Is it a sin or sinful to smoke marijuana?

[Ana]

I just have to comment on the earlier posts that claim that it is impossible to smoke pot without being high. I have to point out, that like alcohol, the high increases with the amount consumed. It is possible and likely to take one or two hits and still be of sound mind, while benefiting from the therepeutic properties of this healing herb.

There may be a little fuzzyness for the 20 or so minutes immediately following the consumption, but it goes away quickly, leaving only the therapeutic benefits behind. I have heard of many OTC drugs that have similar side effects. May cause drowsiness, take care operating machinery etc.

 

[jkiernan56]

I just have to comment on the earlier posts that claim that it is impossible to smoke pot without being high. I have to point out, that like alcohol, the high increases with the amount consumed. It is possible and likely to take one or two hits and still be of sound mind, while benefiting from the therepeutic properties of this healing herb.

There may be a little fuzzyness for the 20 or so minutes immediately following the consumption, but it goes away quickly, leaving only the therapeutic benefits behind. I have heard of many OTC drugs that have similar side effects. May cause drowsiness, take care operating machinery etc.

Ana, since you were so open with us, that gives me courage to do the same. I will go on record by saying that I smoke marijuana on occasion. It doesn’t matter to me one bit that someone else has a problem with that - thats their problem and not mine. If they want to judge me, then so be it. I know I am what I am in the Lord’s eyes and that He alone knows my heart. As for it being sinful, I stand behind St. Paul’s words:

“Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.”

I do not think we have carte blanche just to do whatever we want whenever we want. Nor do I think it is OK to act irresponsibly. Each person must judge their own circumstances and conscience and decide for themselves on this subject. Your telling me it is not OK, doesn’t make it not OK for me. Maybe for you it is not OK. But don’t pass judgement on me. I’m sure if you are honest with God in prayer, you will have plenty on your own plate to deal with.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

You can take one drink, or two, enjoy it and stop there. You don’t need to get drunk to enjoy alcohol.
Can you enjoy pot without getting high?

‘drunk’ and ‘high’ are not equal states of inebriation, whether you know it or not 2 drinks is on the way to drunk. 2 tokes is a pleasant high, nothing like being drunk

drunk causes moral and judgement lapses, high does not.

there is a much greater stretch between high and a drunk like state, than there is between a couple of drinks and being drunk.

so to repeat.

the state of being ‘high’ and the state of being ‘drunk’
are not the same .

**Even if true, so what? They had marijuana in China, therefore **they must have had it in Isreal? Poor logic.

thats not the correct conclusion, the point was that marijauna grows everywhere but antartica. everyone every where has access to it, and has for thousands of years

In any case, some guy in China smoked weed nearly three thousand years ago, therefore it must be safe?

no, but i would call the anecdotal evidence of millions and millions of users over thousands of years to be a huge sample size compared to rigorous modern studies, the size of which gives credence to the safety and efficacy of marijuana

Even if they did know of it, so what?
The Scripture forbids us to get drunk on wine, but it says nothing about whiskey, nor does it mention brandy. So we can get drunk on whiskey and brandy - right!?

whiskey and brandy are just various distillations of wine, they have the exact same active chemical ingredient, ethanol

but that aside, once again ‘high’ and ‘drunk’ are two completely unrelated phenomenon. they cannot be compared

**Except that, if you can’t enjoy it unless you get high, then you can’t “use it in moderation”. **

apples and oranges, as above

Except that “it’s less dangerous than alcohol” does not mean it’s safe.

no, billions of tests over millennium say that its safe, it may be anecdotal evidence but the sample size is so large that credence can be lent to its inferences

Except that you prove nothing about pot by pointing to alcohol.

its not about proof it offers a possible reason that marijuana is not mentioned in the scripture, even though it was a known substance

 

[warpspeedpetey]

im really only interested in the opinion of people who have some real experience with marijuana, personally. people who have not smoked pot for more than a few times, simply have an opinion, that those of us who have, know is generally false.

i dont mean to be rude, but i see a lot of unsubstantiated opinion, from people with no experience, and it clouds the issue. this is an attempt to clarify it:thumbsup:

 

[redhen]

The fact that our brains respond to cannabis does not prove they were intended to do so. We respond to excessive alcohol by becoming drunk: that does not prove we were intended to be drunk, nor that we should be so.

