Is it a sin to be pro-choice?

[ann0]

I have been a Catholic all my life, and personally, I would never ever get an abortion.

But does that mean that I cannot support those who choose to? I adore the Church and the Lord with all my heart, but I don’t think that I have any place to judge those who would get an abortion, i.e. commit a terrible, mortal sin in the eyes of the God and the Church. I live in Ireland and when the referendum to allow abortion occured I was too young to vote, but I feel as if I had been old enough at the time I would have voted ‘yes’.

And I feel guilty about this! But abortion isn’t like adultery or rape; crimes and sins which are very black and white and definitely wrong. I don’t personally like it. I would never do that to me or my child. But I just don’t understand how other Catholics can disagree with it so much! It really isn’t black and white. What if the mother’s health is at risk? What if the child is brain dead? What if the mother was raped or if the child was inbred? The Church teaches to love one’s neighbour like oneself and to not judge people, but yet, these women, these poor confused women, we get to scream ‘murderer’ and ‘whore’ at? Would Jesus not tell us to talk to and comfort them, and to give them support in whatever decision they finally came to?

Lately American Christians (Protestants, I think) have been organising to come abroad to Ireland and protest outside of Irish abortion clinics and hospitals like they do with Planned Parenthood over there, something I find terrible. Even Irish pro-lifers, Catholics I know, have come together to vandalise clinics and threaten abortion doctors. This doesn’t seem like Christ’s teachings to me at all. Women should be spoken to gently and kindly, and allowed to make whatever decision they like in the end. People’s personal opinions should not dictate what they can and can’t do.

Am I wrong to support them, support pro-choice, whilst being pro-life with myself?

Thank you.

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

The Church teaches to love one’s neighbour like oneself and to not judge people, but yet, these women, these poor confused women, we get to scream ‘murderer’ and ‘whore’ at? Would Jesus not tell us to talk to and comfort them, and to give them support in whatever decision they finally came to?

The fact that some pro-life people can be obnoxious doesn’t make the pro-choice position correct.

And no, I don’t think Jesus would want us to support people in “whatever decision they come to.” Some decisions are wrong. Infanticide is one of them. Now, obviously, that doesn’t mean we can’t sympathize with women who have had abortions. A lot of them were in a terrible position and their mistake is perhaps somewhat excusable in that sense. But the fact remains that abortion is always wrong.

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

Women should be spoken to gently and kindly, and allowed to make whatever decision they like in the end. People’s personal opinions should not dictate what they can and can’t do.

If I told you I was going to drown my infant child in the bathtub or murder a homeless person just for fun, would you “gently and kindly” tell me that you supported whatever decision I might make? Or would you tell me that both of those things would be clearly and gravely wrong, regardless of how I felt about them?

 

[Vico]

…
Am I wrong to support them, support pro-choice, whilst being pro-life with myself?
…

It must in any case be clearly understood that whatever may be laid down by civil law in this matter, man can never obey a law which is in itself immoral, and such is the case of a law which would admit in principle the liceity of abortion. Nor can he take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it. Moreover, he may not collaborate in its application.

Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion, November 18, 1974, nos. 19-22

http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...ion/on-the-prochoice-position-on-abortion.cfm

 

[ann0]

By ‘gently and kindly’ I didn’t mean, ‘I see you want to kill your child, and that’s a-okay with me, it’s your choice!’ I meant more so along the lines of not villianising them, but rather trying to reach out to them and trying to dissect why they want an abortion, whether their argument is the only option and why if they truly believe they can rest with their morals afterwards with respect. I don’t think all women who get abortions are murderers. Most of them are confused and scared and when they were trying to figure out what to do could have benefited with a kind and respectful discussion about what exactly they were about to do rather than be compared straight away to a murderer who would drown their child or kill a homeless man (both crimes, which seem pretty black and white like I earlier desccribed.)

 

[ann0]

Thank you this was actually very helpful.

 

[Saxum]

Yes it is absolutely a sin to be pro-choice. And it’s sick. How anybody can be for the murder of babies is beyond me. It’s downright evil. And I don’t care about any hypothetical scenarios involving rape or incest etc. Abortion is always a sin. Simple as that.

And if you vote for a pro-death politician, you commit a sin. As for the politician, if he’s a Catholic, he should be publicly reprimanded and refused Holy Communion.

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

By ‘gently and kindly’ I didn’t mean, ‘I see you want to kill your child, and that’s a-okay with me, it’s your choice!’ I meant more so along the lines of not villianising them, but rather trying to reach out to them and trying to dissect why they want an abortion, whether their argument is the only option and why if they truly believe they can rest with their morals afterwards with respect . I don’t think all women who get abortions are murderers. Most of them are confused and scared and when they were trying to figure out what to do could have benefited with a kind and respectful discussion about what exactly they were about to do rather than be compared straight away to a murderer who would drown their child or kill a homeless man (both crimes, which seem pretty black and white like I earlier desccribed.)

I agree with 95% of this…obviously screaming profanity at someone is unlikely to change their mind. Much better to try to have a civil discussion, and we can certainly sympathize with women who are terrified and confused. No argument there at all.

But that doesn’t mean abortion is okay. It just means that the tactics some pro-lifers use are likely to be counterproductive.

 

[1ke]

But does that mean that I cannot support those who choose to?

Yes that is what it means. Being “pro choice” is really being “pro abortion” and abortion is murder. It is grave matter against the fifth commandment.

That doesn’t mean you cannot be supportive of someone who had an abortion— the Church many ministries for those who suffer from abortions. What is the “choice”? You are choosing to kill a baby. No that is never a moral choice.

