Is it a sin to click a box saying that you have read the TOS if you haven't

[RobDH]

Of course it’s a sin!
Minor, but a sin never-the-less.

Did I read the TOS here?
Yes.

Do I remember what it said?
Nope. But I read it.

 

[jmj603]

Moral theology isn’t for the faint of heart.

On further reflection, I take it back. Moral theology is for everyone.

 

[Catholig]

Well I aksed a priest about the same day I posted this thread and he told me that it wouldn’t be a sin. He said that it is similar to aswering “fine” when someone asks you “how are you?” or “how’s it going?” (I forgot which he used in his example, exactly).

One question for those who think it is (and really not to get at them or be offensive) though - what if it says something along the lines of “read and understand”. Then what. Because sometimes it is quite difficult to understand these things. Would you just give up or would you ask someone to clarify it for you?

Catholig

 

[jmj603]

Well I aksed a priest about the same day I posted this thread and he told me that it wouldn’t be a sin. He said that it is similar to aswering “fine” when someone asks you “how are you?” or “how’s it going?” (I forgot which he used in his example, exactly).

As Catholics, we’re always fine, because we have Christ.

One question for those who think it is (and really not to get at them or be offensive) though - what if it says something along the lines of “read and understand”. Then what. Because sometimes it is quite difficult to understand these things. Would you just give up or would you ask someone to clarify it for you?

If you think you don’t understand it, then you can’t say you do, right? But I think most people click “Yes” without reading it because they understand it just fine, without reading it.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Often for things some people do online, those who research professionally, etc, they run into this all the time. Refusing the service because you don’t have time to go blind reading thousands of paragraphs of legalese and gobbledygook would mean you cannot electronically proceed to the next step, which is what you want to do your work.

What is written in subparagraph (a)(12) is not necessarily germane to my day.

And judging those and feeling superior to those of us who do not have the time or luxury of reading boilerplate is unChristian. If you click NO, you cannot go to the site or get the product.

If I download something for my computer, I do not intend to distribute it to someone in Asia, so it doesn’t apply to me anyway.

I wouldn’t want to be your realtor and the guys at the mortgage company when it comes to signing 30 pages of teeny print to buy your house.

Shoot me. I have LIED! I will burn in hell! I am an infidel.

God will smite me. Even though I have never used artificial birth control, had premarital sex, used illegal drugs, gotten drunk, smoked a cigarette, been unfaithful to my faithless husband, missed Mass without being at death’s door or with a sick baby, stolen, embezzled, received Communion unworthily… Masturbation is not something I struggle with. I do not use porn. I do not overeat. I pay my taxes. I go to Mass more than the obligatory once a week. I do not beat my kids. I give to widows and orphans…

Doesn’t matter. I am a hypocrite and a liar and am unfaithful to God in your eyes.

Nice. You are SURE I’m going to be unfaithful to God in the big things? You’re SURE He doesn’t trust me in big matters?

I’m glad you’re not God. I’ll make my peace with Him over the TOS on my own. I suspect He understands and has His own reward waiting for those who write boilerplate argle bargle.



By the way, people like you might scare away converts. What did Christ say about pharisees straining at gnats?

 

[jmj603]

I will burn in hell!

This isn’t grave matter.

I wouldn’t want to be your realtor and the guys at the mortgage company when it comes to signing 30 pages of teeny print to buy your house.

Try asking them, “do I have to read all 30 pages”. Usually they’ll say no, and you’ll enter a valid legal contract with them by signing your name on a spot on the paper they present to you.

By the way, people like you might scare away converts.

Catholic teaching on sex will do that more effectively. Should we shut up about that topic on catholic.com’s moral theology forum?

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Actually, many people who will buy Catholicism’s wonderful teachings on sexuality would think being condemned by a fellow Christian for not reading that infernal TOS is too much.

Straining at gnats!

 

[Catholig]

Try asking them, “do I have to read all 30 pages”. Usually they’ll say no, and you’ll enter a valid legal contract with them by signing your name on a spot on the paper they present to you.

