Is it a sin to impregnate your wife when you are no longer happily married?

[dianaballein]

The subject line says it all.

Married couple. One child already that they were hoping would “heal” their marriage. The child has not healed them, in fact, even though the child is loved beyond measure, there is more stress in the marriage than ever before.

Thoughts?

 

[mary_bobo]

The subject line says it all.

Married couple. One child already that they were hoping would “heal” their marriage. The child has not healed them, in fact, even though the child is loved beyond measure, there is more stress in the marriage than ever before.

Thoughts?

I can’t imagine someone doing that on purpose. How about some counselling.

 

[dianaballein]

I can’t imagine someone doing that on purpose. How about some counselling.

Counseling has been attended, for quite a long time. These dear friends of mine have tried counseling inside and outside of the church with no change in the marriage.

In speaking to one of them, however, the subject came up about a sibling for the other child and I was taken aback because I can’t fathom bringing a baby into an unhappy marriage on purpose.

 

[Apryl]

I can’t imagine someone doing that on purpose. How about some counselling.

I’m sure that happens a lot! A lot of people do things like this intentionally, too

Counseling isn’t the question, though. The question was whether or not it was sinful to do something like this.

My thought is that is IS sinful. Why would you ‘complete the marriage act’ when you are not in a married state? (Using all these euphamisms is hard… but I think that the audience can follow)

If a couple is not happily married, to create a life would be likely to cause more strain, and the child that was created would be in a terrible spot for their entire life.

It would make much more sense to live as a brother-sister couple as you go through counseling to get your marriage back on track.

Now, if a couple is not so happy, and the pregnancy was totally unintentional, I don’t know if that could be called a sin. I would also think that this is also very common. If the couple is not happy, but a child happens to be the result of… y’know … I would think that would not be a sinful action.

But then, this IS a discussion board for a reason, right?

 

[dianaballein]

I agree Apryl. This is why I am asking because I am very confused. Logic tells me that the child in question should always be in the forefront, first and foremost. To be raised, intentionally, in a marriage whereby the child’s view of marriage is an unhealthy one, seems to me to perpetuate a negative cycle and sets the child up for so many life problems.

 

[Seatuck]

I’m sure that happens a lot! A lot of people do things like this intentionally, too

Counseling isn’t the question, though. The question was whether or not it was sinful to do something like this.

My thought is that is IS sinful. Why would you ‘complete the marriage act’ when you are not in a married state? (Using all these euphamisms is hard… but I think that the audience can follow)

If a couple is not happily married, to create a life would be likely to cause more strain, and the child that was created would be in a terrible spot for their entire life.

It would make much more sense to live as a brother-sister couple as you go through counseling to get your marriage back on track.

Now, if a couple is not so happy, and the pregnancy was totally unintentional, I don’t know if that could be called a sin. I would also think that this is also very common. If the couple is not happy, but a child happens to be the result of… y’know … I would think that would not be a sinful action.

But then, this IS a discussion board for a reason, right?

As long as they are validly married , this couple is in a marriage state and each spouse might be obligated to provide the marital debt. ( barring any details that might not be included in this thread that defer the marital debt).

Now it might be imprudent but that doesn’t make it a sin.

 

[dianaballein]

So if you are in a married state, you can intentionally do mental harm to your child? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

I have witnessed children who remain in unhealthy unhappy marriages and so often, the parents are not providing the proper guidance and example and are setting these kids up for failure in their own marriages.

 

[Newbie2]

As long as they are validly married , this couple is in a marriage state and each spouse might be obligated to provide the marital debt. ( barring any details that might not be included in this thread that defer the marital debt).

Now it might be imprudent but that doesn’t make it a sin.

I agree, unless there was some malicious intent such as “sticking the other spouse with an additional child to take care of after the divorce”, which would be really distorted thinking, granted.

I would wonder about the sex involved in the marriage; if they are no longer happily married, then it becomes more of an act of pleasure or of 'duty", if the purpose was solely to create a new baby.

Aside: Is there such a thing as an “old” baby?

So if you are in a married state, you can intentionally do mental harm to your child? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

I have witnessed children who remain in unhealthy unhappy marriages and so often, the parents are not providing the proper guidance and example and are setting these kids up for failure in their own marriages.

Absolutely. Anyone who thinks kid will fix a marriage is in for disappointent.

 

[dianaballein]

I would wonder about the sex involved in the marriage; if they are no longer happily married, then it becomes more of an act of pleasure or of 'duty", if the purpose was solely to create a new baby.