Like I said, alcohol takes a shotgun approach, it depresses the central nervous system indiscriminately.

Cannabinoids attach to CB receptors, the same way that neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine bind to their respective receptors.

 

[Writer]

They declared religion illegal in Soviet Russia, does that make religion sinful?

Read Sophocles’ “Antigone.” Or, for that matter, read the story of Saint Stephen. Sometimes unjust laws need to be opposed, but this is not an unjust law. (I realize this point could be debated by excited “pot-heads,” but the fact of the matter is that most Americans believe that this category is selfish and wrong. Our laws reflect these Judeo-Christian values.) Trying to draw a comparison between one’s desire for religious freedom and the ease of destroying one’s brain with drugs is pretty silly.

As far as the earlier arguments regarding alcohol, water can also be used inappropriately. From drowing to hyperhydration, water can also result in ill effects or death. Under the logic used in those prior posts, water would then constitute an evil. Common sense, however, tells us otherwise.

Pot does serious damage to the body. Since the body is God’s temple and we are entrusted with its care, the use of drugs certainly constitutes a serious sin. This doesn’t even begin to hit on issues relating to being a poor witness to others or supporting the black market trade of drugs. Yes, it’s true that water and French Fries can also be used for ill, but their effects (and the moral and societal implications of said use) are far less severe. After all, when is the last time you heard of a robbery or “home invasion” to steal French Fries?

If you disagree, you might want to read what the CCC tells us about the use of illegal drugs.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Pot does serious damage to the body.

so as long as its done in a place where its legal than its fine, thats a good argument.

so a guy in amsterdam, michigan, california, or bolivia is not sinning, but a guy in other more restrictive states is?

what is that morality by geography?

that violates common sense

 

[jkiernan56]

Read Sophocles’ “Antigone.” Or, for that matter, read the story of Saint Stephen. Sometimes unjust laws need to be opposed, but this is not an unjust law. (I realize this point could be debated by excited “pot-heads,” but the fact of the matter is that most Americans believe that this category is selfish and wrong. Our laws reflect these Judeo-Christian values.) Trying to draw a comparison between one’s desire for religious freedom and the ease of destroying one’s brain with drugs is pretty silly.

As far as the earlier arguments regarding alcohol, water can also be used inappropriately. From drowing to hyperhydration, water can also result in ill effects or death. Under the logic used in those prior posts, water would then constitute an evil. Common sense, however, tells us otherwise.

Pot does serious damage to the body. Since the body is God’s temple and we are entrusted with its care, the use of drugs certainly constitutes a serious sin. This doesn’t even begin to hit on issues relating to being a poor witness to others or supporting the black market trade of drugs. Yes, it’s true that water and French Fries can also be used for ill, but their effects (and the moral and societal implications of said use) are far less severe. After all, when is the last time you heard of a robbery or “home invasion” to steal French Fries?

If you disagree, you might want to read what the CCC tells us about the use of illegal drugs.

I agree with you Writer that using something inappropriately and inordinately can result in damage. But the object that is being used is not evil. It is how the object is used and the intentions of the person. I disagree with your conclusion. If you really think the way you do, you definitely should avoid any use of alcohol. Otherwise I’d say you are a hypocrite.

 

[jkiernan56]

so as long as its done in a place where its legal than its fine, thats a good argument.

so a guy in amsterdam, michigan, california, or bolivia is not sinning, but a guy in other more restrictive states is?

what is that morality by geography?

that violates common sense

Common sense is not so common … LOL:shrug:

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Common sense is not so common … LOL:shrug:

and people who dont have it, dont know it,

 

[Writer]

I agree with you Writer that using something inappropriately and inordinately can result in damage. But the object that is being used is not evil. It is how the object is used and the intentions of the person. I disagree with your conclusion. If you really think the way you do, you definitely should avoid any use of alcohol. Otherwise I’d say you are a hypocrite.

How about this… Use of illicit drugs is wrong. Hope that clears it all up now! Thanks.

Oh, regarding the comment on alcohol. Give me a break. Not only is alcohol legal, but, in small amounts, we all recognize it does far less harm. (As a matter of fact, red wine has demonstrated health benefits.) All the common sense required for that is to think back to conversations with those we know to use pot. One doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist to observe the signs, the dulling of the mind, etc. According to the White House’s Drug Policy Statement, marijuana does serious physical harm.

