Is it a requirement that priests ordained now know how to perform extraordinary mass?

[victrolatim]

I’m not sure as far as my local seminary goes. I’m sure there is an option if one wishes to seek it out. I know a young priest in his thirties who graduated from the local seminary who celebrates the extraordinary form often. I often find the masses he celebrates to be more on point than some of the old timers. Perhaps because he learned it from study and isn’t coming at it from a nostalgia standpoint. He did tell me that (at least in our seminary) having an interest in the EF you have to talk to the right people because a lot of the older staff tend to correlate interest in the old rites with an anti-Vatican II attitude even if that is not the case.

 

[OraLabora]

That’s good, but it still is a far distance from studying these languages, and being fluent enough to say mass in Latin.

It’s not really necessary to be fluent in Latin to say any Mass, EF or OF in Latin. Only sufficiently proficient. And that is a very low bar. This mere oblate has learned Latin well enough to read and chant it fluidly, even if I only understand a fraction of what I read.

Enough to be able to be a chorister in a Gregorian schola and chant the LOTH daily in a Latin (I chant it aloud in Latin but reread each psalm silently in French, the Latin being my “mantra” to concentrate the mind). Recently at a private OF Mass in Latin, I was able to do the responses, and read the epistle and psalm aloud in Latin, in spite of no formal training in the language. Perhaps my fluency in French helped.

For the Ordinary of the Mass, the vocabulary isn’t so big that with a little effort it couldn’t be learned. Although it’s probably much harder for natives of some language groups, for example the Asian languages, due to pronunciation issues.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

It’s not really necessary to be fluent in Latin to say any Mass, EF or OF in Latin. Only sufficiently proficient. And that is a very low bar. This mere oblate has learned Latin well enough to read and chant it fluidly, even if I only understand a fraction of what I read.

Enough to be able to be a chorister in a Gregorian schola and chant the LOTH daily in a Latin (I chant it aloud in Latin but reread each psalm silently in French, the Latin being my “mantra” to concentrate the mind). Recently at a private OF Mass in Latin, I was able to do the responses, and read the epistle and psalm aloud in Latin, in spite of no formal training in the language. Perhaps my fluency in French helped.

For the Ordinary of the Mass, the vocabulary isn’t so big that with a little effort it couldn’t be learned. Although it’s probably much harder for natives of some language groups, for example the Asian languages, due to pronunciation issues.

You are quite correct.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Not to derail…but do all exorcists know latin?

And if so, why is this a requirement for them and not all priests.

No. There is no requirement that a priest named by his Bishop be more proficient in Latin. There are very important requirements that would guide the Bishop…but not Latin.

 

[XXI_4]

I’m with Fr. Mitch Pacwa on this one. Forget the Latin mass. Let’s re-institute the “original” Aramaic mass. Probably Fr. Mitch and Jim Caviezel are the only two who could offer it. Well, Jim offered it in the movie…

I’m Maronite and parts of our liturgy are in Syriac Aramaic. The consecration is always sung in it. It’s beautiful.

 

[ProVobis]

That’s good, but it still is a far distance from studying these languages, and being fluent enough to say mass in Latin.

I believe there are about 600 distinct Latin words used in the EF. More than that in the OF being that there are more options. It’s not necessary to have studied Latin from youth to be able to say the Mass in Latin. Two or three years of Collins’ Primer to Ecclesiastical Latin should do it.

 

[ProVobis]

Well, have the various national conferences established programs that require some knowledge of Latin? I am interested in the USA, but also any other country.

I was going to say, it defeats the purpose of the Church using Latin if Canon 249 applies only to certain countries. People travel a lot these days and probably would like to recognize the Mass in other than the local vernacular.

 

[thistle]

I believe there are about 600 distinct Latin words used in the EF. More than that in the OF being that there are more options. It’s not necessary to have studied Latin from youth to be able to say the Mass in Latin. Two or three years of Collins’ Primer to Ecclesiastical Latin should do it.

My understanding from Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio is that its not enough to be able to say the Mass in Latin by simply memorising the prayers. The priest would have to be proficient in Latin, albeit not necessarily fluent.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

My understanding from Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio is that its not enough to be able to say the Mass in Latin by simply memorising the prayers. The priest would have to be proficient in Latin, albeit not necessarily fluent.

One should have a sense of the language beyond mimicry of sound. That is certainly correct.

Proficient in the language, however, would be a bit too high.

The word Pope Benedict actually used in the motu proprio I would render as sufficient or adequate. It is the term, actually, that is used when assessing students simply on a pass/fail basis to state that they were deemed to be beyond the threshold of passing.

 

[lynnvinc]

I don’t think so, but climate change is required.

That’s great. Thanks for sharing that.

However, it hasn’t trickled down to the parishes yet. Global warming is never brought up in homilies at our church.

