Is it a sin to immigrate illegally?

[sprout]

… it is still a sin, and if someone has invited them unlawfully, then they are sinning as well! .

I must have missed that part of the CCC that says migrating to find work to feed your family is a sin. Traveling to other lands to accept work offered is a sin. Can you give me a reference?

I can find plenty of references, both biblical and in the CCC and in papal encyclicals that say just the opposite. If you’d like I can give the references.

The Israelites’ experience of living as homeless aliens was so painful and frightening that God ordered his people for all time to have special care for the alien: “You shall treat the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you; have the same love for him as for yourself; for you too were once aliens in the land of Egypt” (Lv 19:33-34).

The New Testament begins with Matthew’s story of Joseph and Mary’s escape to Egypt with their newborn son, Jesus, because the paranoid and jealous King Herod wanted to kill the infant. Our Savior himself lived as a refugee because his own land was not safe.

Jesus reiterates the Old Testament command to love and care for the stranger, a criterion by which we shall be judged: “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me” (Mt 25:35).

The Apostle Paul asserts the absolute equality of all people before God: “There is neither Jew nor Greek . . . for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:28). In Christ, the human race is one before God, equal in dignity and rights.

usccb.org/mrs/cst.shtml

There are all kinds of admonitions for us to feed the hungry and to treat the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you; it’s even one of the sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance, yet I can’t seem to find a single clear reference that migrating to provide for a family or escape persecution is a sin.

 

[Jack_Fisher]

the USA granted over a million visas for lawful permanent residents (“green cards”) in 2006, and about the same number in 2005, Department of Homeland Security, Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, 2006 (family based, work related, etc.), and just under 6 million non-immigrant visas in 2006, same source, which includes visitors, fiancees, refugees and people asking for asylum, including the T Visa, “Victim of Severe Form of Trafficking in Persons”.

here’s a spreadsheet with the numbers of LPR visas going back to 1820, roughly a million a year since 2000.

the pro-illegal immigrant supporters ignore or are simply unaware of statistics like this because its easier for them to paint the USA as a monster in order to generate undeserved sympathy for the criminal behavior of those who don’t want to take the time to immigrate legally, or who are criminals who can’t immigrate legally.

the USA is doing far more than its share of humanitarian relief in this area.

 

[sprout]

There are five preference categories of visas for permanent immigration status and only one is set aside for workers in less-skilled jobs. Four of the five favor immigrants with higher levels of education or financial capital and are therefore not relevant to less-skilled workers. The remaining category, the employment-based “third preference,” allots only **5,000 **visas each year to workers in occupations that require less than two years of higher education, training, or experience. This visa category, which is designated for “other workers,” is nearly the only employment-based avenue for permanent immigration available to workers in less-skilled jobs. About 71 percent of Mexicans receiving an employment-based visa for permanent immigration to the United States used this preference category in 2001.

• According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 48 percent of all job openings, some 27 million positions, between 2002 and 2012 “are expected to be held by workers who have a high school diploma or less education.”
• Given that 12.5 percent of native-born adults age 25 and older lacked a high school diploma in 2003, compared to 32.8 percent of the foreign-born, it is clear that a large number of less-skilled jobs will be filled by immigrants.
• According to the 2003 American Community Survey, Mexicans comprised 30.7 percent of all foreign-born workers in the United States, but amounted to 88.8 percent of the foreign-born labor force in “farming, fishing, and forestry”; 60.2 percent in “construction and extraction”; and 51.6 percent in “building and grounds cleaning and maintenance.”
• Only one of the five categories of visas for permanent immigration status is tailored to less-skilled workers, and it is capped at 5,000 visas per year.
• Only **two of the 16 **employment-based visa categories for temporary immigrant status are available to workers in industries that require little or no formal training. One (H2A) is restricted to agricultural workers and the other (H2B) is not only capped at 66,000, but is limited to “seasonal” or otherwise “temporary” work that is defined so restrictively as to disqualify workers in many industries.
• Roughly 76 percent of Mexicans receiving temporary work visas in 2002 were recipients of only H2A and H2B visas. In other words, Mexican workers are crowded into categories in which few visas are available for most industries.
• The family-based immigration system is not capable of compensating for deficiencies in the employment-based system due to arbitrary numerical caps. In the case of Mexican nationals, **wait times for visas under the “family preference” system are currently 7-10 years for the spouse of an LPR **and 10-12 years for the unmarried adult child of a U.S. citizen.

ailf.org/ipc/nowayin.asp

 

[mackulit]

Yes, it is a sin to immigrate illegally. Just take the word “ILLEGAL” we can already conclude that it is wrong. Anything that are called illegal are wrong.

