Is it a sin or sinful to smoke marijuana?

[Coder]

Compare alcohol to marijuana:

Moderate drinking consists of one or two drinks. Red wine can be excellent for the heart and one or two glasses may relax one a bit and increase their sociability but they will not be drunk. Also, apparently moderate drinking does not damage the brain and may even promote brain growth.

The entire purpose (except medical) of smoking marijuana is to alter the mental state in a way that distorts one’s perception of reality (the “high”). It also affects the ability to concentrate. Long term it can damage the brain and increase risk of heart attack.

We must use discernment when comparing alcohol to marijuana. The same concept of moderate does not apply to marijuana as it does to alcohol. Basically, marijuana either causes its effects or it doesn’t. Certainly alcohol can be very harmful if abused. However, some forms of alcohol can be healthful if used lightly (in moderation). A moderate amount of alcohol can cause a mild relaxed effect with no significant loss of self control, sense of self, and concentration.

The Church wisely teaches that moderate alcohol use is acceptable and can be good. Marijuana lacks redeeming qualities and is to be rejected.

Consider a small child. Could that child still experience a normal intelligent loving relationship with a parent after that parent has sipped two glasses of wine? Absolutely. How about if the parent was “high” on marijuana? No.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Compare alcohol to marijuana:

Moderate drinking consists of one or two drinks. Red wine can be excellent for the heart and the effects of two glasses may relax one a bit and increase their sociability but they will not be drunk. Also, apparently moderate drinking does not damage the brain and may even promote brain growth.

The entire purpose (except medical) of smoking marijuana is to alter the mental state in a way that distorts one’s perception of reality (the “high”). It also affects the ability to concentrate. Long term it can damage the brain and increase risk of heart attack.

how is relaxing one a bit and increasing sociability not altering the mental state? those are the exact reasons i like to smoke.

what long term brain damage? independent studies havent concluded that, for every study you can find i am sure i can find one too.

We must use discernment when comparing alcohol to marijuana. The same concept of moderate does not apply to marijuana as it does to alcohol. Basically, marijuana either causes its effects or it doesn’t.

from more than 20 years of experience i can assure you that there is a continuum of effect for both substances, it is entirely a matter of tolerance

A moderate amount of alcohol can cause a mild relaxed effect with no significant loss of self control, sense of self, and concentration.

as can a moderate amount of marijuana.

The Church wisely teaches that moderate alcohol use is acceptable and can be good. Marijuana lacks redeeming qualities and is to be rejected.

where are the millions of marijaunaholics? maybe they are hiding behind all those tens of millions of alcoholics.

Consider a small child. Could that child still experience a normal intelligent loving relationship with a parent after that parent has sipped two glasses of wine? Absolutely. How about if the parent was “high” on marijuana? No.

the children i have raised would be amazed to find out that i dont love them, you know with all the food, toys, religious instruction, hugs, kisses, swats, etc, you know whats it called? oh parenting.

 

[CWBetts]

smoking is not breaking the law everywhere, that is morality by geography, it denies common sense

You keep saying this with no explantion. Breaking the law is breaking the law. We are to submit to gonernmental authority, whether we agree with the laws or not. You are simply arguing you should not have to obey the law if you do not wnat to. That is the crux of yur argument. Show me how lawlessness is acceptible behavior. Going back to the “moarlity by geogrpahy response” is not an argument. You must show that lawlessness is not a sin.

 

[Coder]

how is relaxing one a bit and increasing sociability not altering the mental state?

It is not the same. Your sense of perception of self and others and reality are not distorted in the same way. The effect of two drinks taken slowly is also quite mild compared to marijuana. I will grant the one can become accustomed to the effects of marijuana so that perception is not altered so severely but it is still altered and performance and concentration are also affected.

the children i have raised…

That is wonderful. However, marijuana serves no purpose in a parent’s relationship with his/her children and is a hindrance at the time the parent is on it.

Yes, we could go back and forth with studies. However, the general concensus is that moderate alcohol use causes little harm compared to the potential health benefits. In fact red wine has powerful antioxidants that can be tremendously beneficial to the heart. Also the concensus is that marijuana can have long term negative effects on the brain, has carcinogens when smoked, and serves no purpose when used but to alter ones perception and it also affects the ability to concentrate.

