Is it a sin or sinful to smoke marijuana?

[Benedict108]

Purely human ideals and land such as love, family, society, nation, science, art, etc., despite having a crucial importance in the formation of man, not always, for a number of circumstances, can give a complete and definitive meaning to existence. You need the light of transcendence and of Christian revelation. The teaching of the Church, which is pegged to the unfailing word of Christ, gives an enlightening and safe response to questions about the meaning of life, teaching to build on the bedrock of certainty on the doctrinal and moral strength that comes from prayer and the sacraments. The serene conviction of immortality of the soul, the future resurrection of the body and eternal responsibility for their actions is the safest way to prevent the terrible evil of drugs to treat and rehabilitate its poor victims, to reinforce the steadfastness and firmness in the ways of good.

Taken from:DISCORSO DI GIOVANNI PAOLO II
AI PARTECIPANTI ALL’VIII CONVEGNO MONDIALE
DELLE COMUNITÀ TERAPEUTICHE

Retrieved from:vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1984/september/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19840907_comunita-terapeutiche_it.html

Marijuana is indeed classified as a drug. It is prohibited by law. Its side effects were covered in the DEA link I provided in my earlier post. The above give the Holy Father, John Paul II’s opinion in regard to drugs in his discussion on treatment. He stated that it therapeutic uses are misnomers, that drugs are evil. He emphasizes prevention and education. That is the way I see it. No he didn’t say particularly MJ, but he didn’t list every narcotic under the sun either, it is implied.

Pax.

 

[Benedict108]

Oh, PS…I know there are few errors in the translation. I had to use a program to do it as my Italian is not that good that I would attempt to put up a translation in my own words. Sorry about that.

 

[LilyM]

Actually I think it was the Lord who created marijuana … and second … that His intention was that we smoke it … just as alcohol is intended for drinking

Very poor argument. God created opium poppies as well - doesn’t mean we’re meant to ingest the heroin which is derived from them.

They have multiple other legitimate uses - both as flowers (decorative) and poppy seeds (not in quantities that have any sort of narcotic effect) used in cooking cakes and breads.

I know hemp is often used to make clothing, that can probably be done with cannabis too. Even if not - what purpose do venus flytraps serve? None as far as humans are concerned. So God did not necessarily create the cannabis plant to serve any particular purpose as far as humans are concerned.

1. actions injurious to health (abuse or mutilation of the members), destruction of life

Is alcohol injurious to health or abuse of the body, or a destruction of life? No, not when it is used moderately and responsibily in relationship to all other duties in one’s life … temperately as it was mentioned … in proper proportion … place, time, intention … Now, I tell you that the same exact defense can be made for the moderate, responsible, temperate use of marijuana … that definitely has medical benefits … and is extremely therapeutic …

So tell me, PRECISELY how many grammes of THC have scientists determined, after extensive research, constitutes the maximum ‘moderate’ and ‘responsible’ dose? And how ON EARTH do you know how much is in the pot you’re taking?

I can tell you exactly with alcohol - 27 millilitres alcohol volume in your drink each day for women, 41 for men. That’s the maximum consumption which won’t impair health.

And EVERY bottle of alcohol is made under strict quality control and clearly labelled with alcohol content, number of standard drinks per bottle etc so it’s ridiculously easy to precisely determine how much alcohol you’re getting.

When you can measure and discuss - and dish out - the pot with that sort of scientific accuracy, then we might have something to talk about. Pot being a plant, it’d be darn near impossible to be that accurate at the best of times.

In this discussion thread, we have talked extensively about the legality issue. For the sake of argument, lets please both assume that it is legally obtained and used … and not participating in the economics of evil … So like in an equation … with the given that marijuana is being used in a legal manner for the purpose of its medical, therapeutic effects … as espoused by the CCC, how is the responsible, moderate, temperate use of marijuana any different whatsoever from the responsible, moderate, temperate use of alchohol??? Yes, protracted exposure to smoke can have consequences to ones lungs … just as alcohol use can do damage to brain cells in the person who drinks … there is a morality that ok’s the moderate, temperate use of alcohol … even though if abused it might cause damage to one’s health … this exact same case can be made FOR the responsible, moderate, temperate use of marijuana …

Again, when you have glaucoma, AIDS or an actual medical condition that marijuana is specifically allowed to be prescribed for - then I’ll get back to you. ‘It makes me feel less stressed and more sociable’ is NOT a therapeutic purpose - exercise, if you bothered to do any, would also achieve that effect. So would sex (granted that’s not always available) and any other number of non-drug therapies, let alone the legal drugs.

