Is It A Sin To Attend An Independent Catholic Chapel?

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Warloff said:
I have, but, and I feel heretical for saying this, I have usually gotten bored. I know it’s Christ up there and I shouldn’t feel that way, but Eucharistic Adoration doesn’t come easy to me. One of the nice things about the TLM is that it makes it so much easier for me to approach the mystery of transubstantiation.

However, I did once attend a Eucharistic Adoration setup by Opus Dei and that was pretty powerful, but Opus Dei has no nearby chapters here.
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Do you speak Latin, so as to understand the mass?

Another suggestion: Attend a “Life in the Spirit” seminar. Once you have released the gifts of the Holy Spirit, your faith life will forever be deepened. I am speaking for myself, but many, many others have witnessed the same result.
 
Warloff said:
I have, but, and I feel heretical for saying this, I have usually gotten bored. I know it’s Christ up there and I shouldn’t feel that way, but Eucharistic Adoration doesn’t come easy to me. One of the nice things about the TLM is that it makes it so much easier for me to approach the mystery of transubstantiation.

However, I did once attend a Eucharistic Adoration setup by Opus Dei and that was pretty powerful, but Opus Dei has no nearby chapters here.
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It sounds to me that you are aware of the facts, but it’s your emotions (feelings) that you are having a hard time dealing with.

This post of yours concerns me. Certainly the silence of Adoration of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is unfamiliar to many of us who live in modern U.S.A.and lead busy lives, and we can become sleepy because we are used to a din of noise and constant stimulation. But to be bored in the very Presence of our Beautiful Savior?–this makes me concerned that you don’t know Him very well, but instead, you are attending Mass as an “experience” similiar to attending a show or theater. This is a dangerous way to live, and could lead to your eventually abandoning your faith because you are living your Christianity by feelings instead of by faith.

I would like to make the suggestion that perhaps the Lord has allowed the TLM to be discontinued in your parish for the express purpose of forcing you to strengthen your faith and learn to live by faith rather than by feelings.

The Lord is trying to help you, if you are willing to receive His help and learn His discipline of faith.

I would advise you to use this difficult time to train yourself, with the Holy Spirit’s help, to attend Mass by faith rather than by feelings. Learn to experience the True Presence of Christ in ANY situation. You may have to seek the help of an older and more experienced Catholic Christian who has already learned the hard lesson of how to experience God’s Presence under any circumstances.

Think of the value of this discipline in your life. There will perhaps come a time when you are no longer able to worship God at the Mass of your choice (it’s already happened to you). When you are sick or elderly/infirm, and are unable to attend the Mass of your choice, you will still have peace and joy in your heart if you are able to worship Him in any Mass, or for that matter, even if you are not able to attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

My husband grew up in the Assemblies of God (Protestant) churches, which provide an extremely emotional and theatrical worship service. Many people are very enthusiastic about committing their life to Christ when they first start attending this denomination’s services, but after the luster wears off, they just don’t “feel fed” anymore and they leave. Many of these Christians become “church hoppers”," always searching for that next “mountaintop experience.”

They never learn that it is FAITH, not feeling, that helps a Christian to grow close to Christ. You must learn to know Him, not just feel Him.

It is the LORD that we receive at Mass, and He is Jesus, Truly Present, at Mass, no matter how we feel.

I think it’s very appropriate to go to Masses that you enjoy and feel good about when they are available. But I think it’s better to be able to worship the Lord and receive Him in Eucharist in ANY Mass, even if the Mass is not done in a way that appeals to your feelings.
 
Warloff said:
[Finally, I turned to the last option: an independent chapel in town. This is an irregular chapel that uses the 1954 missal, but does pray for the Pope and our bishop in the canon. During the weekday there are no sermons. I do not receive communion.
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What I would do is to find out who his bishop is and whether he’s in communion with the Church. Being in an independent chapel means that he operates in a building outside of that of the local diocese. There probably are some old contract issues involved as well. His masses, if valid, would count for the Sunday obligation, but I doubt if the local ordinary has granted him faculties to hear confessions and assist at weddings. In many respects he is like an SSPX priest, though he might not be suspended per se. Advertising the 1954 Missal, however, bothers me, as that indicates he’s not following the letter of the SP or UE.
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-The priest does not have faculties.