QUOTE]

Ok, this brings up another point. The act of sex with someone you no longer love…how is that different from being violated?

 

[Island_Oak]

If this is not your marriage, but someone else’s, what role could you possibly think you have in offering an opinion on this? Do you imagine you know the deepest parts of these people’s hearts or their affection/animosity for each other?

No one can ever truly “know” another couple’s marriage~regardless of what you think you see/hear when you’re with them. Nor is it true that sexual contact is incompatible with a couple in a troubled marriage. Perhaps it is one way they CAN still open up, be vulnerable or relate to each other. While it does seem illogical to encourage a couple struggling in their marriage to add children to the situation, this also sounds like a dangerous place for a friend of either spouse to be interfering. Perhaps a priest or professional counselor would be more appropriate.

 

[stbruno]

Go see Fireproof the movie this week and then see if you still don’t love your wife…

Most people say the words. for better or for worse, but really don’t mean it. Times are tough, things look greener on the other side, you miss the excitment and the tittilation of when you first were married, but there’s a message to be learned…go see Fireproof the movie…to see a preview link onto.

fireproofthemovie.com/

 

[dianaballein]

If this is not your marriage, but someone else’s, what role could you possibly think you have in offering an opinion on this? Do you imagine you know the deepest parts of these people’s hearts or their affection/animosity for each other?

No one can ever truly “know” another couple’s marriage~regardless of what you think you see/hear when you’re with them. Nor is it true that sexual contact is incompatible with a couple in a troubled marriage. Perhaps it is one way they CAN still open up, be vulnerable or relate to each other. While it does seem illogical to encourage a couple struggling in their marriage to add children to the situation, this also sounds like a dangerous place for a friend of either spouse to be interfering. Perhaps a priest or professional counselor would be more appropriate.

First of all, you don’t know this is not about me and maybe I wasn’t comfortable sharing that completely? As for your response, I am glad it wasn’t me…because there always seems to be one of two responders who respond angrily.

If you don’t like the topic or you don’t have anything helpful to add, you have the choice to NOT RESPOND…just like changing the channel on the TV if you don’t like what’s on.

You’re judgment of how much I know about my friends is not warranted, nor does it make one feel safe in a forum to inquire. Did this topic touch a personal nerve? If so, I apologize about that but as for all of the other posters who offered good, useful advice and guidance, I thank you.

I am very close to these people. I dare say I am pretty much their only friends. They have chosen to involve me in their lives because they do not have supportive family. They have talked to their Priest. My curiosity stemmed from seeing what the normal thought process was in this from their fellow Catholics. The fact that you chose to lash out at me is disturbing.

I will pray for you.

 

[dianaballein]

Go see Fireproof the movie this week and then see if you still don’t love your wife…

Most people say the words. for better or for worse, but really don’t mean it. Times are tough, things look greener on the other side, you miss the excitment and the tittilation of when you first were married, but there’s a message to be learned…go see Fireproof the movie…to see a preview link onto.

fireproofthemovie.com/

I will recommend that to them, thank you

 

[NTOT]

The subject line says it all.

Married couple. One child already that they were hoping would “heal” their marriage. The child has not healed them, in fact, even though the child is loved beyond measure, there is more stress in the marriage than ever before.

Thoughts?

No, a child being conceived as a result of the marital act within a valid marriage (the Church does not differentiate between happy and unhappy, only valid and invalid) can never be called a sin, nor can one use the excuse of being unhappy in order to abort ones child. It is illogical to say that the marital act when performed by two willing people who are validly married is not both unitive and procreative (unless the procreative aspect is frustrated). It would not be unitive if one party is coerced.

 

[rayne89]

So if you are in a married state, you can intentionally do mental harm to your child? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

I have witnessed children who remain in unhealthy unhappy marriages and so often, the parents are not providing the proper guidance and example and are setting these kids up for failure in their own marriages.

I have witnessed children who remain in unhealthy unhappy marriages and so often, the parents are not providing the proper guidance and example and these children have a strong healthy marriage because theyt learned from their parents mistakes. That would be my husband and myself. Honestly a sibling would have been a great gift to my husband, even if his parents were messed up at least they would have had each other. I had a sister but she died when I was 13. I wished I would have had a sibling through my teen years while my parents were so busy with their own issues.

That being said do I think it is wise to bring a baby into a situation where the marriage is very stressed -no. Do I think it is sinful, absolutely not.