 

[Benedict108]

The duties of citizens

2238 Those subject to authority should regard those in authority as representatives of God, who has made them stewards of his gifts:43 "Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution… Live as free men, yet without using your freedom as a pretext for evil; but live as servants of God."44 Their loyal collaboration includes the right, and at times the duty, to voice their just criticisms of that which seems harmful to the dignity of persons and to the good of the community.

2239 It is the duty of citizens to contribute along with the civil authorities to the good of society in a spirit of truth, justice, solidarity, and freedom. the love and service of one’s country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. Submission to legitimate authorities and service of the common good require citizens to fulfill their roles in the life of the political community.

2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:

Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.45

[Christians] reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners… They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws… So noble is the position to which God has assigned them that they are not allowed to desert it.46

The Apostle exhorts us to offer prayers and thanksgiving for kings and all who exercise authority, "that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way."47

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

2242 The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s."48 “We must obey God rather than men”:49

When citizens are under the oppression of a public authority which oversteps its competence, they should still not refuse to give or to do what is objectively demanded of them by the common good; but it is legitimate for them to defend their own rights and those of their fellow citizens against the abuse of this authority within the limits of the natural law and the Law of the Gospel.50

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Bottom line, we have a responsibility to follow the law. The drug is prohibited. Unless one can prove to that this law is morally opposed to God, you must follow it. To not do so is to sin. Case and point.

 

[ArchAngel15]

This is a good one. Actually I think it was the Lord who created marijuana … and second … that His intention was that we smoke it … just as alcohol is intended for drinking

I believe just as you stated earlier that alcohol was man made and MJ was made from God, the notion to smoke it though is perhaps man made as well. You mentioned earlier that canibus may have been used in the oil. If that is indeed true perhaps that was his intention with canibus, and the smoking that you speak of was not.

I find the argument of using illegal drug in moderation rather weak. Would you condone the use of any drug in moderation? How about Crack/cocaine or Meth in moderation? Or perhaps something that may be less addictive like extasy in moderation?

You say that it brings you closer to God. Would it not be an amazing occurrence if you didn’t need to use drugs to achieve this? Maybe you can pray to God to help get closer to him with your own power and will, and just engage in the smoking of MJ for the other therapeutic benefits you receive…

I wonder if you are asking this question of MJ being sinful because perhaps deep down you may really think that it is?

Just curious do you engage in the smoking of any other plants that God created? I once smoked a cinnamon stick when I didn’t have any pot LoL… It was weird, but that was a long time ago.

 

[jkiernan56]

Bottom line, we have a responsibility to follow the law. The drug is prohibited. Unless one can prove to that this law is morally opposed to God, you must follow it. To not do so is to sin. Case and point.

Again with all due respect, I am in COMPLETE agreement with you on what you mention here. We do have a responsibility to obey the law - no question - no objections - not one iota of a move of the will or thought away from that idea.

If you will go back and read some of the earlier posts, you will find that this has been discussed ad nauseum … that we agree that the use of marijuana should be legal … and also not obtained through the participation in the economics of evil … just as looking at porn is a participation in the economics of evil …

There is a move across the land to legalize marijuana for medical reasons. It has already been passed in a few states and I expect the trend to continue. Someday the Federal Goverment will wake up and realize all the tax revenue that is available to it once it controls the distribution much like alcohol … and sets limits on its use to protect those who use it and society in general. But in the meantime, people do use marijuana for its medicinal, therapeutic properties … without breaking the law … civil law … or God’s moral law.

 

[ArchAngel15]

I want understand the connection between canibus (possibly) being used in the anointed oil and you justifying smoking it?

Also, I tend to question the bio-availability of canibus when suspended in an oil and applied to skin??