-I have a limited understanding of Latin, but always have my handy-dandy missal at Mass. But, I am curious as to whether you ever been to a Traditional Latin Mass. Much of what the priest says is inaudible so knowledge of Latin is irrelevant for those parts.

-The priest in question does not have faculties.

-I will take your advice regarding Eucharistic adoration.
 
ProVobis said:
This is not a Latin vs English issue. It is my understanding that some Old Catholics celebrate in English.
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As to language, I was trying to determine the reason for this attraction to the TLM, as well as the subsequent spiritual deflation in the lack of it. If he was a Latin speaker or devotee, that would help in explaining it. I saw no reference to the “Old Catholic” Church (unless they are known for using the 1954 missal), but the OP did specifically mention the Latin mass.
 
Cat said:
It sounds to me that you are aware of the facts, but it’s your emotions (feelings) that you are having a hard time dealing with.

This post of yours concerns me. Certainly the silence of Adoration of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament is unfamiliar to many of us who live in modern U.S.A.and lead busy lives, and we can become sleepy because we are used to a din of noise and constant stimulation. But to be bored in the very Presence of our Beautiful Savior?–this makes me concerned that you don’t know Him very well, but instead, you are attending Mass as an “experience” similiar to attending a show or theater. This is a dangerous way to live, and could lead to your eventually abandoning your faith because you are living your Christianity by feelings instead of by faith.

I would like to make the suggestion that perhaps the Lord has allowed the TLM to be discontinued in your parish for the express purpose of forcing you to strengthen your faith and learn to live by faith rather than by feelings.

The Lord is trying to help you, if you are willing to receive His help and learn His discipline of faith.

I would advise you to use this difficult time to train yourself, with the Holy Spirit’s help, to attend Mass by faith rather than by feelings. Learn to experience the True Presence of Christ in ANY situation. You may have to seek the help of an older and more experienced Catholic Christian who has already learned the hard lesson of how to experience God’s Presence under any circumstances.

Think of the value of this discipline in your life. There will perhaps come a time when you are no longer able to worship God at the Mass of your choice (it’s already happened to you). When you are sick or elderly/infirm, and are unable to attend the Mass of your choice, you will still have peace and joy in your heart if you are able to worship Him in any Mass, or for that matter, even if you are not able to attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

My husband grew up in the Assemblies of God (Protestant) churches, which provide an extremely emotional and theatrical worship service. Many people are very enthusiastic about committing their life to Christ when they first start attending this denomination’s services, but after the luster wears off, they just don’t “feel fed” anymore and they leave. Many of these Christians become “church hoppers”," always searching for that next “mountaintop experience.”

They never learn that it is FAITH, not feeling, that helps a Christian to grow close to Christ. You must learn to know Him, not just feel Him.

It is the LORD that we receive at Mass, and He is Jesus, Truly Present, at Mass, no matter how we feel.

I think it’s very appropriate to go to Masses that you enjoy and feel good about when they are available. But I think it’s better to be able to worship the Lord and receive Him in Eucharist in ANY Mass, even if the Mass is not done in a way that appeals to your feelings.
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Very well and charitably said. My concern is that OP has fallen in love with the form of the mass more than the substance of the mass.