Mackulit

 

[Jack_Fisher]

There are five preference categories of visas for permanent immigration status and only one is set aside for workers in less-skilled jobs.

this is proof that illegal immigration proponents are more interested in getting foreigners into and then staying in the US, rather than simply working here. the poster refers to immigration visas, a misleading argument. seasonal and agricultural employment of foreign workers is permitted through the non-immigrant H-2A visa (with H4 for spouse and children), good for up to three years.

“The H-2A temporary agricultural program establishes a means for agricultural employers who anticipate a shortage of domestic workers to bring nonimmigrant foreign workers to the U.S. to perform agricultural labor or services of a temporary or seasonal nature.” from the US Dept Labor. this visa guarantees employment at a fair or prevailing rate.

the more than generous US policy on the admission of refugees (70,000 of them): is found here this track leads to LPR status, with the cap on green cards issued yearly going up again this year.

Four of the five favor immigrants with higher levels of education or financial capital and are therefore not relevant to less-skilled workers. The remaining category, the employment-based “third preference,” allots only **5,000 **visas each year to workers in occupations that require less than two years of higher education,

Congress, expressing the will of Americans, has the unambiguous right to set immigration preference policy. the policy is set to encourage immigrantsr can best economically, academically and culturally benefit the US. unskilled foreign labor has a role, but it is subordinate to recruitment of Americans.

*]The family-based immigration system is not capable of compensating for deficiencies in the employment-based system due to arbitrary numerical caps. In the case of Mexican nationals, wait times for visas under the “family preference” system are currently 7-10 years for the spouse of an LPR and 10-12 years for the unmarried adult child of a U.S. citizen.
…

“arbitrary” as in “arbitrary because the author’s favorite immigrant’s goat is being gored”. everyone - not just Mexican nationals – waits years until their visa number comes up.

FYI, the priority date for Mexican national spouses of LPRs is April 2002, which is, let’s see … 5 years and change. not, as the article claims, 7-10 years. article quoting the Dept State Visa bulletin

JF

 

[sprout]

this is proof that illegal immigration proponents are more interested in getting foreigners into and then staying in the US, rather than simply working here. the poster refers to immigration visas, a misleading argument. seasonal and agricultural employment of foreign workers is permitted through the non-immigrant H-2A visa (with H4 for spouse and children), good for up to three years.

how can it be misleading when the very article I posted gave the data on both temporary and permanent visas? The artcle is discussing the need for more “temporary” worker visas to meet the growing US labor demands for *unskilled workers *that is poorly represented by the number of available legal options.

on the contrary, your post is the one that is attempting to mislead.

again, from the same article:

Of these 16 visa categories, only two – H2A and H2B – are available to workers in industries that require little or no formal training. H2As are restricted to agricultural workers. H2Bs are not only capped at 66,000, but are limited to “seasonal” or otherwise “temporary” work that is defined so restrictively as to disqualify workers in many industries. Workers in less-skilled jobs received only 16 percent of all temporary employment and training visas awarded in 2002. Roughly 76 percent of Mexicans receiving temporary work visas in 2002 were recipients of only H2A and H2B visas. In other words, Mexican workers are crowded into categories in which few visas are available for most industries.

Current immigration policies are completely out of sync with the U.S. economy’s demand for workers who fill less-skilled jobs, especially in the case of Mexican workers. Indeed, the current debate over whether or not to create a pathway to legal status for undocumented immigrants has more to do with labor policy than with undocumented immigration per se. While U.S. immigration policies present a wide array of avenues for immigrants to enter the United States, very few of these avenues are tailored to workers in less-skilled occupations. As a result, workers frequently use the family-based immigration system, which is plagued by delays that last for years and favors the relatively few immigrants who have U.S.-citizen and LPR relatives who can petition on their behalf. It should come as no surprise, then, that immigrants come to or remain in the United States without proper documentation in response to the strong economic demand for less-skilled labor. U.S. immigration policies should be reoriented to meet actual labor needs. President Bush and other prominent policymakers have begun a public discussion that appears to be heading in this direction. This effort is essential in order to bring efficiency and realism to U.S. immigration policy.

The US providing more legal entry options to higher class, higher educated, higher skilled workers can in no way be considered as providing for the poor as we are commanded by God.

btw: 5 years is still too long a time frame to reunite husband and wife, parents and children. Regardless of what the priority date is the reality of wait times of 7-10 years for family reunification is the “reality” in government bureacracies.

It used to be that, as a US Citizen, I could apply for and get a US passport in a matter of days. Now with the current demand for US Passports the expected wait is close to a year, regardless of what the “priority date” may be.

 

[Jack_Fisher]

then, sprout, suggest the general theme of amendments to the INA. assuming you’d exclude felons and ex-nazi war criminals, would you admit everyone? abolish border control?