I think there would be a bit on the line that says I have “read and understand” so whoever says you don’t have to read all 30 pages would be lying, and not have authority to tell you that you don’t have to, meaning that you’d be sinning by accepting his word.

Catholig

 

[jmj603]

I think there would be a bit on the line that says I have “read and understand” so whoever says you don’t have to read all 30 pages would be lying, and not have authority to tell you that you don’t have to, meaning that you’d be sinning by accepting his word.

I think he would have the authority to tell you that you don’t have to, because he’s an agent or representative of the company with whom you are signing the contract. A contract is not a piece of paper, it is a meeting of the minds between two parties.

In any event, I haven’t actually signed a mortgage, but I have read TOS’s.

 

[jmj603]

Actually, many people who will buy Catholicism’s wonderful teachings on sexuality would think being condemned by a fellow Christian for not reading that infernal TOS is too much.

And many would feel the opposite way, and would gladly join a religion that promises them eternal Salvation for reading TOS’s while allowing sins of the flesh.

But there are some who would like to follow all the Commandments.

Again, this is a venial sin, and it is perhaps a greater sin to get upset over it, because it is wasting our time. But if we admit fibs and “white lies” and commit them deliberately, then we are on the slippery slope to Hell.

Straining at gnats!

It’s not the straining at gnats that matters, it’s the swallowing the camel. Swallowing the camel while straining at gnats compounds the sin, because it’s a form of hypocrisy, which is a sin against the Holy Spirit. Please pray that I don’t swallow the camel while I’m straining at gnats with you.

 

[John_Higgins]

Is it a sin to think something is a sin when it’s not?

Wow!

 

[Catholig]

Is it a sin to think something is a sin when it’s not?

Wow!

To do something while under the impression that it is a sin is a sin regardless of whether the action that one thinks is a sin be a sin or not.

Catholig

 

[jmj603]

Is it a sin to think something is a sin when it’s not?

Wow!

Here, if you can, get us all off the hook:

1. "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving."281 The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: "You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."282

1. Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man’s relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.

1. The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error.

1. By its very nature, lying is to be condemned. It is a profanation of speech, whereas the purpose of speech is to communicate known truth to others. The deliberate intention of leading a neighbor into error by saying things contrary to the truth constitutes a failure in justice and charity. The culpability is greater when the intention of deceiving entails the risk of deadly consequences for those who are led astray.

1. Since it violates the virtue of truthfulness, a lie does real violence to another. It affects his ability to know, which is a condition of every judgment and decision. It contains the seed of discord and all consequent evils. Lying is destructive of society; it undermines trust among men and tears apart the fabric of social relationships.

 

[JimG]

Oh my goodness. The Scribes and Pharisees would have had a great time with the TOS block. Did you lie to your computer? Unclean! Unclean!

I just looked at the printing above the signature block in my tax return. It says that under penalty of perjury, I declare that I have examined this return and the accompanying schedules and attachments, and they are true, correct, and complete, to the best of my knowledge and belief.

OK, I can make that certification, because I prepared my own tax return, and my schedules are not complicated. But sometimes I use a computer program, and don’t examine it at all. And most people have their returns professionally prepared. When they sign the return, have they examined it, and all accompanying schedules? Or do they just sign, without examining anything. How about the spouse? If they sign without exmamining it, have they therefore–heaven forbid–lied? Bring out those moral theology textbooks. See you in the confessional.

Bless me father, for I have sinned. I clicked on the TOS without reading it, oh about 100 times.

 

[jmj603]

Bless me father, for I have sinned. I clicked on the TOS without reading it, oh about 100 times.

You said it.

 

[JimG]

In Luke 11:37ff, there is a story of Jesus going to the house of a Pharisee for dinner. He entered and reclined at table, but did not perform the requisite ablutions first. The Pharisee expressed surprise that he did not follow this rule. Jesus was, after all, and Jew, and the ablutions were part of the Jewish law.