I use as an example the crude masses offered by imprisoned Chinese Bishops and Priests - celebrated surreptitiously in filthy prisons, using who knows what form of bread. Yet, they remain filled with joy and the love of our Lord Jesus, Who is present even (perhaps especially) in such sorrowful circumstances.
 
po18guy said:
As to language, I was trying to determine the source of this attraction to the TLM. If he was a Latin speaker or devotee, that would help in explaining it. I saw no mention of the “Old Catholic” Church, but the OP did specifically mentioned the Latin mass.
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A big part of the appeal was the first time I attended the TLM I realized that transubstantiation was really occurring and I was not in a state of grace and could not receive. It had been ten years since my last confession, but the TLM made me start going to confession regularly for really the first time in my life.

I was also very confused about what was going on at the TLM the first time and so I started studying the mass and really understanding what the mass was about. This also benefited my understanding of the OF because even though I had attended the OF my whole life and was a product of a Catholic High School I really had never stopped to really think about what was going on at mass. So for example I had always thought the propers said during the OF were just ad-libs the priest was doing!

And as I started reading more about the Traditional Latin Mass I started reading about other traditional practices that I had been aware about, but had never really engaged in. So I started saying the rosary, doing the stations of the cross during Lent, decided to read the Bible cover to cover, and began abstaining meat from Fridays.

I guess I should add before I started attending the TLM I had very much fallen away from the faith and was not living as should be. Thus, I am very attached to the TLM as it has played a very important part in restoring my faith.
 
Warloff said:
-The priest does not have faculties.

-I have a limited understanding of Latin, but always have my handy-dandy missal at Mass. But, I am curious as to whether you ever been to a Traditional Latin Mass. Much of what the priest says is inaudible so knowledge of Latin is irrelevant for those parts.

-The priest in question does not have faculties.

-I will take your advice regarding Eucharistic adoration.
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The only reason to be Christian (or to attend any mass - no matter the form), is because you love Jesus Christ. Our Lord is Light, and His presence shines more brightly than any other on earth. We are called to love Him unreservedly, in all times, places and situations. Since love is a conscious decision, let each of us decide to love our Lord, Who is the source of our life and our salvation.
 
po18guy said:
Very well and charitably said. My concern is that OP has fallen in love with the form of the mass more than the substance of the mass.
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My guess is that you wouldn’t have a problem if this independent priest said the English Mass. Is this correct?
 
=Warloff;8263251]Note: Please read this entire post before responding.
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I am a Roman Catholic very attached to tradition, but also one that accepts Vatican II, Novus Ordo, and who loves Pope John Paul II. I had been attending the TLM daily until recently when my parish stopped offering it.
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This was very devastating as daily attendance toward the mass is central to my spirituality. I have a hard time praying, but find it very easy to do so at the TLM. I rarely feel God’s presence in my life, but am overwhelmed by His presence at the TLM.
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I have tried to deal with my TLM withdrawal with a few different ways. I first tried attending the neighboring town’s TLM, but the distance proved impractical. Fortunately, I am able to make it to this chapel on Sundays. I then tried attending the Ordinary Form daily. I recognize that the OF is holy, sacred, and valid, but it simply does not have the same impact for me as the TLM does. I find it hard to pray at the OF and find it hard to feel God’s presence there. As this is what makes me go to Mass, I found myself not attending daily mass at all.
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Finally, I turned to the last option: an independent chapel in town. This is an irregular chapel that uses the 1954 missal, but does pray for the Pope and our bishop in the canon. During the weekday there are no sermons. I do not receive communion.
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I have spoken to several priests about this, but none have been able to tell me whether it’s a sin to attend during the weekday. All of them said they wouldn’t recommend attending, and all insisted I could not meet my Sunday obligation at this chapel. But, as to whether it was a sin to attend during the weekday they all said they didn’t know enough about the chapel to comment.
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**Again, I am only attending this chapel during the weekday and not making my Sunday obligation there. I am not receiving communion there. And the chapel is not sedevacantist. **
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Allow me friend to frankly share where I think your tight and where I Know that your in error.