The Catechism makes it clear that drugs (including excessive alcohol) are immoral. One can pray to Jesus for guidance to discern whether marijuana use is immoral.

We want to be freed of any hindrances to the joy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ana]

I have not posted for awhile, so I would like to reiterate my position, supported by the CCC, that there is no sin, if pot is used therapueticly. I am still on the fence concerning the sinfulness of moderate recreational use in a location where it is illegal.

It is not the same. Your sense of perception of self and others and reality are not distorted in the same way. The effect of two drinks taken slowly is also quite mild compared to marijuana. I will grant the one can become accustomed to the effects of marijuana so that perception is not altered so severely but it is still altered and performance and concentration are also affected.

As someone who has smoked marijuana and has drank alcohol, I would have to disagree. The effects of marijuana are mild in comparison to alcohol. Marijuana does not have the potential to impair judgement the way alcohol does, except you might eat an extra slice of pizza at dinner.

I have heard of many situations where the husband comes home from a long day at work stressed and overwhelmed, has a nightcap to help shed his work skin, and is then able to better interact with his family and show more patience with his children. No sin, right?

I also know of those that do the same thing from smoking a bowl. I can see in both circumstances, how either of these God created substances can be used in a healthy way where the family benefits from a parent who is relaxed and at ease instead of irriitable, stressed and impatient.

The ONLY differance between these two scenarios is that one substance is legal and the other is not. IMO, IF there is sin, it is only because it is illegal. Which would inevitably lead me to my next conclusion, that using pot in moderation, is not in and of itself sinful, but only the law that makes it so.

Is it possible that the law itself is sinful?

I am interested in some quotes from the CCC, referring to unjust laws. My copy is lost somehwere here in the after Christmas Day mess. Can anyone please provide?

 

[Ana]

You keep saying this with no explantion. Breaking the law is breaking the law. We are to submit to gonernmental authority, whether we agree with the laws or not. You are simply arguing you should not have to obey the law if you do not wnat to. That is the crux of yur argument. Show me how lawlessness is acceptible behavior. Going back to the “moarlity by geogrpahy response” is not an argument. You must show that lawlessness is not a sin.

To paraphrase your position, you are saying that to smoke in moderation, where it is legal, there is no sin. To smoke at all where it is illegal is sinful. Is this correct?

Can a law make something that is not immoral, into something that is? This is not a leading question, I am asking myself this as well, and I just don’t know at this point.

 

[jkiernan56]

I have not posted for awhile, so I would like to reiterate my position, supported by the CCC, that there is no sin, if pot is used therapueticly. I am still on the fence concerning the sinfulness of moderate recreational use in a location where it is illegal.

As someone who has smoked marijuana and has drank alcohol, I would have to disagree. The effects of marijuana are mild in comparison to alcohol. Marijuana does not have the potential to impair judgement the way alcohol does, except you might eat an extra slice of pizza at dinner.

I have heard of many situations where the husband comes home from a long day at work stressed and overwhelmed, has a nightcap to help shed his work skin, and is then able to better interact with his family and show more patience with his children. No sin, right?

I also know of those that do the same thing from smoking a bowl. I can see in both circumstances, how either of these God created substances can be used in a healthy way where the family benefits from a parent who is relaxed and at ease instead of irriitable, stressed and impatient.

The ONLY differance between these two scenarios is that one substance is legal and the other is not. IMO, IF there is sin, it is only because it is illegal. Which would inevitably lead me to my next conclusion, that using pot in moderation, is not in and of itself sinful, but only the law that makes it so.

Is it possible that the law itself is sinful?

I am interested in some quotes from the CCC, referring to unjust laws. My copy is lost somehwere here in the after Christmas Day mess. Can anyone please provide?

Here is a link to an online version of the CCC:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[warpspeedpetey]

You keep saying this with no explantion. Breaking the law is breaking the law. We are to submit to gonernmental authority, whether we agree with the laws or not. You are simply arguing you should not have to obey the law if you do not wnat to. That is the crux of yur argument. Show me how lawlessness is acceptible behavior. Going back to the “moarlity by geogrpahy response” is not an argument. You must show that lawlessness is not a sin.

