Is it a sin to believe that only Catholics go to heaven..?

[Malleus_01]

There have been alot of Catholics throughout history, and even some today who believe that only Catholics, exclusively, can go to heaven…

Are these Catholics living in sin…?

Malleus: All Catholics must believe in the Dogma of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus " or they are no longer Catholic.

So for all intents and purposes - you are asking the following question.

There have been “alot” (as in ALL? ) Catholics throughout history who believe in the Catholic Dogma of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus " which translated means there is no Salvation outside of the Catholic Church.

Are these Catholics “living” in Sin? Well - if they are living together (Men and Women) without the Benefit of the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony then yes. pun intended. If they do not believe the Dogma of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus " then they have separated themselves from the Catholic Church by refusing to believe Dogma.

 

[Cristiano]

Malleus: All Catholics must believe in the Dogma of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus " or they are no longer Catholic…

Yeah, right!

With that statement you imply that they loose the effect of their Baptism and of the other sacraments!

 

[Malleus_01]

Yeah, right!

With that statement you imply that they loose the effect of their Baptism and of the other sacraments!

Definition of HERESY

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”. "The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church. The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness–free choice–is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one’s own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of “freely willed”.

Learn your faith.

 

[Cristiano]

Definition of HERESY

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”. "The right Christian faith consists in giving one’s voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are, therefore, two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ’s doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church. The believer accepts the whole deposit as proposed by the Church; the heretic accepts only such parts of it as commend themselves to his own approval. The heretical tenets may be ignorance of the true creed, erroneous judgment, imperfect apprehension and comprehension of dogmas: in none of these does the will play an appreciable part, wherefore one of the necessary conditions of sinfulness–free choice–is wanting and such heresy is merely objective, or material. On the other hand the will may freely incline the intellect to adhere to tenets declared false by the Divine teaching authority of the Church. The impelling motives are many: intellectual pride or exaggerated reliance on one’s own insight; the illusions of religious zeal; the allurements of political or ecclesiastical power; the ties of material interests and personal status; and perhaps others more dishonourable. Heresy thus willed is imputable to the subject and carries with it a varying degree of guilt; it is called formal, because to the material error it adds the informative element of “freely willed”.

Learn your faith.

So you are saying that they are heretics and that is quite correct. However, you still have to prove to me that they are not Catholics anymore, and that implies that they loose the effect of their Baptism and of the other sacraments! That also implies that they need to be re-baptized to be Catholics again. Are you saying that it is possible to baptize people more than once?

I would encourage you to go back and study your catechism before ad hominem attacks.

 

[Malleus_01]

So you are saying that they are heretics and that is quite correct. However, you still have to prove to me that they are not Catholics anymore, and that implies that they loose the effect of their Baptism and of the other sacraments! That also implies that they need to be re-baptized to be Catholics again. Are you saying that it is possible to baptize people more than once?

I would encourage you to go back and study your catechism before ad hominem attacks.

The Original question is - Is it a Sin to believe that Only Catholics Go to Heaven.

That is DOGMA.

HERESY places one OUTSIDE the CHURCH. Their Baptism is Valid. But what does that matter. Are you saying that there are no Validly Baptised People in HELL? Depending on the Nature of the HERESY - a Bishop or perhaps even the POPE may have to absolve them of their HERESY and require them to recant. They most certainly cannot receive the Sacraments of the Church unles they return to her. And if the Heresy is in thought alone - their reception of the Sacraments in such a state are a Sacriledge and a Sin in and of themselves… A Heretic is a Heretic. So if you want to call Arius a Catholic go right ahead.

 

[PJM]

=damooster;6502176]I’d also like to point out that many people (including Catholics) get upset and even angry when they hear that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. They get defensive because they take it as an elitist stance. In the short year that I’ve been a Catholic, I’ve had family and friends ask questions like “who gave the Catholic Church the power to hoard salvation” and “oh, so you’re better than me now?”

Actually God did!

**Read carefully Matt. 16: 15-19 AND Matt. 18:18 AND John 20:19-23 :**thumbsup:

Matt. 16: 15-19 [15] He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered Him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. …

**[19] **I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

I think we (Catholics) need to use this opportunity to show that 1. Our Lord, Jesus Christ established the Church (not you or I) and 2. we aren’t trying to keep people out of the Church, but rather we are telling everyone that we are the true Church because we want to save as man souls as we can.

Excllent responce: Amen!