"Marijuana harms in many ways, and kids are the most vulnerable to its damaging effects. Use of the drug can lead to significant health, safety, social, and learning or behavioral problems, especially for young users. Making matters worse is the fact that the mar ijuana available today is more potent than ever. Shortterm effects of marijuana use include memory loss, distorted perception, trouble with thinking and problemsolving, and anxiety. Students who use marijuana may find it hard to learn, thus jeopardizing their ability to achieve their full potential."

Here’s an example of a news report in my state where a home invasion recently took place to seize the medical marijuana.

oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2008/09/men_sentenced_in_home_invasion.html

Last comment on the geographical argument. Not to be too technical, but…give me a break. Rather than rationalizing bad behavior, why don’t you take the focus off yourself and your desire for escapism and focus on doing real good? If something is objectively wrong (as drug abuse is), it is wrong wherever it is performed. The laws of the government are only one consideration. Sorry to break the news to you, but “if it feels good, do it” really doesn’t work so well with regards to the Catholic Church–or Christianity in general.

 

[jkiernan56]

How about this… Use of illicit drugs is wrong. Hope that clears it all up now! Thanks.

Oh, regarding the comment on alcohol. Give me a break. Not only is alcohol legal, but, in small amounts, we all recognize it does far less harm. (As a matter of fact, red wine has demonstrated health benefits.) All the common sense required for that is to think back to conversations with those we know to use pot. One doesn’t have to be a rocket scientist to observe the signs, the dulling of the mind, etc.

Here’s an example of a news report in my state where a home invasion recently took place to seize the medical marijuana.

oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2008/09/men_sentenced_in_home_invasion.html

Thanks for your opinion. Yes, you cleared it all up.

As far as your comments on alcohol, you give me a break.

Do I need to cite some statistics about its abuse and what it has done to individuals, let alone to society? Does it’s abuse mean we should go back to prohibition? Get real

I don’t buy your argument that just because it is illicit, that it is also immoral. Some states have already legalized it for medical reasons. Do you even deny there are legitimate medical reasons? Probably not - its obvious you are extremely biased and predisposed to your answers.

As far as your common sense argument, that is absolutely ridiculous. Give me a break again … we are not talking here about people who abuse a drug … I could use the same argument going to the bar and observing a few of the patrons who are regulars … what do you think the alcohol has done to their minds? Alcohol is a barbituate, a downer. Anything that is misused and abused is not good for you. But the abuse of something is not what we are discussing here.

Like I said earlier … common sense is not so common as observed in some of your statements. Take the plank out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter out of others who don’t fit into your little box.

Bottoms up??? Cheers!!!

 

[Writer]

Thanks for your opinion. Yes, you cleared it all up.

As far as your comments on alcohol, you give me a break.

Do I need to cite some statistics about its abuse and what it has done to individuals, let alone to society? Does it’s abuse mean we should go back to prohibition? Get real

I don’t buy your argument that just because it is illicit, that it is also immoral. Some states have already legalized it for medical reasons. Do you even deny there are legitimate medical reasons? Probably not - its obvious you are extremely biased and predisposed to your answers.

As far as your common sense argument, that is absolutely ridiculous. Give me a break again … we are not talking here about people who abuse a drug … I could use the same argument going to the bar and observing a few of the patrons who are regulars … what do you think the alcohol has done to their minds? Alcohol is a barbituate, a downer. Anything that is misused and abused is not good for you. But the abuse of something is not what we are discussing here.

Like I said earlier … common sense is not so common as observed in some of your statements. Take the plank out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter out of others who don’t fit into your little box.

Bottoms up??? Cheers!!!