Now, Jesus might have said, “it’s only a minor matter–a venial sin at most. Let it go.” But he didn’t. Instead, he went on a rant against the Pharisees! He called them fools and worse. Then, in verse 45, one of the lawyers speaks up, complaining “Teacher, in speaking this way, you insult us too.” Jesus then begins a rant against the lawyers, starting with “Woe to you lawyers too!” and goes on to berate them for several more paragraphs.

Two thoughts. First, those who always speak only of the mild and gentle Jesus need to meditate on some of his rants against the scribes and the Pharisees. Second, he seems to reserve some of his worst condemnations for those who in his time were scrupulous in insisting that every smallest aspect of the law be followed in every circumstance.

 

[noofy311]

Thank You JimG!!!
The sniping at each resulting from nit-picking is worse than the original issue, IMO.

 

[Syele]

I find it interesting that intent has been left out of this thread completely? Why is that? The pharisees whom Jesus ranted against, followed to RULES but ignored the POINT of the rules. This was their failing. It wasn’t that they were nitpicky about the rules, it was that they ignored the point in favor of the rules themselves.

Why were absolutions done before eating? Why were people supposed to rest on the Sabbath? Answer the whys and you’ll see that Jesus did not ever violate the point of those rules, even though He violated the letter of the law. So in this case, I’d say we have to look at teh Whys and the point of the whole thing.

Why are we asked to read the TOS?
What is the point of the TOS?
Why do we choose not to read them?

Is the goal a Godly one? IS the goal and ungodly one? Is it important to read them and why?

What I see is that there IS a reason to read it… so that we can avoid promising to do things we should not do and so we can be sure we are abiding by what we say we will (Let your yes be yes…) Only reason for skipping it I can see is laziness, and apathy. We don’t really care what’s in the TOS and we are too lazy or in too much of a rush to be bothered with them.

 

[jmj603]

In Luke 11:37ff, there is a story of Jesus going to the house of a Pharisee for dinner. He entered and reclined at table, but did not perform the requisite ablutions first. The Pharisee expressed surprise that he did not follow this rule. Jesus was, after all, and Jew, and the ablutions were part of the Jewish law.

Now, Jesus might have said, “it’s only a minor matter–a venial sin at most. Let it go.” But he didn’t.

Ritual ablutions for laymen was not part of Divine law, but a later tradition added by the Pharisaic interpreters. Jesus was not a layman, but his priesthood was of the order of Melchisedek, not the order of Aaron. This purification is certainly not part of the Ten Commandments.

Jesus hates sin, and would never say, “it’s only a minor matter–a venial sin at most. Let it go.” Jesus never sinned in his whole life.

Instead, he went on a rant against the Pharisees! He called them fools and worse.

Yes, and why? Because they were wicked on the inside.

Second, he seems to reserve some of his worst condemnations for those who in his time were scrupulous in insisting that every smallest aspect of the law be followed in every circumstance.

In v. 41, he said “But woe to you Pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.”

So Jesus is saying, you ought to tithe on mint and rue and every herb. Did Jesus condemn Jesus for insisting that the every smallest aspect of the law be followed?

The only way you can attack someone for following the law to its conclusion is by knowing the rottenness of their heart, like Jesus did. It wasn’t that the Pharisees followed the law. The Pharisees broke the law, by being “full of extortion and wickedness” and by “neglect[ing] justice and the love of God”. They took pride in tithing on mint and rue and every herb, perhaps because it is more than most people would do, or because it required a heroic effort, but they stopped there. They didn’t purify their hearts. They still sinned, and grievously.

 

[childofmary1143]

As Catholics, we’re always fine, because we have Christ.

Not true. If we are in the state of mortal sin, we most definitely don’t HAVE CHRIST. Unless you think that Catholics can’t commit mortal sin??

It may be a venial sin to click the box but it is certainly not a mortal sin.