I put it to you that allowing the corrupt Mexican regime to export discontented, displaced workers to the USA only perpetuates the regime itself, and that if you really want political reform, social justice and a fair economic system down there, you’d seal the borders and let la Revoluccion run its course. Mexico and the plight of its poor would be better served that way, in the long run.

 

[sprout]

I’m quite satisfied with doing my part in public discourse and contacting my elected officials with my concerns. There were a couple of bills before Congress that I supported and I do look with some favor on President Bush’s “Guest Worker” program.

I don’t see this issue in black & white terms, or all or nothing terms. I think that we are intelligent enough to be able to deal in the gray areas and find an equitable solution.

I believe it would be much easier to identify the criminals crossing our borders if more means for legal entry were available for those who are legitimately seeking work and/or family reunification. It would make it much easier if our Border Patrol to focus their efforts on catching drug smugglers and felons.

I also believe in taking the log out of my own eye first before trying to remove the speck out of my neighbor’s eye. That would translate to this issue as working to find a solution to the high demand for unskilled labor here. As long as employers continue to pay immigrants to come here and work, they will continue to come.

As far as contacting the INS?

…in the middle "80s… Howard Ezell was the western regional INS director based in L.A. He ordered massive raids on the farms and at race tracks in Del Mar and Santa Anita. He concentrated on the Riverside county and Orange county areas. He must have had four or five thousand undocumented workers rounded up. He displayed them on the side of the freeway (I have pictures of it) showing this is why we don’t have jobs in America and this is why we don’t need amnesty. He called it Operation Jobs, and once they were all deported he sent out job notices to replace the deported workers. He sent notices to colleges, unemployment offices, anywhere where people needed jobs. And people came out. They signed up for these jobs.

The first ones to go were the ones who went to work out on the farms, 8 or 10 hours a day, stooped over in the hot sun. They didn’t last even a week. The ones at the race-track who cleaned out horse stalls didn’t last two weeks. Ezell had to eat crow by making deals with these employers that they could get their workers back and that the Border Patrol couldn’t raid those farms and racetracks anymore. You should have heard all the complaints by these employers. Following that, the growers complained to Pete Wilson about these raids on the farms and he had to make a legal agreement that he wouldn’t raid the farms during harvesting time. This was all in the media. They need the workers.

I have interviewed farm workers in north county and at the border and they tell me that when they cross in groups the Border Patrol stops them and ask them where they are going. If they say they are going to Los Angeles or San Francisco they put them in the van. If they say they are going to north county to pick strawberries, because they need workers there, they’ll let them go. They get to go free. This tells you what a political football immigration is. And that’s why the Border Patrol is against having the military at the border. Not only is it possible that the military might replace them, but also they are not going to be able to allow these workers through where they need them here in north county or Salinas, or Fresno. It’s a labor issue.

Source: Interview with Roberto Martinez (1997) Immigration and Human Rights on the U.S. / Mexico Border

inmotionmagazine.com/border.html

 

[joab]

I do not buy into the statement" They (illegal immigrants) are only doing the jobs that Americans won’t do." I have worked since I was 6 in the fields, in the restaraunts, etc. There was no honest work that I or any of my 10 siblings turned down. Now the jobs are not there for my children. If they speak Spanish, in MN, they can get a job as a chief on the hog crew. They would be 18years old and running crews of adult Mexicans. This is wrong.

I have often thought that if all the 10-12 estimated illegals in this country went back to their homelands, they would be a powerful group that could change their homeland rules.

I believe it is a sin to immigrate illegally, since we need to obey the laws of our homelands.

 

[Jack_Fisher]

amazing, the argument pro-illegal immigration advocates make that no one but our browned skinned brothers south of the border can do the Job of picking weeds in the hot sun.

 

[mackulit]

It is not right to justify wrong doing. It is not right to steal on someone and give it to the poor who needed most. The question being asked is “Is it a sin to immigrate illegally ?” Explaining the bright side of this doesnt help. It is still wrong doing and because it is wrong then it is a sin. Wrong is wrong and right is right. There’s nothing we can do about it.

Mackulit

 

[sprout]

amazing, the argument pro-illegal immigration advocates make that no one but our browned skinned brothers south of the border can do the Job of picking weeds in the hot sun.

Amazing how the anti-immigrant, xenophobic, spin doctors have such trouble reading what’s actually written.

It’s *willing to do * rather than can do. And he was talking about produce, not weeds!