 

[jkiernan56]

I find the argument of using illegal drug in moderation rather weak. Would you condone the use of any drug in moderation? How about Crack/cocaine or Meth in moderation? Or perhaps something that may be less addictive like extasy in moderation?

You say that it brings you closer to God. Would it not be an amazing occurrence if you didn’t need to use drugs to achieve this? Maybe you can pray to God to help get closer to him with your own power and will, and just engage in the smoking of MJ for the other therapeutic benefits you receive…

I wonder if you are asking this question of MJ being sinful because perhaps deep down you may really think that it is?

Just curious do you engage in the smoking of any other plants that God created? I once smoked a cinnamon stick when I didn’t have any pot LoL… It was weird, but that was a long time ago.

Excellent points !!! I really do mean that in all sincerety. And I would like to answer each one very honestly … without any guise … or attempt at self justification …

1. Would I condone the use of ANY drug in moderation? How about crack/cocaine or meth … or extasy.

My answer to that one would be an emphatic - NO. First of all, you should know that I have never done those other drugs, nor would I ever want to. I also admit that I am very ignorant of them and so I cannot speak from experience or any comprehensive knowledge about these other drugs.

As Ecclesiastes 3 says "There is a time for everything -

There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven:

a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot

a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build

a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance

a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain

a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away

a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak

a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

What does the worker gain from his toil? I have seen the burden God has laid on men. He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end. I know that there is nothing better for men than to be happy and do good while they live. That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil—this is the gift of God. I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.

biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=25&chapter=3&version=31

Now just as there is a time for everything, inherent within that is the idea that there is a Purpose for everything God has created … so while all things are good that God created, how, when, and why it is used definitely must be a consideration … for the person who honestly and truly wants to love God and live according to His will …

So, I would like to first of all say that all the drugs God has made are good, and there proper use/application should be determined with the use of reason … and in concert/agreement with scripture, and the teachings of the Magisterium.

So while all natural drugs (that God has made) are good, what kind of drugs they are … and the implications of their use … cannot be all put into the same basket. All drugs are not the same. All drugs do not have the same effects. And I could go on and on … but i hope you understand the point I am trying to make.

The bottom line is that my answer is emphatically NO to the question as to whether the moderate use of all drugs is licit … oil is a product of nature … but i certainly wouldn’t want to drink it to find out its effects …

 

[ArchAngel15]

I guess my point is what seperates MJ from these other illegal drugs like say cocaine?

They are both from nature.

I know all drugs have different effects on us, but what if I was using cocaine and it gave me the same benefits that you receive from MJ, would you support me using it? Would it be a sin in your view?

 

[jkiernan56]

You say that it brings you closer to God. Would it not be an amazing occurrence if you didn’t need to use drugs to achieve this? Maybe you can pray to God to help get closer to him with your own power and will, and just engage in the smoking of MJ for the other therapeutic benefits you receive…

I wonder if you are asking this question of MJ being sinful because perhaps deep down you may really think that it is?

Again, an excellent point you present. You have made an assumption that you have no right to make. You said wouldn’t it be amazing if I didn’t need to use marijuana to get closer to God. Now first of all, who said that the only time I get closer to God is when I have used marijuana? In fact, I have never once mentioned how much or even if and when I have even used it. You are making a huge assumption. Second, who are you to tell me that I have never gotten close to God without the use of marijuana? You again make a huge assumption and try to reach where you have no right to go. That is called being judgemental. Making judgements without having all the facts. Just for your information, I do get close to God WITHOUT the use of any drug … especially Jesus in the Eucharist … and I love to go to Mary in prayer as well. I also LOVE St. Elizabeth Ann Seton … but that is for another day

You mention that the reason I started this thread was because deep down inside I may really think the use of marijuana is sinful. Actually quite the opposite. Just as Christ responded to the legalists of His day that it is NOT what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but rather what comes out of him that makes him unclean … the use of marijuana in and of itself does not pose any twinge of guilt … what may be sinful … is if that is something I have done … how do I treat my wife … in thought, word, or action? Or how do I treat others? And the list can go on and on … sinfulness is a condition of the heart, not what a person eats or drinks or smokes … as St. Paul says "The kingdom of God is not about food or drink or what a person wears, but rather joy and righteousness that comes to us from the Holy Spirit within. Peace

