Is it a sin to attend/celebrate the Passover Seder?

[the_phoenix]

One year I attended a Passover meal at the household of a Jewish friend. Before going, I asked permission from a priest that I had gone to Confession to and trusted. He told me that it would be all right for me to go.

Actually, it was a bit of a letdown once I actually got there. The hostess informed me that the bread was leavened rather than unleavened like you were supposed to have and tried to assure me that “God wouldn’t care” … and then to top it all off, grace was not said before the meal. Not a single word of Jewish history or prayer. It ended up being more of a social or cultural get together. The food was good at any rate.

Now here’s the ironic part.

I then invited my Jewish friend to my house for dinner. We sat down to eat and as I took the first bite, this friend asked me, “Aren’t you forgetting to say grace?”



At least I learned a lesson in humility!

:getholy:

 

[ciero]

A Catholic Should not attend a Passover Seder and certainly not celebrate one.

Attendance at non-catholic ceremonies was permissable only to pay respects to a dead friend/relative at a Funeral, or a non-catholic wedding. Even when this is the case, participation is not an option.

Outside of the above reasons; attendance to please a friend/relative, to encourage good relations, for curiosity etc would indeed be a sin an pose a danger to your faith, not to mention scandal which could be caused by Catholics/non-Catholics seeing a Catholic in attendance.

Whether some would challenge this teaching is superflous, given that the Church undeniably held this teaching for almost 2,000 years of its existance. The evidence is everywhere from Moral theology manuals to Papal Encyclicals etc.

RUBBISH! Pope JPII attended and participated in Jewish Sedars while living in Poland, this is just RUBBISH!

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

My husband is telling me that Pre-Vatican II that it was a sin to attend any non-Catholic (“pagan”) ceremonies, etc. Is there Catholic teaching that supports this prior to Vatican II? Also, what about current teaching…did it really change?

I can certainly see his point that we are taking part in a ceremony that denies Christ. Yet, I am torn on this.

A seder does deny Christ because it looks forward to the coming Messiah, which is therefore someone other than Jesus Christ the true Messiah. This confusion also continues into the so-called “Christian seder”. It is effectively blasphemy, even if that is not your intention. We don’t need a “Christian seder”, we have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

Here is a sermon that goes into more details:
Sermon - Seder Meals Violate the 1st Commandment

Summa:

Consequently, just as it would be a mortal sin now for anyone, in making a profession of faith, to say that Christ is yet to be born, which the fathers of old said devoutly and truthfully; so too it would be a mortal sin now to observe those ceremonies which the fathers of old fulfilled with devotion and fidelity.

This would apply to truly Jewish seders.

 

[SouthpawLink]

RUBBISH! Pope JPII attended and participated in Jewish Sedars while living in Poland, this is just RUBBISH!

He also kissed the Qur’an and prayed for St. John the Baptist to protect Islam.

truereligiondebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/popejpkissingkoran.jpg?w=400&h=266

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/travels/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_20000321_wadi-al-kharrar_en.html

Just because the Roman Pontiff does something does not mean everybody else can/should do it as well (i.e. he’s not impeccable).

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Your husband is simply wrong.

Not according to St. Thomas (see above post)

It was no sin to attend a non-Catholic wedding, funeral, etc.

It would have been considered to be a sin to have directly participated in such a religious ceremony.

Let’s re-read that.

The 1917 Code of Canon Law states:
1917 CIC 1258.1:

Haud licitum est fidelibus quovis modo active assistere seu partem habere in sacris acatholicorum.

It is by no means licit for the faithful to actively assist in any manner whatsoever or to have a part in the sacred services of non-Catholics.

The exception is this:
1917 CIC 1258.2:

Tolerari potest praesentia passiva seu mere materialis, civilis officii vel honoris causa, ob gravem rationem ab Episcopo in casu dubii probandam, in acatholicorum funeribus, nuptiis similibusque sollemniis, dummodo perversionis et scandali periculum absit.

The passive or merely material presence of Catholics at the funerals and weddings of non-Catholics can be permitted on account of civil duty or honor, because of a grave reason which, in case of doubt, must be approved by the bishop provided that the danger of perversion or scandal be absent.

So, for instance, if you are in the army and living under a Protestant king and he dies and you are ordered to go to the funeral, you can because you are simply attending (passive or material presence) and you have a grave reason (you are ordered to attend) which is on account of a civil duty or honor (he’s the king) and the danger of perversion or scandal is absent (half the country will be there).

There is absolutely NO sin in attending a Seder.

Yes there is, it is the sin of blasphemy – a violation of the First Commandment.

In Fact, many Catholic Churches celebrate Seders of their own.

And we all know that everything that occurs in Catholic churches is licit and not sinful…

 

[Gregory_I]

Amen Pilgrim.

DO not Go outside the Church. Protect yourself, stay safe: SHun false ecumenism. Your PResence simply confirms them in their error, and at best breeds indifference in yourself.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

RUBBISH! Pope JPII attended and participated in Jewish Sedars while living in Poland, this is just RUBBISH!