It’s easy to shrug stuff off and say “oh, yeah you’re totally getting in to Heaven,” but I believe true love is putting your hand on your family and/or friends’ shoulder and saying “I love you and I want you to know the truth.” That’s the real problem here; many people, when provided this opportunity, go around the truth to prevent hurting someone’s feelings. We should be running to opportunities like this.

Just my :twocents:.

Wecome HOME! Your doing GREAT!

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[numealinesimpet]

Why not just believe what is written in John 3:16? One must be born again to receive the Kingdom of Heaven.

All it takes to enter Heaven is to believe what our Lord did for us.

Not so, Nightingales, if I may be so bold: and let all beware of picking single texts out of Scripture. The fact is that nobody, not even the writers of the Bible, can say *everything all *the time. The Bible doesn’t even try. My own belief is that by doing this, God made room for the Catholic Church to provide the reasoned, systematic account of the Faith that she has, and also leaving room for Mysticism and much else besides. I have sometimes heard a Sola Scriptura Protestant say, “why doesn’t the Catholic Church just issue a book giving their interpretation of Scripture, line by line?” The answer is related to what pnewton said in an earlier post: Actually there is quite a wide latitude in Catholic belief, so long as one does not directly contradict what has been definitively laid down. After that, “Roma locutus, casus finitus” – “Rome has spoken, the matter is closed”.

In the present case, the text you quote must be laid alongside every other text on the subject, including John 3: 5 where Our Lord says to Nicodemus, “Unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God”.

There is nothing anywhere that ever states that one must belong to the Catholic church.

Oh yes there is. Actually, it’s all over the New Testament. After the fall of the Soviet Union, many from the subject countries had access to things like Bibles for the very first time, and I have spoken to some who, haviing read the New Testament attentively, converted from their first choice (Baptists, who got there first) to the Catholic Church. They had no baggage of centuries of inerited hatred. They read the Bible, and realised that the Catholic Church was the bearer of Salvation.

 

[choy]

There have been alot of Catholics throughout history, and even some today who believe that only Catholics, exclusively, can go to heaven…

Are these Catholics living in sin…?

judge not lest ye be judged
the authority to determine who goes into heaven or not rests in Jesus alone
i may be wrong, but i think its a sin of Pride if we think we can determine who goes into heaven or not. because we think we’re better than Jesus in that aspect. while the Catholic Church gives us the best chances to get into heaven, ultimately its Jesus who will determine that

 

[numealinesimpet]

judge not lest ye be judged
the authority to determine who goes into heaven or not rests in Jesus alone
i may be wrong, but i think its a sin of Pride if we think we can determine who goes into heaven or not. because we think we’re better than Jesus in that aspect. while the Catholic Church gives us the best chances to get into heaven, ultimately its Jesus who will determine that

Well, that’s not quite right. Both Ecumenical Councils (Trent, and Vatican II in Lumen Gentium) stress that God has a 'Normal Way" to Heaven – public membership of the Catholic Church – but may have secret ways to induct “pagans who love the Truth” into the Church. Catholic teaching is that such belong to the Soul of the Church. The Feenyites insist that God must somehow provide actual water to effect the Sacrament; the weight of testimony of the Fathers and Ecumenical Councils would seem to affirm that God may effect the Miracle of Sanctifying Grace even without a visible sign.

We are not talking of named individuals, choy; as a previous poster commented, it is not an opinion but a dogma (ie a certified ‘teaching’ of the Catholic Faith) that* ‘membership’ of the Mystical Body of Christ is a prerequisite *for entrance into the Kingdom. It is never Pride to repeat what Our Lord has once said: rather it is Pride not to do so.

 

[peary]

That’s kind of a selfish attitude, don’t you think?

 

[Ryan_Miller]

When it is said that, “Outside the Church, there is no salvation,” it means you must be connected to the Church in some way in order to be saved. If someone cannot receive the sacrament of baptism, he can still be saved through baptism of blood (dying for the sake of the Church) or baptism of desire (a desire to enter the Church). Baptism of desire can either be explicit (when the person knows of the church and wants to be baptized but was never able to) or implicit (when a person lives without ever knowing about the church but loves God in whatever form and wants to do what is necessary to save his soul). Humans are not in the position to directly discern if a particular person is in hell.

 

[bayernfan]

There have been alot of Catholics throughout history, and even some today who believe that only Catholics, exclusively, can go to heaven…

Are these Catholics living in sin…?

Nope, only Catholics are in Heaven.

Of course, that’s not to say that, theoretically, a Protestant could, by invincible ignorance, make it into Heaven, but once he’s there, he’s definitely Catholic.

 

[poker10]

Nope, only Catholics are in Heaven.

