gifts.

 

[Lou2U]

I do not think that schizophrenia has a spiritual cause. In terms of causes for the disorder, there are many. Biological, like genetics and dopamine, psychological like the influence of dysfunctional families, as well as cognitive. I would argue that there is no single cause for schizophrenia, but many interacting factors that can trigger its onset.

Of course, things such as religion and praying may be helpful in managing its symptoms. So is medication. I have a friend who has the disorder, without her medication, she would be in a much worse place.

Lou

 

[Robert_Sock]

**People who suffer with this shoudl NOT stop taking their meds. **
It leads to more problems. Prayer helps people cope with this terrible diagnosis, but it is a physical disease. All such will be healed in the NEXT life. That’s what people hold on to.
But God has gifted us with medicine and medical experts. We should not reject such gifts.

Please read all my posts and see that I specifically said that meds and psychiatric help are needed, even though I personally see it as a spiritual disorder that can greatly benefit from Christian meditation and contemplative prayer.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Where do intrusive thoughts come from? Again, I suggest that they are spiritual in nature… often temptations from Satan, as is often psychotic thinking. Yes, meds may help, but it’s in Christian meditation and contemplative prayer that help the most!

 

[thistle]

Where do intrusive thoughts come from? Again, I suggest that they are spiritual in nature… often temptations from Satan, as is often psychotic thinking. Yes, meds may help, but it’s in Christian meditation and contemplative prayer that help the most!

Schizophrenia is NOT a spiritual disorder. It is a mental disorder.
Please stop implying otherwise. Your comments might get people to stop taking their medication and that could be dangerous.
YOU are not a qualified expert.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Schizophrenia is NOT a spiritual disorder. It is a mental disorder.
Please stop implying otherwise. Your comments might get people to stop taking their medication and that could be dangerous.
YOU are not a qualified expert.

I happen to be a research psychologist who studied schizophrenia and I can honestly say that researchers have never proved what causes schizophrenia. True, most psychologists would not ever consider it a spiritual disorder simply because calling it a spiritual disorder often implies religion, which is most taboo even in the soft “sciences” like psychology. However, because calling it a “spiritual” disorder has never been proven wrong, it should be considered by any open-minded researcher.

I’m not in any way suggesting that meds can be discontinued, just that Christian meditation and contemplative prayer may be just as important, or perhaps more important, then meds.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Schizophrenia is NOT a spiritual disorder. It is a mental disorder.
Please stop implying otherwise. Your comments might get people to stop taking their medication and that could be dangerous.
YOU are not a qualified expert.

Would you dare say that God cannot help schizophrenic’s? Would you suggest that spiritual healing through Christian meditation and contemplative prayer are total nonsense? Also, keep in mind that spirituality need not necessarily involve religion and that even though schizophrenia is a mental disorder that it is not affected by the spirit of God? Please keep in mind that this is a Catholic forum, where people are free to suggest the healing power of spirit may be of great help in curing schizophrenia in addition to meds?

I’ll say it again, I personally believe that many mental illnesses are spiritual disorders and can be greatly helped with God’s intervention through Christian meditation and contemplative prayer, even though meds may help alleviate the symptoms too.

 

[Sephero]

I’m very curious about this as well.

Schizophrenia affects the mind right?

The human soul, is a spirit.

Isn’t the soul where the mind draws its powers?

So isn’t the source of the mind, spirit?

I guess this all comes down to, how and where does matter (neurotransmitters) meet spirit?

Does the physical impress upon the spirit, or does the spirit impress upon the physical?

Also, someone said earlier ‘it’s an Old Testament construct to believe that illness is caused by sin.’, I’m totally confused by this. Isn’t the whole reason, everything is out of whack, suffering, and death etc. not because of sin?

Cheers!

 

[Robert_Sock]

I’m very curious about this as well.

Schizophrenia affects the mind right?

The human soul, is a spirit.

Isn’t the soul where the mind draws its powers?

So isn’t the source of the mind, spirit?

I guess this all comes down to, how and where does matter (neurotransmitters) meet spirit?

Does the physical impress upon the spirit, or does the spirit impress upon the physical?

Also, someone said earlier ‘it’s an Old Testament construct to believe that illness is caused by sin.’, I’m totally confused by this. Isn’t the whole reason, everything is out of whack, suffering, and death etc. not because of sin?

Cheers!

If Satan can influence our conscious thoughts and inner desires, as he must if we believe that he can tempt us, then I believe that he (and God) can also affect our mental health. Again, to science, this is absurd simply because science, in and of itself, does not recognize Satan or God as being real. How the soul, mind, spirit, and brain interact is more of a philosophical question which I personally believe is well beyond human understanding, but clearly, there is a difference between the mind and brain.

I can see no reason why a Catholic forum like CAF should object to my belief that mental health is largely spiritual and that Christian meditation and contemplative prayer can play a large role.

 

[Sephero]

If Satan can influence our conscious thoughts and inner desires, as he must if we believe that he can tempt us, then I believe that he (and God) can also affect our mental health. Again, to science, this is absurd simply because science, in and of itself, does not recognize Satan or God as being real. How the soul, mind, spirit, and brain interact is more of a philosophical question which I personally believe is well beyond human understanding, but clearly, there is a difference between the mind and brain.