 

[ArchAngel15]

The use of marijuana has done the exact opposite of what you describe for me. In fact, it moves me to deeper prayer, love of the scriptures, the sacraments, reading of the lives of the saints, teachings of the Church, love of theology and especially the Trinity … also more heartfelt confession and sorrowfulness for sin, prayer an intercession for others … and the list goes on… lets just say that it does not drive me away from God … it drives me more towards God, towards a desire for Holiness, Goodness, Kindness, Patience …

I appoligize if you took that as being judgemental, my only intention was to imply if you could achieve the above with out using MJ.

By the way, you should know that I have had a very powerful, profound experience of God’s Grace in my life … and it was NOT an experience from the use of any drug … nor was I even using it at the time … Grace is no longer a concept, but a very deep personal experience … At the time, my spiritual director was a Carmelite Priest.

I saw that you have developed a closeness to God without drugs. I was not trying to make an assumption that needed drugs for that, again I appologize for my lazziness in my writing…

 

[jkiernan56]

I appoligize if you took that as being judgemental, my only intention was to imply if you could achieve the above with out using MJ.

I saw that you have developed a closeness to God without drugs. I was not trying to make an assumption that needed drugs for that, again I appologize for my lazziness in my writing…

I apologize for getting a little defensive … I made the incorrect assumption that you were assuming things about me that were untrue … and so I am also in the wrong …

I do achieve closeness to God without the use of any drugs. I would have to say that I probably love the Mass more than anything else … the Liturgy, the prayers of the Saints in the Liturgy … the Lord feeding us through His Word and Himself as Bread and Wine in the Eucharist … the gathering of my brothers and sisters in Christ … as family around the Lord’s table … knowing that each person is a gift from God to me … and I a gift of God to others …

 

[ArchAngel15]

Those are all great things you speak of!!

 

[LilyM]

I apologize for getting a little defensive … I made the incorrect assumption that you were assuming things about me that were untrue … and so I am also in the wrong …

I do achieve closeness to God without the use of any drugs. I would have to say that I probably love the Mass more than anything else … the Liturgy, the prayers of the Saints in the Liturgy … the Lord feeding us through His Word and Himself as Bread and Wine in the Eucharist … the gathering of my brothers and sisters in Christ … as family around the Lord’s table … knowing that each person is a gift from God to me … and I a gift of God to others …

It seems to me, then, that your feeling closeness to God has nothing at all to do with MJ and that your argument that IT brings you closer to God is baseless. Have you considered that MJ in fact could be HINDERING the process - that you could achieve deeper levels of closeness if you stopped using it? Go without for a while and see what happens.

And as I said before, on what evidence, on what grounds, do you conclude that God ordained cannabis for the purpose of humans smoking and getting stoned, or indeed for human consumption at all? There ARE plenty of plants out there that weren’t created for us to use in any way, let alone to ingest as drugs, you know!

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

The practices of the saints generally show a pattern toward depriving themselves of material substances in order to attain closeness to God. I think we should follow in their example.

 

[jkiernan56]

The practices of the saints generally show a pattern toward depriving themselves of material substances in order to attain closeness to God. I think we should follow in their example.

If that is what God has shown you and put on your heart, you should definitely go for it … I personally don’t think God makes cookie cutter saints … He wants each of us to be ourselves … and through His grace become Holy (more and more in Love with God) … and in that relationship of Love with God … show to others God’s Love in our own unique way that only each of us can … God definitely calls some to a life of Ascetism … like St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney … if that is how God is calling you to holiness, then by all means go for it … regardless of which way you or I go … you and I will encounter the cross … our own personal dying and rising with Christ … in whatever manner or form that might take place … and I pray the Lord’s love with always uplift and strengthen you through those times … in the meantime, you should know that I am an Irishman … and I can’t see myself living the kind of life that St. Vianney did … it isn’t me … nor is it what I think God has called me to …

 