1. Source? A quick search found no relevant hits. There are plenty of trads who criticize Pope John Paul II so you would think this would be discussed somewhere.
2. Even if he did, so what? Do you think that everything the pope does must be licit and not sinful? Sorry, but the pope has to go to Confession like everybody else, he isn’t perfect.

 

[Crusading_Canuk]

Since the Days of St. Paul, Catholics have been forbidden and discouraged to attend and participate in Jewish festivals. Correct me if I am wrong but in the Epistles, does St. Paul not talk of a “Judaising” sect of early Christians? If I remember correctly he did not have a very high opinion of them. My advice, is to avoid the religious ceremonies of non-Catholics (except the Orthodox as there can be many good reasons for attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy under the correct circumstances) and concern yourself with the Traditions of Catholicism.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

Before Vatican II the Church disallowed participation in any non Catholic services or gatherings. Laity was considered children. Vatican II declared the laity adults

Which document was that?

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

So many who simply do not understand what a Seder is. It is NOT a Jewish religious service, in the sense that it is their form of worship. It never has been that.

It did NOT stand for anything prior to Calvary, other than what it was, and what it remains. It is a CELEBRATION of the fact that God led the Jews out of Egypt, through the mechanism of the “Passover”, which refers to the fact that the “Angel of death passed over the homes of the Jews, who had identified their homes with the blood of a lamb painted on the doorposts and lintel.”

It is a celebration of the compassion and love of God, and of his eternal covenant with the Jews, his “Chosen People”.

Our Church teaches that the Jews are STILL his chose people.

And the Jews being the Chosen People has what to do with participating in a False Religion? Can I celebrate Hindu festivals as well? As long as it’s not in a temple, then it’s okay right?

I, as a child, both before and after my baptism into the Catholic Church, attended many church services conducted by my grandfather, who was a Free Methodist Minister for 55 years. I did this with the full knowledge and approval of my parish priest, and with the dispensation of the Archbishop of San Francisco. This was PRE-VATICAN II folks.

The bolded part is relevant.

Instead of spreading “superstition” to others, how about some reality. It was NEVER considered a sin to participate in a Seder, which under Jewish rules ALWAYS takes place in a home, and never in the Temple.

The location of the religious rite does not matter. It’s the rite itself which is problematic. At the very least, it is Judaizing.

I had good nuns, brothers and even a few priests tell me a lot of superstitious nonsense about what was, and what was not a sin. Things like, “Having a wet dream was a sin”. Or, “Even thinking about sex for an instant was a mortal sin”.

Ah… leftover Catholic school angst.

As for “wet dreams”, see Summa, II-II, Q. 54, a. 5

Thinking about sex for an instant is a mortal sin if it is volitional. Simply having images in your imagination is not sinful because even devils can put images there. But what matters is how you respond to these promptings – do you fight them or do you give in to them?

This is irrelevant, but it is just to say that these matters have been settled a long time ago. The thinking that “from AD 33 to 1965 the Church was in darkness and ignorance and now we have entered into the Second Pentecost when we are now ‘adults’ and can ignore the past 1900 years” is just plain silly.

Jacob Marley, you need to stop dragging your chains around. Just let it go.

Ironically, “superstition” is just what we are talking about here. Superstition is either offering worship to a false god or offering false worship to the true God. Celebrating either a Jewish seder or a “Christian seder” is offering false worship to the true God and therefore it is superstition – a sin against the First Commandment.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

This is what the USCCB’s document ***“God’s Mercy Endures Forever: Guidelines on the Presentation of Jews and Judaism in Catholic Preaching” ***says about Seders:
I think that shows that you attending a Seder that your family celebrates is in no way a sin.

And the USCCB is an infallible teaching body? Oh wait, it has no canonical standing whatsoever and has no authority apart from the bishops who comprise it.

 

[baylee]

So, Pilgrim, to clarify your position based on 1917 Canon Law: it is sinful for me to attend my family’s seder, but it’s not sinful for me to go to my Jewish mother’s funeral?

Oh, and does current Canon Law still state what you have quoted?

 

[Crusading_Canuk]

St. John Chrysotom’s extreme position on Judaism, was not based on hatred or anti semitism but to stop Catholic Faithful from partaking in Jewish rituals. The first time I heard of St. John’s position on the Jews, I thought “well ok… thats a little extreme…”. I then however read into why he had and promoted those opinions; during the time of his life, Christians in the East were being drawn to participating and attending Jewish rituals (like in this case here) for a variety of reasons. As this has been forbidden from the days of the early Church, St John needed to discourage it, and that is why he developed his opinions. Jharek, you are correct that we need to take care when using St. John Chrysotom as a source, we need to be careful not only to look at his opinions, but why he developed them in the first place.

 

[Marie5890]

So many who simply do not understand what a Seder is. It is NOT a Jewish religious service, in the sense that it is their form of worship. It never has been that.