I am totally with you in relation to the fact that we cannot ignore that some issues with the human mind may be directly related to the influence of evil spirits, surely this is what the majority of Saints in the centuries gone passed would have understood of schizophrenia or other such mental disoders. (Am I wrong on this?).

However, the other thing we cannot ignore, is that material substances, say for example a mushroom that contains hallucinogenic compounds, can and will make one hear and see things that are not there (or are they, that’s a different question). The physical chemicals in the mushroom, interact with the chemicals in our brain, and the result is that we hear and see things that we would not normally.

My point being is that, while we can definitely say that spiritual beings can influence or disturb the mind of a person, we can’t ignore (what I think most previous posters are attempting to point out) that sometimes the cause of a disturbed mind may have it’s origin in something wholly material - like the ecstasy pill being the trigger for the schizophrenia of a previous posters friend.

I absolutely agree that God could cure peoples mental issues, just as he could make the paralytic walk - but He does not always do this, why? That’s the tough question down the ages.

Do we say that the paralytic is the way they are because of demons?
If not, why should we say the same for schizophrenic people?
Just as the neurons are not functioning in a person who can’t walk, the neurons may not be functioning correctly in a schizophrenic person.

However my question with all this also is, isn’t the root cause of disease spiritual, as in sin?

Someone said here that sin causing disease was an Old Testament construct, what did they mean by that?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I am totally with you in relation to the fact that we cannot ignore that some issues with the human mind may be directly related to the influence of evil spirits, surely this is what the majority of Saints in the centuries gone passed would have understood of schizophrenia or other such mental disoders. (Am I wrong on this?).

However, the other thing we cannot ignore, is that material substances, say for example a mushroom that contains hallucinogenic compounds, can and will make one hear and see things that are not there (or are they, that’s a different question). The physical chemicals in the mushroom, interact with the chemicals in our brain, and the result is that we hear and see things that we would not normally.

My point being is that, while we can definitely say that spiritual beings can influence or disturb the mind of a person, we can’t ignore (what I think most previous posters are attempting to point out) that sometimes the cause of a disturbed mind may have it’s origin in something wholly material - like the ecstasy pill being the trigger for the schizophrenia of a previous posters friend.

I absolutely agree that God could cure peoples mental issues, just as he could make the paralytic walk - but He does not always do this, why? That’s the tough question down the ages.

Do we say that the paralytic is the way they are because of demons?
If not, why should we say the same for schizophrenic people?
Just as the neurons are not functioning in a person who can’t walk, the neurons may not be functioning correctly in a schizophrenic person.

However my question with all this also is, isn’t the root cause of disease spiritual, as in sin?

Someone said here that sin causing disease was an Old Testament construct, what did they mean by that?

As I said previously, how the soul, mind, spirit, and brain interact is more of a philosophical question which I personally believe is well beyond human understanding. I also have said that meds, which presumingly alter the chemistry, should not be overlooked. The same goes for mind altering drugs as you have pointed out. However, this does not necessarily mean that spirit is not also involved. I’m on Adderall for depression and Xanax for anxiety, and they certainly have a huge effect, however, it seems obvious to me that my Christian meditation and contemplative prayer also have a noticeable effect, at times, maybe more than the meds. As long as I keep my mind fixed on prayer and meditation, things seem to go pretty well for me, but when I turn to worldly things, I tend to lose it and need my meds. What exactly is going on, I doubt that anybody can explain.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

Eugene Bleuler was a Swiss psychiatrist and eugenicis. During a lecture he introduced to the world in 1908 the term “schizophrenia”. Bleuler’s assitant was Carl Gustav Jung and both where early members with Sigmund Freud in the Vienna Psychoanalytic Society.

Bleuler has had involvment with may other psychiatrists in attempting to reproduce poltergeist-style phenomena under controlled conditions. Resulting in a proposed theory that ‘poltergeist phenomena’ could be explained in terms of emotional conflicts unconsciously acted out by individuals with a ‘telekinetic’ disposition.

Interestingly Jungs upbringing and generational family line was deeply established in the occult. His maternal grandfather, Rev. Samuel Preiswerk, kept a chair in the house soley for the ghost of his deceased wife. Jung’s mother Emilie in her teen’s developed occult powers. Later in life the public became aware of Jungs deep interest in astrology, parapsychology, alchemy and his predictions of a coming “new Age of Aquarius”

Jung, like many psychiatrist of the time held a deep interest in occult spiritualism and leading to various occult experiments. I have done extensive research and have found that many occult circles of the last centry had various connections within the infancy of mental health.

As astute catholics it is worth having knowlege and understanding on the belief systems of certain influential individuals involved in the developement of early psychiatry.

Looking at the larger picture:

Over the last century of mental health research and many billions of dollars spent, there is still no clear evidence that schizophrenia and other related psychotic disorders are the result of a diseased brain. With regular press releases of the latest discoveries of one particular abnormal brain feature or another, this statement is likely to come as a surprise to some, and disregarded as absurdity by others.

Yet, anyone who takes a close look at the actual research will simply relise that not be able to honestly say otherwise.