Of course, that’s not to say that, theoretically, a Protestant could, by invincible ignorance, make it into Heaven, but once he’s there, he’s definitely Catholic.

Well, not totally Catholic. I’m guessing nobody observes any fasts or feasts or quarrels about Latin vs. NO masses or celebrates the sacraments. Maybe you could call the post-Earth Catholics or Kingdom of Heaven Catholics.

 

[archangel04]

In my opinion only Catholics enter the kingdom of heaven. Let me explain what I mean. The Church teaches there is no salvation outside of the Church. This is Truth no matter what anyone says! Now those that are not part of the Church still have the opportunity to be saved by baptism of blood, and I forget the other one In any case those people are baptized and once baptized all of your sins are forgiven and leaving you in a state free of any sin and fully in the Catholic Church. Yes this is not the way you would think of a Catholic, as most of us grow up we are baptized, first communion, & confirmation. But the fact is that only through baptism are we able to win the Kingdom, hence making you Catholic. You don’t seize to be Catholic after you die, this is eternal because to be Catholic is not just in the name, but part of the mystical body of Christ.

 

[numealinesimpet]

That’s kind of a selfish attitude, don’t you think?

It would be so if it came from anywhere but Christ Himself. Similarly, it has been said that the Parable of the Prodigal Son must have come straight from God, because nobody else would have dared make it up. Indeed, the same could be said for many other sayings (not to mention actions) of His.
I would be much less happy if the infallible teaching was that there must be a sign visible to us, of water baptism. What about the thousands of years of Australian aborigines, for example? I don’t see how that could be squared with the infallible dogma that all souls are given “Sufficient Grace” to reach Heaven.
S. Therese of Liseux has an interesting comment in her autobiography: God wants an artistically-planted Garden of Souls, with some splendiferous cultivated wonders, some ordinary garden flowers, and the souls of pagans who never heard the Gospel or received the other Sacraments in this life: these she calls “God’s Wild flowers”. She seemed in no doubt that such as these can be part of God’s Garden of Souls.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Well, not totally Catholic. I’m guessing nobody observes any fasts or feasts or quarrels about Latin vs. NO masses or celebrates the sacraments. Maybe you could call the post-Earth Catholics or Kingdom of Heaven Catholics.

OK I know you’re a wee bit “tongue in cheek” here, but Ann Catherine Emmerich or S. Lydwine of Sweden (I always get them mixed up), from her extensive visions of Heaven, stated that the Feasts are indeed celebrated in Heaven. Her visions are definitely not mere videos: when she saw the Nativity, it was as if she was there and could talk to Mary & Joseph, for example) … but she described her visions of the Keeping of Feasts as though each one were like a huge Cathedral on a floating island. Each one was identified in some way with the Roman Calendar, and the Feasts of OUr Lady or Our Lord were seen to be connected in some way with the Incarnation or the Passion, but the idea seemed to be that you could just drop in on them. I have wondered before if the experience of “aevum” in Heaven (the state of souls in Heaven that replaces “time”) would be something like this. You could ‘drop ion on’ certain events and places.

Also, it is remarked that Heaven before and after the Last Judgment will not be identical. Heaven at present is in touch with this world of Time. And we are the Church Militant. Certain things are there in our lives to prepare us for Heaven; those who get there will find the fruits of their labour, united with God’s Grace. There will presumably not be fasting, but the soul will benefit eternally from the good that cam to it from the discipline of fasting.

I get the impression, poker10, that maybe you weren’t taught the theology of the tripatite nature of the Church: the Church Militant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant. It is all contained in that.

 

[DominionKing]

there’s no such thing as ‘catholic’

 

[SouthpawLink]

There have been alot of Catholics throughout history, and even some today who believe that only Catholics, exclusively, can go to heaven…

Are these Catholics living in sin…?

No, because it’s the truth. Everyone must belong to the Church in some manner (at least have divine faith - which includes explicit belief in the Trinity and Incarnation - and perfect charity and be invincibly ignorant of their errors) to be saved.

 

[Love_the_Lorax]

Which definition of ‘catholic’ are you referring to?

there’s no such thing as ‘catholic’

 

[TEPO]

Wow, this old thread is back…? Very well.

Here lately I was thinking that since the Holy Church obtains the sole authority to absolve Her parts of sin, that it is absolutely essential to be Catholic to go to heaven…

Maybe individuals from other faiths who have never mortally sinned, yet desire baptism can go to heaven, while all those who are stained by mortal sin remain stained for eternity.

Through the Holy Spirit we are absolved from sin which is why the Catholic Church is noted in the CCC as the “Temple of the Holy Spirit”.