“morality by geography”

an explanation-

smoking weed is not illegal everywhere, there is no consensus on its illegality. its is legal in some places, it is not legal in others, from time to time its legality changes.

an argument basing the morality of smoking weed on whatever the laws happens to be enforced, in whatever geographical region at the time is unreasonable and lacking in common sense.

the morality of an act does not change based on geopgraphy, if i smoke weed here in kansas, or in amsterdam, or in india, or some unknown island in the south pacific, if i smoked 500 years ago, 100 years ago, or yesterday, the moral weight is he same.

your argument only carries weight at certain times and in certain places, it is saying that morality is* relative* to time and geography.i assure you that is not the position of the church. morality must be objective or darn near anything goes.

do you understand now?

 

[Ana]

“morality by geography”

.

it is saying that morality is* relative* to time and geography.

Is it? Can it be? Are there other scenarios where that is the case?

If it was during the prohibition, would I be sinning if I had a glass of wine after dinner from my personal stash?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

It is not the same. Your sense of perception of self and others and reality are not distorted in the same way. The effect of two drinks taken slowly is also quite mild compared to marijuana. I will grant the one can become accustomed to the effects of marijuana so that perception is not altered so severely but it is still altered and performance and concentration are also affected.

do you have any evidence of this?, because i smoke a lot and only drink a little, and i find it to be the opposite situation, like i said it is a matter of tolerance.

That is wonderful. However, marijuana serves no purpose in a parent’s relationship with his/her children and is a hindrance at the time the parent is on it.

stoners dont yell at or beat there kids, thats well known among alcoholics, we play video games with them, watch movies with them, play in the yard etc, no body has ever heard of a child beaten in a marijuana rage.

Yes, we could go back and forth with studies. However, the general concensus is that moderate alcohol use causes little harm compared to the potential health benefits. In fact red wine has powerful antioxidants that can be tremendously beneficial to the heart. Also the concensus is that marijuana can have long term negative effects on the brain, has carcinogens when smoked, and serves no purpose when used but to alter ones perception and it also affects the ability to concentrate.

there is no consensus that marijuana harms your brain cells, if it did i should be a drooling idiot, alcohol also serves no purpose but to alter your perceptions and affect your ability to concentrate, you can get your anti oxidants just as easily elsewhere

The Catechism makes it clear that drugs (including excessive alcohol) are immoral. One can pray to Jesus for guidance to discern whether marijuana use is immoral.

We want to be freed of any hindrances to the joy of the Holy Spirit.

in my estimation, as shown by ythe lack of services to treat marijauna problems, like AA it is far less dangerous than alcohol, and i dont feel as though it is a sin.

 

[jkiernan56]

“morality by geography”

an explanation-

smoking weed is not illegal everywhere, there is no consensus on its illegality. its is legal in some places, it is not legal in others, from time to time its legality changes.

an argument basing the morality of smoking weed on whatever the laws happens to be enforced, in whatever geographical region at the time is unreasonable and lacking in common sense.

the morality of an act does not change based on geopgraphy, if i smoke weed here in kansas, or in amsterdam, or in india, or some unknown island in the south pacific, if i smoked 500 years ago, 100 years ago, or yesterday, the moral weight is he same.

your argument only carries weight at certain times and in certain places, it is saying that morality is* relative* to time and geography.i assure you that is not the position of the church. morality must be objective or darn near anything goes.

do you understand now?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. For some people, it will always be illegal everywhere if it is illegal where they live. It defies common sense. You are banging your head against a wall WarpspeedPetey trying to explain the irrationality of morality by geography to those who will always consider it an illegal act regardless of geography and therefore in their eyes a sinful act - a view I don’t share.

 

[BRZ]

Nothing good ever comes from smoking Marijuana. I don’t need studies or anything to tell me that. Nothing good comes from alcoholism too but drinking a glass or two of wine is not going to change your mental state. If you take one puff of a joint it might not change your mental state either but are you really just going to take one puff and then throw the joint away? I doubt it, you will probably smoke most, if not all, of the joint and smoking a joint will change your mental state.

 

[Ana]

Nothing good ever comes from smoking Marijuana. I don’t need studies or anything to tell me that. Nothing good comes from alcoholism too but drinking a glass or two of wine is not going to change your mental state. If you take one puff of a joint it might not change your mental state either but are you really just going to take one puff and then throw the joint away? I doubt it, you will probably smoke most, if not all, of the joint and smoking a joint will change your mental state.

