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warpspeedpetey
Guest
because its not rational, and that is what we are rational, opinion is no good enough we need reason.
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warpspeedpetey
Guest
the problem is that you dont extend that argument to drinking, which is done fro recreation. it tastes good and its relaxing. same way with a bowl o’ sticky icky! it tastes good and its relaxing.
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rinnie
Guest
I think also something that was never really brought up, and if it was I apologize is how bad it really is for you. I don’t think studies were around before to prove this. Now there is, It hurts your brain cells alot. Before it was said it was safe, etc. now studies show how bad it really is for you.
Is it a sin, yes it is. Mortal no. and yes it is like drinking, etc and can become very addictive. You can have a glass of wine or two and it can be okay. But a joint or two is different. Also its still not legal.
Is it a sin, yes it is. Mortal no. and yes it is like drinking, etc and can become very addictive. You can have a glass of wine or two and it can be okay. But a joint or two is different. Also its still not legal.
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jkiernan56
Guest
Is this one of the studies that you were referring to Rinnie?
Pot joins the fight against Alzheimer’s, memory loss
sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=pot-joins-the-fight-against-alzheim-2008-11-19
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CWBetts
Guest
Alcohol is legal for those over 21. Marijuana is not. My main argument has been that of legality. We are not to break laws unless they contrary to teachings of the Church. So tell me, where, in the Chatgechism, Canon Law, or the Scriptures are we commanded to smoke marijuana? Unless you can provide this, we must obey the law.
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jkiernan56
Guest
I agree - we should obey the law unless it is contra to Church teaching. In California it has been legalized. What do you have to say if someone is smoking pot and NOT breaking the law?
The idea that everything has to be in the Bible in order to be true, is a Protestant premise - not a Catholic one. What we do cannot be in violation of scripture and the teachings of the Church, but it does not have to be explicitly in the Bible for something to be OK or not OK
I am just trying to get people to realize this thread on the use of marijuana is not so black and white as some seem to make it out to be. There are many colors in the rainbow.
Personally I think some people who hold such extreme views might benefit from a toke or two.
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MarcellusW
Guest
Like I said, its not an opinion about the mortal sin part. If you mean to say whether or not Marijuana is acceptable within the Catholic religion, then it is wrong. If you arent Catholic then what I said will certainly sound like an opinion. If you are Catholic, you are bound to follow the Church’s teachings like every other person is. You do a disservice to other Catholics trying to be faithful by claiming something to be opinion when it is in fact Magisterial teaching in the Catechism.
Intoxication for the sake of intoxication is a grave sin.
Not an opinion.
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MarcellusW
Guest
For those who think drug use for non-medicinal purposes is a matter of opinion:
"2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm#II
"2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm#II
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jkiernan56
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It is people like you who misrepresent Catholic teaching and give other people wrong ideas about Catholics and the Catholic Church. It is sad to say your expression of rigidity comes from a misinterpretation of the CCC and who knows what other factors/life experiences.
Just as moderate and responsible use of alcohol is acceptible in the Church, the same argument can be made and supported with the proper use of marijuana. You brought up the subject of intoxification earlier. I have to assume by that you meant to get drunk. Clearly the Church and scripture do not encourage that behavior. Anyone smoking marijuana will get a “high” (unless they were ripped off … lol) … but did you know there are degrees to that as well? A toke or two of marijuana does not put a person into a state of slobbering on themselves and incoherent to others. You are sadly mistaken. And honestly, I think you are definitely the kind of person who might be able to benefit from its medicinal/therapeutic use. You might be able to start seeing other colors in the universe other than black and white.
Marcellus - Merry Christman and bottoms up!!! I hope Santa brings you the kind of alcohol you like to drink that will cheer you up. Heaven knows you seem to need it.
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warpspeedpetey
Guest
ive never seen a study that wasnt funded by a group with an agenda, and as a matter long experience i dont know anyone who has ever been diagnosed with any brain damage from smoking, thats a myth as far as i have seen.
if true where are the widespread rehab programs for marijuana abuse?, we have them for alcohol, cocaine, opiates, etc. but we dont have hardly any for marijuana.
why, because marijuana addiction is a myth. pretty darn rare. and only psychological in those cases, marijuana is not physically addictive.
if you ingest equal amounts of the active ingredient, how?
depends where your at.
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jkiernan56
Guest
Like I said, your interpretation of what the CCC is saying is different than mine. As far as the comment I made earlier about Santa bringing you alcohol for Christmas, please disregard that. I just realized that anything that might make you smile might be an occasion of sin for you.
Anyone care to voice their interpretation of the CCC? Do people really think that the CCC is teaching that legal, moderate, and responsible use of marijuana falls into the category of grave sin as Marcellus indicates? I would love to hear some ideas from others on this.