First: Your desire to be close to the Lord is HIGHLY Commendable:thumbsup: … As you are not receiving Holy Communion at the daily “mass”? , I doubt that your sinning UNLESS others there KNOW you to be an “Informed and fully practicing Roman Catholic.”, in which case you are giving scandal, and ought to stop at once this chapel “mass.”

QUESTION for clairification: HOW can there Be a MASS without VALID Catholic Priest?

Now for the issues you need to address ASAP:
  1. Avoid in your present state ALL who DENY the second Vatican Council. It is a VALID Church Council of our Roman Catholic Church… THEY are is SCHISM! That friend is a FACT.
  2. Please advise what specific parts [passages of] the Vatican II documents you think permit you do particiapte? PLEASE provide the document name and the teaching number.
  3. I can CERTAINLY understand your comments of the effects of the Extrodinary Form when compared to the difference in personal pirty of the Novus Ordo
  4. However this does not give you rights that you seem to think your entitles too.
  5. God offers humanity two choices; ONLY TWO… 1. Your in charge 2. God’s in charge and the responsibility cannot be split.
  6. Everything happens for a REASON. We term it “Divine providence.”
  7. Every Saint, and every wanna-be saint, has experienced “dry periods of Faith.” As a FYI, so long as we are in th State of Grace, these are times of GREATER Grace opportunities, then when we are REALLY “feeling Christ Presene” in our lives…
  8. I have been blessed to be able to attend exactly ONE Latin Mass since the installation of the Novus Ordo. The closest one to me now is nearly 100 miles - one way. In Ohio, there were none that I was aware of…[There is now in Downtown Dayton]. So Thank God for what he has lovingly permitted you to particiapte in; BUT accept what “is” as God’s desire for you at this time.
  9. Satan is devious and “ever-present.” PRIDE is the key to a GREAT many errors. Be carefull.
  10. Allow God to lead to to, where, and HOW God wnats to lead you.
Take Up your Cross and Follow Me
Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross Luke.9 :23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”

**1Pet.4: 13 **” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

1Pet.5: 1, 9 “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

**2Tim.4: 5 **“As for you, always be steady, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

**2Thes.1: 5 **“This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering “

God Bless you,
Pat
 
PJM said:
Allow me friend to frankly share where I think your tight and
  1. Avoid in your present state ALL who DENY the second Vatican Council. It is a VALID Church Council of our Roman Catholic Church… THEY are is SCHISM! That friend is a FACT.
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I don’t have time to respond to everything you wrote, but just wanted to say my mother denies Vatican II because she is an atheist. It’s a bit of bummer that I won’t be able to talk to her. Same goes for my Protetsant friends 😦

As for the chapel, they accept Vatican II.
 
ProVobis said:
My guess is that you wouldn’t have a problem if this independent priest said the English Mass. Is this correct?
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This is not a Latin vs. Vernacular situation. I detest the spirit that seeks to further divide the Body of Christ by such contention. Language has nothing to do with my opinion. Obedience does. To associate with the willfully disobedient only to experience a certain form of mass is what is concerning here. Which spirit is leading the OP towards dissident or schismatic groups? It is not the Holy Spirit, I assure you.
 
I think it would be at least a venial sin. You don’t know what strange ideas or heresy you might pick up there, in the homily, or whatever. They are not Catholic, why go?

I know this is not going to be a welcome suggestion, but couldn’t you at least try going to a N.O. Mass for your weekdays? Not what you love, but you would be in a Catholic church! Might be worth trying. Might open you to something good.

After all, it is also a sin to become inordinately attached to all this EF stuff we like, candles, chasubles, Latin…if you MUST have those to the point you reject the pope’s church for an independent church, then yes it could border on sin.
 
po18guy said:
This is not a Latin vs. Vernacular situation.
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Then why use it (or “the attraction of the TLM”) in your arguments on a thread asking about the morality of attending an independent chapel for any event, even outside of one’s Sunday obligation? It appeared to me that you and the other poster were trying to take the opportunity to further slam Latin and/or the TLM.
 
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