However, our priest is a naturalist (into the natural species of our area) AND he includes a lot of traditional aspects in the Mass – some Latin, the priest facing the tabernacle behind the altar (ad orientem) for consecration, choir in a loft at the back of the church, etc. Our priest does know Latin very well and could do fully Latin Masses. I’m thinking we might get some in the future.

I was reared a Protestant, but studied Latin in high school over 55 years ago, and wouldn’t mind some Latin Masses & boning up on my Latin. My husband (born-Catholic in his mid-70s) fondly remembers the Latin masses. I attended one as a teen doing a sleep over at my Catholic friend’s home.

As for environmental issues, I think those who are more religious generally tend to be more environmentally attuned, more into finding God everywhere, including in nature. More into seeing nature as God’s creation and not just a bunch of resources to be exploited, without concern for the well-being of others or future generations. They would be the ones most concerned about global warming and doing what we can to reduce our harm to others and God’s creation. It should be brought up in Mass (in the local dialect ).

 

[jas84173]

I was just curious because I read recently that the Roman Missal introduced in 1969 ( which we use now in a 3rd edition introduces in 2002), should not be thought of as different from the 1962 Roman Missal, but of ordinary and extraordinary forms of Mass. I believe it was Pope Benedict that made this decree in 2007, that both are legal forms of performing Mass and we shouldn’t think of the extraordinary form as a use not allowed anymore. I believe by Church rites, use of the 1962 Missal is still completely fine if chosen to use it. I have noticed a lot of younger peers interested in the extraordinary form. Sometimes I wonder if perhaps that form should be reintroduced, as it was the form for over 400 years, however that’s a discussion for a different thread I suppose.

 

[ProVobis]

My understanding from Pope Benedict’s Motu Proprio is that its not enough to be able to say the Mass in Latin by simply memorising the prayers. The priest would have to be proficient in Latin, albeit not necessarily fluent.

You’re right but doesn’t Canon 249 already do that?

 

[Digitonomy]

Well, have the various national conferences established programs that require some knowledge of Latin? I am interested in the USA, but also any other country.

From a post I made in a thread 2 years ago:

If you read carefully, you’ll see that Canon 249 describes a requirement that applies to the Charter of Priestly Formation, not a requirement that applies to seminarians, much less priests in general.

If you look up the United States version, the Program of Priestly Formation, Fifth Edition, you’ll find that Latin is mainly prescribed as a recommended prerequisite to be completed in pre-theology. In other words, there is no canonical requirement that priests know Latin. Rather, the Church has tried to create a system wherein priests DO know Latin.

That said, it looks like the Charter of Priestly Formation is mainly for diocesan priests. I didn’t have time to read through the section of canon law on religious institutes, so even the Charter provisions above may not apply to religious priests.

 

[otjm]

I’m with Fr. Mitch Pacwa on this one. Forget the Latin mass. Let’s re-institute the “original” Aramaic mass. Probably Fr. Mitch and Jim Caviezel are the only two who could offer it. Well, Jim offered it in the movie…

10 points! Oh, heck, I’ll give you 100 points!

 

[otjm]

Check with the Chaldeans. They never abandoned Aramaic and you should be able to find plenty of priests who are fluent.

Not to mention the Maronites.

 

[otjm]

I’m not sure as far as my local seminary goes. I’m sure there is an option if one wishes to seek it out. I know a young priest in his thirties who graduated from the local seminary who celebrates the extraordinary form often. I often find the masses he celebrates to be more on point than some of the old timers. Perhaps because he learned it from study and isn’t coming at it from a nostalgia standpoint. He did tell me that (at least in our seminary) having an interest in the EF you have to talk to the right people because a lot of the older staff tend to correlate interest in the old rites with an anti-Vatican II attitude even if that is not the case.

There just might be some validity in the older staff’s attitude. If you have been whacked with a two by four several times, you might be inclined to presume that someone approaching you with a two by four is intent on whacking you again, rather than assuming they are intent on building something. Certainly not a majority of people preferring the EF are anti-Vatican 2; but one only has to be berated vociferously by a few to have that mistaken opinion.

Or as one wag put it: the cat who sits on a hot stove doesn’t sit on another hot stove; and a smart cat doesn’t sit on a cold one.

 

[Kielbasi]

Check with the Chaldeans. They never abandoned Aramaic and you should be able to find plenty of priests who are fluent.

Is there an approved Aramaic translation of the Latin rite, so Aramaic speakers of this rite can have Mass in the vernacular?

 

[babochka]

Is there an approved Aramaic translation of the Latin rite, so Aramaic speakers of this rite can have Mass in the vernacular?

I would be surprised if there were enough Aramaic speakers of the Latin Rite for there to be any demand at all for that.