[zzz]

Thank you for that information. I really do appreciate your responses. Scripture says that “correct a fool, and he will rebuke you for it; correct a wise man, and he will love you for it.” I really do appreciate your good intentions … so far I have not been convinced or convicted by the ideas your presented. In fact, if anything, it has helped me possibly even more to be at ease in conscience … I especially loved the part:

"But on one thing we can be specific. If we find that any game or diversion is the cause or occasion of sin for us, we should drop it. If, after any amusement, we feel less like looking into the face of God, or our own mother, we should keep way from it thereafter. The principal purpose of amusement is give rest and recreation to fit us for the burdens of life. If we find that a certain recreation interferes with our duties, our responsibilites, our self-respect, we should let it alone."

The use of marijuana has done the exact opposite of what you describe for me. In fact, it moves me to deeper prayer, love of the scriptures, the sacraments, reading of the lives of the saints, teachings of the Church, love of theology and especially the Trinity … also more heartfelt confession and sorrowfulness for sin, prayer an intercession for others … and the list goes on… lets just say that it does not drive me away from God … it drives me more towards God, towards a desire for Holiness, Goodness, Kindness, Patience …

I agree with you that if the fruits produced something quite different, especially movement of our heart, mind, will away from God … it is NOT from the Lord. But if you do see fruits of the Holy Spirit … it does make one pause.

Please ask some of your religious brothers and/or sisters if they can look into the composition of the Holy Annointing Oil used in the Old Testament … I would greatly appreciate it.

I would like to discuss with you the wedding of Cana … the humanity of Christ … whether the moderate and responsible use of alcohol is something Christ condones … and why that might not also be true of kanah-bosem (cannabis).

By the way, you should know that I have had a very powerful, profound experience of God’s Grace in my life … and it was NOT an experience from the use of any drug … nor was I even using it at the time … Grace is no longer a concept, but a very deep personal experience … At the time, my spiritual director was a Carmelite Priest.

Cheers? Bottoms Up??? LOL

I’m in complete agreement with you…excellent post!!

 

[jkiernan56]

I guess my point is what seperates MJ from these other illegal drugs like say cocaine?

They are both from nature.

I know all drugs have different effects on us, but what if I was using cocaine and it gave me the same benefits that you receive from MJ, would you support me using it? Would it be a sin in your view?

That is an excellent question. I’ll have to think about it and get back to you

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

If that is what God has shown you and put on your heart, you should definitely go for it … I personally don’t think God makes cookie cutter saints … He wants each of us to be ourselves … and through His grace become Holy (more and more in Love with God) … and in that relationship of Love with God … show to others God’s Love in our own unique way that only each of us can … God definitely calls some to a life of Ascetism … like St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney … if that is how God is calling you to holiness, then by all means go for it … regardless of which way you or I go … you and I will encounter the cross … our own personal dying and rising with Christ … in whatever manner or form that might take place … and I pray the Lord’s love with always uplift and strengthen you through those times … in the meantime, you should know that I am an Irishman … and I can’t see myself living the kind of life that St. Vianney did … it isn’t me … nor is it what I think God has called me to …

Can you indicate a saint who according to the tradition of the Church was spoken to by the Lord through the use of drugs?

 

[Benedict108]

Can you indicate a saint who according to the tradition of the Church was spoken to by the Lord through the use of drugs?

Valid Point.

---

My summary of posts:

Okay…I have shown that marijuana is indeed a prohibited drug. Its legality is determined via civil authorities. Further, I have shown that Church does not hold a favourable view of drugs in my previous postings; all one has to do is look Pope John Paul II’s opinion. I have also provided on my earlier posting an examination of conscience from the USCCB that clearly stated “Did I get drunk or use prohibited drugs?” (Violation of 5th Commandment)

Tying everything together, unless you are using marijuana prescribed by a doctor for therapeutic purposes you are in violation of civil law, as the drug is prohibited otherwise. The catechism has clearly stated that we as citizens must follow the law unless it is opposed to God. It also covered the use of drugs. Hence, if the marijuana was not prescribed it is prohibited; thus, it is a sin.

That was the question of the thread, yes?