It did NOT stand for anything prior to Calvary, other than what it was, and what it remains. It is a CELEBRATION of the fact that God led the Jews out of Egypt, through the mechanism of the “Passover”, which refers to the fact that the “Angel of death passed over the homes of the Jews, who had identified their homes with the blood of a lamb painted on the doorposts and lintel.”

It is a celebration of the compassion and love of God, and of his eternal covenant with the Jews, his “Chosen People”.

Our Church teaches that the Jews are STILL his chose people.

Some of you REALLY need to learn about what other religions actually do, and about our own theology.

I, as a child, both before and after my baptism into the Catholic Church, attended many church services conducted by my grandfather, who was a Free Methodist Minister for 55 years. I did this with the full knowledge and approval of my parish priest, and with the dispensation of the Archbishop of San Francisco. This was PRE-VATICAN II folks.

The ONLY thing I could not do was to state their expression of faith, and partake of their communion. But, I was free to attend the services, and I spoke at his funeral, which was conducted by two ministers of that church. I also spoke at his graveside service, and led the “Our Father” there.

Instead of spreading “superstition” to others, how about some reality. It was NEVER considered a sin to participate in a Seder, which under Jewish rules ALWAYS takes place in a home, and never in the Temple.

I had good nuns, brothers and even a few priests tell me a lot of superstitious nonsense about what was, and what was not a sin. Things like, “Having a wet dream was a sin”. Or, “Even thinking about sex for an instant was a mortal sin”.

It was only when I went to Seminary myself that I learned what the official teachings of the church were. And I went PRE-VATIVCAN II, to the Passionist’s. They were hardly a “liberal” organization back then.

Thanks, Old Medic. I appreciate knowing what actually is taught and not people’s tendencies to put forth their own personal preferences as doctrine.

We all have to guard against the tendencies that the Pharisees did of adding to the teachings and distorting them into something that they are not and never have been.

 

[AndyP2010]

Link to part of an interview with then Arch Bishop Raymond Burke Prefect for of the Apostolic Signatura
hebrewcatholic.org/ahcinterviewofab.html

Baylee I would talk to your priest as well as try contacting the AHC. Cardinal Burke is speaking about the Sedar in a Christian context and not a part of a family celebration.

 

[SouthpawLink]

Our Church teaches that the Jews are STILL his chosen people.

That is untrue. God’s chosen people are those who accept Jesus Christ and are baptized. What matters is not whether we are Jew or Greek, but whether we have faith in Christ. The Jews need to come to faith in Christ in order to be saved. Those who are “chosen” are in the kingdom of God on earth, the Church.
Fr. Harrison:

What, then, is supersessionism? The word designates the traditional Christian belief that the covenant between God and the People of Israel, established through the mediation of Moses at Mount Sinai, has been replaced or superseded by the ‘New Covenant’ of Jesus Christ. This implies that the Mosaic covenant, with its ritual and dietary requirements, Sabbath observance, etc., is no longer valid for the Jewish people, since God’s revealed will is for Jews, as well as all Gentiles, to enter into the New Covenant by means of baptism and faith in Jesus as the promised Messiah.

This essay is based on the premise expressed by the Catholic adage lex orandi, lex credendi (the Church’s official prayer expresses her authentic belief). Its purpose is to make clear that while Pope Benedict’s new prayer certainly implies the supersessionist position, much of the subsequent media commentary, both favorable and unfavorable, is quite mistaken in seeing this prayer as a liturgical reversion to that position. For one cannot ‘revert’ or ‘return’ to a position that was never at any stage abandoned. And I hope to show here that the Church’s liturgy since Vatican II has never ceased to affirm supersessionist doctrine.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=9168

 

[ciero]

I go to a Sedar every year…I mainly go for the food…I just love Gefilte Fish and the brisket is to die for!! Just wish they would serve some better wine…I don’t go for that sweet Koser stuff!

I can’t believe there is over 4 pages of arguments as to if its ok to go to a Sedar…amazing!

 

[spunjalebi]

According to this, one can’t attend a Hanukkah celebration either. I was once invited to one, and it was more of a party. I got to see one of the candles lit, they said a prayer I had no idea about (nor was I expected to know), and then we all ate traditional food and then had fun after that.

I thought there was a difference between observance and worship of a holiday, versus celebration.

 

[Davina100]

Our parish has a seder meal every year during Holy Week. I think it is fine that we attend because Jesus atttended a pass over meal. It remembers the night that the Angel of death passed over the jewish people and saved their first born. Our heritage is in the Jewish people, Jesus,Mary and Joseph were all Jewish.

I agree that we shouldn’t participate in anything that indicates that we are still waiting for the messiah. We know the pass over meal that Jesus shared with his disciples was just the beginning.

Doesn’t Scott Hahn talk about the 4th cup.That the pass over meal began in the upper room and completed on Calvary.

Wouldn’t Jesus have done something different other than have a pass over meal if it was going to be considered bad for future believers?

 

[Gregory_I]

THe passover wasn’t Jesus’ goal; he instituted the Mass. THAT is our passover, not some ceremonial holdover from another religion.