 

[rayne89]

Newbie2;4241157:

I would wonder about the sex involved in the marriage; if they are no longer happily married, then it becomes more of an act of pleasure or of 'duty", if the purpose was solely to create a new baby.

QUOTE]

Ok, this brings up another point. The act of sex with someone you no longer love…how is that different from being violated?

Because they are married. Love is a choice by the way, not a warm fuzzy feeling. Unless one spouse is forcing the other into a sexual act then it’s not a violation. We really, really need to get these Hollywood and romance novel ideas of love out of peoples heads. If one wants to stay married for a lifetime then one has to chose to love even when one doesn’t feel like it.

 

[Island_Oak]

First of all, you don’t know this is not about me and maybe I wasn’t comfortable sharing that completely? As for your response, I am glad it wasn’t me…because there always seems to be one of two responders who respond angrily.

If you don’t like the topic or you don’t have anything helpful to add, you have the choice to NOT RESPOND…just like changing the channel on the TV if you don’t like what’s on.

You’re judgment of how much I know about my friends is not warranted, nor does it make one feel safe in a forum to inquire. Did this topic touch a personal nerve? If so, I apologize about that but as for all of the other posters who offered good, useful advice and guidance, I thank you.

I am very close to these people. I dare say I am pretty much their only friends. They have chosen to involve me in their lives because they do not have supportive family. They have talked to their Priest. My curiosity stemmed from seeing what the normal thought process was in this from their fellow Catholics. The fact that you chose to lash out at me is disturbing.

I will pray for you.

WOW…there was no anger in my post…just a caution to tread lightly when involving yourself in someone else’s marriage. I have seen friendships damaged by well-intentioned advice that offends one side of a couple or the other–particularly after the much-hoped for reconcilliation is achieved. Do as you wish…but if you ask for advice on an open forum, you just might receive some that doesn’t agree with what you want. It doesn’t mean there was any anger or ill will involved. Good luck wherever you fit in this puzzle.

 

[yellowbird]

Speaking from personal experience - we have 5 children. Some of them were conceived when we were really happy - some, not so much. But we’re in it for the long haul and know that “this too shall pass” regarding the bad times. I can say that I’m VERY thankful our marriage “mood” at the moment didn’t prevent us from having any our children. Sometimes I think they are the very BEST part of both of us.

I hope your friends are able to weather their storms. You mentioned they’ve had counseling? Sometimes I think all that hashing/rehashing doesn’t work. Sometimes I think people would just be better off realizing that this is the life they chose and they can either decide to live it happily - or miserable by fighting all the time. Sounds simplistic but it’s true IMO.

Bottom line - regardless of the state of their marriage - children are always a blessing. And I’ve heard of studies that show children are better off being raised in unhappy marriages, rather than with parents divorced.

 

[dianaballein]

I have witnessed children who remain in unhealthy unhappy marriages and so often, the parents are not providing the proper guidance and example and these children have a strong healthy marriage because theyt learned from their parents mistakes. That would be my husband and myself. Honestly a sibling would have been a great gift to my husband, even if his parents were messed up at least they would have had each other. I had a sister but she died when I was 13. I wished I would have had a sibling through my teen years while my parents were so busy with their own issues.

That being said do I think it is wise to bring a baby into a situation where the marriage is very stressed -no. Do I think it is sinful, absolutely not.

Oh I am so sorry about the loss of your sister.

God did bless you with the ability to learn from the mistakes of the parents. I know a couple of people who were able to do that. The rest were “followers”…it was easier for them to make excuses based in their childhoods to not be responsible or viable. They viewed verbal abuse as normalcy…and thought nothing of it to treat their spouses badly because that is all they knew. Kind of like the whole "battered wife "syndrome where these women stay and stay and stay.

You are a testament to what hard work and loving unconditionally will do. Loving unconditionally…I think this is necessary in a marriage in order for it to survive the hurdles and pitfalls that invariably come into play. That, and strong faith.

 

[Seatuck]

So if you are in a married state, you can intentionally do mental harm to your child? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

I have witnessed children who remain in unhealthy unhappy marriages and so often, the parents are not providing the proper guidance and example and are setting these kids up for failure in their own marriages.

There doesn’t seem to be any intent to do harm here. There just seems intent to create a child. Might not be prudent if there is no will to improve the marriage but not sinful.

Have they tried Retrouvaille? A lot of people do well with that when counseling has failed.