I don’t smoke a whole joint. One to three tokes is my norm. Then I put it out and relight it as needed. Or a bowl works just as well. I guess there are those that don’t know when to stop drinking as well, but many times they are dealing with a physical addiction to alochol, which is IMPOSSIBLE with marijuana. So you can stop doubting now.

 

[Ana]

Here is a link to an online version of the CCC:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Thank you. I will take some time later to look through it for any referances to unjust laws.

 

[Ana]

If its therapeutic uses are valid, why don’t they figure out some way to administer it without smoking it. I can’t think of any other medicine that is normally administered this way.

You can eat it in a brownie, or create a paste. They have tried to remove the active component from cannibus in a pill form called marinol. According to studies it is not as effective, as when inhaled or eaten. But believe me, they will keep trying as long as there is potential for a profit. In the meantime, they (big pharma) will fight to keep anything illegal that competes with their own pharamaceutical products and therefore … profits.

 

[jkiernan56]

You can eat it in a brownie, or create a paste. They have tried to remove the active component from cannibus in a pill form called marinol. According to studies it is not as effective, as when inhaled or eaten. But believe me, they will keep trying as long as there is potential for a profit. In the meantime, they (big pharma) will fight to keep anything illegal that competes with their own pharamaceutical products and therefore … profits.

There is a Showtime series called Weeds you might find interesting. Some of the episodes are about recipes that can be used with cannabis.

 

[Ana]

There is a Showtime series called Weeds you might find interesting. Some of the episodes are about recipes that can be used with cannabis.

I watched a few episodes in the earlier seasons. I thought it was really funny. Then the next few times I watched, it seemed that there was always a really raunchy sex scene, and I stopped watching it. Maybe it’s better now.

I didn’t know about the recipes. I’ll have to ask my brother, he watches the show pretty regularly.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Nothing good ever comes from smoking Marijuana.

unless you have, cancer, glaucoma, HIV, any nausea or wasting diseases, or medication causing those effects. yeah there isnt much good in keeping people with glaucoma from going blind, keep people on chemotherapy eating, etc. after all it aint got none of those all important antioxidants

I don’t need studies or anything to tell me that.

good, because thats not what the studies would tell you

Nothing good comes from alcoholism too but drinking a glass or two of wine is not going to change your mental state. If you take one puff of a joint it might not change your mental state either but are you really just going to take one puff and then throw the joint away? I doubt it, you will probably smoke most, if not all, of the joint and smoking a joint will change your mental state.

what? thats like saying you cant have a glass of wine, you have to drink the whole bottle.

but the idea of a change in ‘mental state’ is also a red herring, caffeine, sugar, chocolate, vitamins, psychotropic medications, etc. all change your mental state, in fact most consumption of them are meant to create a change in mental state.

i have a hard time seeing the difference between my friend who takes prozac to change mental state and my friend who drinks to change his. one method is acceptable the other is not, but the end goal is the same.

plenty of women talk about needing a chocolate fix, are they sinning, in seeking to change their mental state? i hardly think so.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. For some people, it will always be illegal everywhere if it is illegal where they live. It defies common sense. You are banging your head against a wall WarpspeedPetey trying to explain the irrationality of morality by geography to those who will always consider it an illegal act regardless of geography and therefore in their eyes a sinful act - a view I don’t share.

the softest substance, water

wears away the hardest stone

 

[Ana]

Is it possible that the law itself is sinful?

I am interested in some quotes from the CCC, referring to unjust laws. My copy is lost somehwere here in the after Christmas Day mess. Can anyone please provide?

I try not to quote myself, but I found these quotes from the CCC, concerning moral authority and unjust laws VERY VERY interesting.

READ CAREFULLY:

“1902 Authority does not derive it’s moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a “moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility.”:21”

“A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason, it is said to be an unjust law and thus has not so much the nature of the law as of a kind of violence.22”

(bolding and italics are mine) (I don’t know why my letters are blue)

I think it is clear what the Church has to say. It doesn’t say anything about being only bound to laws that directly contradict Church teaching, but to laws that contradict COMMON SENSE, as in “morality by geography.” Happy warpspeedpetey? I am.

The Church always makes sense, even when it’s members may not. Thank you Jesus, for the holy guidance and wisdom of the Catholic Church.

Rome has spoken … case closed!!