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CWBetts
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This is my last post on this thread. Even when faced with the Catechism, you refuse to accept that it is wrong. I am glad to know that you are so enlightened that you can point out where the Catechism is incorrect. And why? So you can get stoned. The CCC says it very clearly. Using illegal drugs is A GRAVE SIN. It is a grave matter. YOu now have ful knowledge. So the next time you smoke marijuana with deliberite intent, you should not present yourself for Communion until you deal with this sin WITH PERFECT CONTRITION. That means you have a desire to leave your sin behind you. All manner of reason has been used, but that obviously is ineffective. I have tried, nad failed, but only because you have failed to listen
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warpspeedpetey
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thats the point, its not illegal everywhere, alcohol is illegal in large parts of the world, but not everywhere.
if i take a drink somewhere it is illegal to drink alcohol, say saudi arabia am i commiting a sin? yes, by your reasoning
if i smoke pot where its legal am i committing a sin? no, by your reasoning
thats why your argument from legality fails, its only valid at certain places and certain times.
i can avoid sin in your model by smoking somewhere it is legal.
and what will happen when it is eventually legalized in my state? then i can morally smoke?
that argument is false on its face.
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warpspeedpetey
Guest
alcohol and tobacco are drugs and their abuse is a sin, seems like the use of ‘drugs’ here is open to common sense interpretation.
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warpspeedpetey
Guest
the catechism is open to interpretation on the matter as alcohol and tobacco are drugs as well.
illegal drugs, pot is not illegal everywhere and wont be here much longer in the grand scheme of things.
a alck of reason is why we disagree, we heard you we just think your reason is opinion and little else.
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jkiernan56
Guest
CWBetts, here is the actual CCC text again. Would you please point out for me where it says "Using illegal drugs is a grave sin?"
2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the ABUSE of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by DRUNKINESS or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."
The CCC speaks of the ABUSE, DRUNKINESS, endangering safety ON THE ROAD, AT SEA, or IN THE AIR. That is not what we are discussing here. No one here is advocating ABUSE, DRUNKINESS, or putting anyone including themselves at risk on the road, sea, air.
The CCC speaks of the USE OF DRUGS and their use should be based on THERAPEUTIC grounds. Obviously it does not mean cough medicine, aspirin, or even coffee (caffein). So what does the CCC mean when it uses the word “drugs”?
We have already presented to you that marijuana is LEGAL in some places within the US and the world at large. No one is condoning ILLEGAL use. So please stop talking about illegal drug use. This thread is not condoning it.
So if you are able to get out of your own way and be objective, maybe (and I really mean just maybe) you can accept that you and I are BOTH discussing LEGAL drug use.
If you read some of the earlier posts, you will see that some of us DO think the moderate, responsible, legal use of pot can be THERAPEUTIC/MEDICINAL just as ALCOHOL can be. I’m sorry you disagree on that idea. But just because your disagree, does not mean any and all use of marijuana can never be therapetic. I happen to think it can - and by saying this NO ONE is going against the CCC.
Your (mis)representation and (mis)interpretation of what the CCC actually says is full of errors!!!
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MarcellusW
Guest
jkiernan56,
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm#II
Talk to your priest. I can no longer make any other argument with you if you will not address the basic point that the catechism says. It does not even mention intoxication. It says “their use”. You have no basis for argument, it is intellectually dishonest to claim there is room for interpretation for a statement so plain. You are rationilizing.
“Their use, except on strictly therapuetic grounds, is a grave offense.”
I will no longer reply to you directly. But i will keep posting the quotes from the Catechism for sake of others who find this thread and have a chance to be misled by lack of Catholic teaching.
2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law."
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm#II
Talk to your priest. I can no longer make any other argument with you if you will not address the basic point that the catechism says. It does not even mention intoxication. It says “their use”. You have no basis for argument, it is intellectually dishonest to claim there is room for interpretation for a statement so plain. You are rationilizing.
“Their use, except on strictly therapuetic grounds, is a grave offense.”
I will no longer reply to you directly. But i will keep posting the quotes from the Catechism for sake of others who find this thread and have a chance to be misled by lack of Catholic teaching.
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jkiernan56
Guest
Marcellus, you were the one to bring up the word “intoxification”. Go back and look at your post. I was only responding to your use of the word.
Yes I am rationalizing because I am being rational. You are the one who is NOT being rational. You should try some rationalization yourself. I find that it is a good thing.
And honestly Marcellus, your opinion of me does not matter to me and I’m sure the feeling is mutual. And I will continue to correct your misrepresentation and misunderstanding of the CCC. Bottoms up!!! … and Cheers!!! You are a modern day Pharisee in my opinion. I can see why Christ got so angry at them and called them BLIND GUIDES. Sorry, my interpretation of charity and yours are also different.
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nancy_dalrymple
Guest
I believe I did a thread on the subject, and I said that if the doctor ordered it that it would make it legal and the Lord said render to Ceser what is his but look up Math 22-21 also 1st Thes. 5-12-13. They are doing studies to use it for medecine’s but to use it for recreational purposes it’s not of God for you leave yourself wide open for satan to use you. It;s realy something to think about,with all your heart. God bless Nancy
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ChristIsLord
Guest
i find nothing sinful about smoking a little pot, everything in moderation. it’s illegal for no good reason, it’s not nearly as dangerous as alcohol or the narcotics doctors prescribe to people everyday.
i sit on couch and smoke a little at the end of a long day to relax, and there’s nothing wrong with it.
i sit on couch and smoke a little at the end of a long day to relax, and there’s nothing wrong with it.
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