 

[RWMorris]

I have nothing but sympathy for Mexicans and others who are desperate to come to America. I wish them the best - but using the legal system. The Bible itself tells us to “Fear God; honor the king.” In such ways we then know to honor the laws of the land.
My personal feeling is that we should revise NAFTA to include open borders with Mexico and Canada. But along with that would go the ability for American citizens to have the right to own land in Mexico and Canada. I think a lot of Americans would like to own land in Mexico but right now we’re only allowed to “lease” it for 99 years. In my scenario there would be give and take in both systems.

 

[RobHom]

amazing, the argument pro-illegal immigration advocates make that no one but our browned skinned brothers south of the border can do the Job of picking weeds in the hot sun.

I am wholeheartedly against illegal immigration, but even I am aware that the illegal immigrants are the ones who will or are actually willing to do the work in the fields and groves. I haven’t seen any whites or blacks standing lines demanding those jobs, have you?

Yes, we need adjustments to our immigration laws, but at the same time in the world climate of danger that we exist in…national security has to be protected.

I have no problem with a guest worker program, but it has to be properly administered, and adhered to.

What many “pro-illegal immigration folks” don’t understand is that to further permit it, then allow unchecked influxes of foreign nationals into the US, followed by a wide ranging “amnesty”…that effectively grants an open door to citizenship or confers absolute rights under our constitution…what will follow is: A radical change in our political landscape. While that may not all together be a bad thing in some ways… Would it be better if suddenly we end up with a government as inept and corrupt as those south of the border?

 

[sprout]

What many “pro-illegal immigration folks” don’t understand is that to further permit it, then allow unchecked influxes of foreign nationals into the US, followed by a wide ranging “amnesty”…that effectively grants an open door to citizenship or confers absolute rights under our constitution…what will follow is: A radical change in our political landscape. While that may not all together be a bad thing in some ways… Would it be better if suddenly we end up with a government as inept and corrupt as those south of the border?

Like you, I think most people are not pro-illegal immigration, most people on both sides of the spectrum want our government to “act” and want reform and are very concerned about the current state of affairs.

 

[BB25]

The immigration system is broken and needs repair. TWhile the worker shortage has lead to higher wages for the workers who remain, farmers are still loosingh money. In fact, many orchadists are concerned because unless the find workers in the right time frame, the fruit remains on the tree and they loose money. And even if the pay well the fruit doesn’t get picked fast enough. So the small farmers sells to big company and the big guys get richer.

When people are not properly documented, they become vulnerable to exploitation and a system needs to be in put in place where people can get the documents they need and come and work. And when fixing the system becomes a hot topic in DC, we need to keep the following information in mind.

Currently many people profit from the undocumented in the areas of construction, hospitality, and agriculture. In fact any American who eats fresh produce profits from not paying $15 for a pound of cherries.

CCC1934- Created in the image of the one Godand equally endowed with rational souls, all men have the same nature and the same orgin. Rdeemed by the sacrifice of Christ, all are cared to particpate in the same divine beatitude:all therefore enjoy an equal dignity.

Catholic apologist G.K. Chesterton put it this way: “Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely happen to be walking about.”

For centuries people had the right to move in search of work. While the world is more complex and nations have the right to secure their borders, we must forget we are beholden to a higher standard.

Lastly as I stated before, for fellow Catholics to turn against our own and suggest they sin when they come to work is appalling if not scandalous. These people come to work and improve their lives. And if that is a sin, then I am sure that the First Nations of the country would have wanted to call us all sinners and deport the settlers to the old country as the pioneers never secured the proper permission from their government.

 

[KathleenElsie]

If you are going to be forced to have an abortion then no it is not a sin. Life trumps all.

If you are trying to make a better life for your family then I believe that you should stay in your home country and work toward social change. If all the good people just up and leave then who will make things better for those that can’t leave?

If you feel you can’t stay in your home country then you apply for legal immigration and wait your turn.

 

[BB25]

Dear Sister, I post this reply with respect to your commitment to the evangelical vows.

I think that you need to read the book of James. Otherwise what you suggest is that go ahead and have children but if you are hungry and your children suffering stay where you are and suffer and work for change. Eat well and stay warm my brother and too bad your children are suffering because big industry is polluting your country for so Big Mart can sell things at roll back prices. While in my country such a thing would be against the law.

Yes change is needed but to suggest that they sin because they want what you have is rank hypocripsy.

 

[Ender]

Yes change is needed but to suggest that they sin because they want what you have is rank hypocripsy.

It is not a sin to want what others have but it is a sin to take something to which you have no right - and it is certainly not hypocritical to object when that happens.

Ender

 

[sprout]

It is not a sin to want what others have but it is a sin to take something to which you have no right - and it is certainly not hypocritical to object when that happens.

Ender

actually they are not “taking something to which they have no right” since 1) they do have a God given right to work to feed their families and 2) they are not “taking” but being offered work to feed their familes.