When friends have made this choice, we can give comfort to them. We cannot “support” their decision or participate in it or encourage it.

I don’t think that I have any place to judge those who would get an abortion

I’m not sure where you got the idea anyone can judge.

We cannot stand in judgment over another.

That doesn’t mean we can make no judgments about the rightness or wrongness of actions. We certainly can and we do all the time. We can know what is evil and what is good.

but I feel as if I had been old enough at the time I would have voted ‘yes’.

Wow. Voting for murder is gravely wrong. Keep studying why abortion is a grave sin and a grave crime and injustice against the smallest innocent humans.

And I feel guilty about this!

Good. That means your conscience hasn’t been completely extinguished.

But abortion isn’t like adultery or rape; crimes and sins which are very black and white and definitely wrong.

Um. Yes it is. It is the murder of a child.

What if the mother’s health is at risk?

Then the doctor has two patients.

Killing a child is not a treatment for the mother. It is legitimate to treat the mother. It is legitimate to try to save both. Sometimes the child might die in that effort. That isn’t an abortion. Killing the child is not a legitimate treatment for the mother.

What if the child is brain dead?

Then the child will die a natural death with dignity.

What if the mother was raped or if the child was inbred?

I’m not aware of any civilized nation that executed children for their parent’s crimes.

The child still has dignity and a right to life.

we get to scream ‘murderer’ and ‘whore’ at?

Um, no. Not sure where you got that idea. Melodramatic much? The Church doesn’t teach to do this, and in fact it is quite against Church teaching to do so.

 

[1ke]

Would Jesus not tell us to talk to and comfort them, and to give them support in whatever decision they finally came to?

Yes, however he would not condone abortion. He would certainly want to comfort them and help them see a better way for themselves and their children.

protest outside of Irish abortion clinics and hospitals like they do with Planned Parenthood over there, something I find terrible.

Some people protest. Others counsel women and offer alternatives and help. I’ve been one of the latter.

Women should be spoken to gently and kindly, and allowed to make whatever decision they like in the end

Yes people should be treated with kindness. And ultimately they have free will. That does not mean we should allow evil to masquerade as good, that we should allow evil to be legal, and that we should act as if we have no right to call an evil what it is in the public square.

Am I wrong to support them, support pro-choice, whilst being pro-life with myself?

Yes.

Keep studying.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Ann – I think that we can all see that you are honestly struggling to come to terms with this. Modern secular society says abortion is okay, whereas the Church says it is a major sin, basically murder. I respect your attempt to figure this out and look at it honestly!

 

[DeniseNY]

I think you have been given some great advice here (I’d get out while the gettin’ is good, because these types of threads tend to go haywire). I would also encourage you to speak to your pastor for spiritual guidance…

 

[Saxum]

There’s no need to overthink the issue.

Abortion is obviously evil. Anybody with common sense knows this.

But just in case people are struggling, they can stop the analysis and trust in the Church. The Church has the answer to any moral issue. Just accept it. That’s my solution and attitude towards things. I don’t listen to the BS in the media or in the schools or in the courts. I listen to the Church.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Ann – do you really think that Jesus would be okay with a mother having her unborn baby killed in the womb? Because that’s what abortion is, right?

 

[LawyersGunsAndMoney]

(I’d get out while the gettin’ is good, because these types of threads tend to go haywire).

I do hope people recognize that the OP appears to be sincerely confused, not evil or malicious.

 

[ann0]

Thank you that was actually very nice to hear. I think I understand the situation much better now from everyone’s replies thank you

 

[runningdude]

But does that mean that I cannot support those who choose to?

Do you believe it would be a sin to support a father who chose to euthanize his newborn?

Even Irish pro-lifers, Catholics I know, have come together to vandalise clinics and threaten abortion doctors.

Just because some prolifers are irresponsible doesn’t mean the position is wrong.

 

[Beryllos]

By ‘gently and kindly’ I didn’t mean, ‘I see you want to kill your child, and that’s a-okay with me, it’s your choice!’ I meant more so along the lines of not villianising them, but rather trying to reach out to them and trying to dissect why they want an abortion, whether their argument is the only option and why if they truly believe they can rest with their morals afterwards with respect . I don’t think all women who get abortions are murderers. Most of them are confused and scared and when they were trying to figure out what to do could have benefited with a kind and respectful discussion about what exactly they were about to do rather than be compared straight away to a murderer who would drown their child or kill a homeless man (both crimes, which seem pretty black and white like I earlier desccribed.)

You are quite right that women who are thinking about having an abortion and women who have had an abortion should be treated with respect, compassion, and good will.

If the abortion has not yet taken place, I think we should be careful to avoid giving permission or encouragement for abortion. We could, again with respect, compassion, and good will, draw their attention toward life-giving options and alternatives.

If the abortion has already taken place, we should strictly avoid passing judgement on the woman. The act of abortion is evil, but it is simply not our place to judge the woman’s mind, heart, and circumstances. We should love her, and if we do anything at all, it should be to come to her aid for healing (of her spirit) and reconciliation. That is how we cooperate with God’s love, mercy, and gift of grace for her.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Then the doctor has two patients.

This is the best and most succinct answer to this question I’ve ever heard. I’m stealing this.

 

[on_the_hill]

Do I think it’s a sin to be pro-choice? Hmm…I’m not sure. I’m really not sure.

What I want is a world where people (women, actually) say, “I won’t have an abortion because it is horrifically wrong,” rather than, “I won’t have an abortion because it’s illegal.”

But maybe that goes for everyone who’s pro-life.