This will be my last post. No one is suggesting that alcohol is without risks, only raising it as a point of discussion. The bottom line for Catholics is that recreational drug abuse is a sin. If you disagree with that, fine, but you disagree with the CCC–and the Church. If you’re indeed a Catholic, you would do well to bear that in mind. After all, it’s not about you, it’s about Him.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

This will be my last post. No one is suggesting that alcohol is without risks, only raising it as a point of discussion. The bottom line for Catholics is that recreational drug abuse is a sin. If you disagree with that, fine, but you disagree with the CCC–and the Church. If you’re indeed a Catholic, you would do well to bear that in mind. After all, it’s not about you, it’s about Him.

this wont be my last post. the phrase recreational drug abuse is an oxymoron, if its recreational its not abuse.

you misinterpret the CCC based on cultural antidrug values that are a creation of propaganda like the movie reefer madness.

unless one smokes pot ones self more than a couple of times, one has no idea what one talks about

 

[jkiernan56]

This will be my last post. No one is suggesting that alcohol is without risks, only raising it as a point of discussion. The bottom line for Catholics is that recreational drug abuse is a sin. If you disagree with that, fine, but you disagree with the CCC–and the Church. If you’re indeed a Catholic, you would do well to bear that in mind. After all, it’s not about you, it’s about Him.

Here is the actual CCC text again:

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

The CCC is very clear on excessive use and abuse of a substance. But as far as the use of drugs - more clarification is needed. Common sense tells us that it can’t mean we shouldn’t use cough medicine, drink coffee or alcohol even though they are drugs too. It does mention using drugs “strictly” for therapeutic grounds. Thats why I like to have a glass of wine when I get home from work each night. It is very therapeutic. Is it possible that a person can responsibly use marijuana moderately (not in excess) for therapeutic reasons? Why are some states legalizing it for medical purposes? In an earlier post I had a link to a study that shows promising results for alzheimers patients given the main ingredient in marijuana - THC. The CCC is not black and white on the use of marijuana. Therefore I do not agree with your statement that my position disagrees with the CCC.

The CCC does say that "Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law. " No objection here. This is very clear.

Bottom line - your argument Writer that the use of marijuana is a sin and anti-Catholic does not hold weight. I’m sure for you Writer that using marijuana would be a sin. Read the words of St. Paul: "“Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, **I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean, ** "

I make the distinction between therapeutic use and ABUSE as you mention Writer. I agree that recreational drug ABUSE could be sinful. I’m sure for you that ABUSE means any amount of marijuana use. Your definition of ABUSE and mine are not the same.

Again, thank you Writer for your opinion.

 

[Colin_Fry]

Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Colin_Fry:
ok, so its back to morality by geography. its not illicit in many areas.

here it seems we must apply some common sense

 

[Reepicheep]

drunk causes moral and judgement lapses, high does not.

Do you assert that being high does not interfere with judgement or reasoning power?

there is a much greater stretch between high and a drunk like state, than there is between a couple of drinks and being drunk.
so to repeat.
the state of being ‘high’ and the state of being ‘drunk’
are not the same .

Both involve losing the power of sound judgement.

thats not the correct conclusion, the point was that marijauna grows everywhere but antartica. everyone every where has access to it, and has for thousands of years

I question this assertion. Please cite your source. What evidence have you that marijuana existed “everywhere but antarctica” for “thousands of years”?

no, but i would call the anecdotal evidence of millions and millions of users over thousands of years to be a huge sample size compared to rigorous modern studies, the size of which gives credence to the safety and efficacy of marijuana

Again, please cite your sources. What evidence have you that these millions and millions of users ever existed? Or that their experience has been that pot is harmless?

whiskey and brandy are just various distillations of wine, they have the exact same active chemical ingredient, ethanol

but that aside, once again ‘high’ and ‘drunk’ are two completely unrelated phenomenon. they cannot be compared

Loss of judgement, loss of inhibitions, loss of control - habit forming.

no, billions of tests over millennium say that its safe, it may be anecdotal evidence but the sample size is so large that credence can be lent to its inferences

Billions of tests by whom? Show me evidence that these millions and millions of users even existed.
Even if they had, the sample size means nothing if the sample is biased.
Do you believe an alcoholic who insists there’s nothing wrong with his drinking habit, and it’s not hurting him, even when you can see the harm it does? Why then believe a pothead who insists pot doesn’t do him any harm, if you can see evidence that it does?

its not about proof it offers a possible reason that marijuana is not mentioned in the scripture, even though it was a known substance

Lots of things are not mentioned in scripture. The lack of evidence is not evidence.

 

[jkarp]

You’re comparing pot to Christianity?
Besides, we have a moral duty to obey the law unless the law commands us to sin . . .

This is exactly what I said in a follow-up post several days ago.

 

[Ana]

Here is the actual CCC text again:

" Their use, except on strictly therapuetic grounds, is a grave offense."

I bolded it, maybe it will be read this time.