Is it a sin to not be a martyr?

[s_schmude]

I was just reading about St. Cornelius and St. Cyprian, regarding this very subject, which was a great controversy in the early Church…whether Christians who renounced the faith under torture could be readmitted to the Church. Both saints agreed that the mercy of God includes those who wavered in faith. And, ironically, both are martyrs.

 

[bilop]

I was just reading about St. Cornelius and St. Cyprian, regarding this very subject, which was a great controversy in the early Church…whether Christians who renounced the faith under torture could be readmitted to the Church. Both saints agreed that the mercy of God includes those who wavered in faith. And, ironically, both are martyrs.

I don’t think anyone is saying that those who commit apostacy under duress, can’t repent and be absolved through confession.

We’re just saying that it is a sin, and the coercion does not remove all sinfullness.

God Bless

 

[dianaballein]

As someone who has been sexually abused/assaulted on four seperate incidents in the past, I can honestly tell you that when the moment happens, it’s very hard to say what you will do. If it happened again, I don’t know what I would do. I say I would fight, but if threatened with a weapon or physically restrained, would I?

I don’t think for a moment that God counts the sin of rape as the victim’s. So I think it’s important for women to know that if they didn’t fight, they didn’t sin or do something wrong. There’s enough guilt that comes with sexual abuse, the last thing one needs to feel is that they failed God! I can’t think of a time when a woman needs God in her life more!

My two cents, of course.

Oh sweetie. I wish I could give you a hug!!!

 

[Wirraway]

I don’t think anyone is saying that those who commit apostacy under duress, can’t repent and be absolved through confession.

We’re just saying that it is a sin, and the coercion does not remove all sinfullness.

God Bless

what part of sin does coercion remove?

 

[LilyM]

what part of sin does coercion remove?

A mortal sin requires full consent - obviously coercion removes the ‘full consent’ element.

Which most likely means it is now a venial sin, bearing in mind that venial sins don’t require FULL consent. One can sin (venially) with mental states that fall short of full consent - negligence, recklessness, apathy or laziness, partial ignorance, lack of self-discipline and so on.

Or may possibly (but unlikely) mean it’s no sin at all. Depends on the circumstances.

 

[Waiting]

There are two ways of being a martyr – a red martyr who actually dies at someone’s hands for his faith, and a white martyr who lives a life of sacrifices done in the name of the Lord. Who can say which is more difficult – the onetime “YES” for the Lord, or the many yeses given under the daily grind and diffulties of life? We don’t necessarily want to be a martyr, red or white, but we can’t avoid being placed in situations which force us to choose whether to please or offend the Lord. I suspect we are all acquainted with many white martyrs, those self-sacrificing souls who willingly say those small “yeses” daily.

Ann

 

[Wirraway]

A mortal sin requires full consent - obviously coercion removes the ‘full consent’ element.

Which most likely means it is now a venial sin, bearing in mind that venial sins don’t require FULL consent. One can sin (venially) with mental states that fall short of full consent - negligence, recklessness, apathy or laziness, partial ignorance, lack of self-discipline and so on.

Or may possibly (but unlikely) mean it’s no sin at all. Depends on the circumstances.

thank you for the clear explanation.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

I think we will have to face the question in our own society sooner than any had imagined.

I pray for the graces to teach my children about Jesus enough for them to realize that Jesus loves them and so do I. And that I value Heaven and eternal life much more than our lives here on earth. And that we will all choose Christ…never to deny Him…if the time comes for us to be tested or persecuted in such a way.

 

[Wirraway]

I think we will have to face the question in our own society sooner than any had imagined…

its difficult to imagine the conditions in the USofA wherein martyrdom would be called for. which is fortunate, since I know myself well enough to know I am, without question, not martyr material.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

its difficult to imagine the conditions in the USofA wherein martyrdom would be called for. which is fortunate, since I know myself well enough to know I am, without question, not martyr material.

I hope for your sake that it won’t come to that, but I would get spiritually prepared for it.
We are coming into times of tribulation, and there is no reason to think that we will not be persecuted in such a way as martyrs. Why would it be only for those living in other countries to go through. We are so horrible in our sin. We are so horrible in our rejection of God. We do not deserve to get off easy while others in less sinful countries suffer so much. Remember that God is not just merciful, He is also Just.

 

[mdgspencer]

The Church teaches that no one is tempted beyond their power. If it came to it, God would give us the strength we needed to die then.
At the same time I won’t smugly say that I would not sin and fall if it came to the point of having a knife at my throat–but I hope and pray that I would not relent in my faith then.
It is more likely in the U.S. that we will face small martyrdoms, as in the case of pharmicists who are legally required to dispense abortion causing drugs–or face legal persecution under the law or dismissal from their jobs. I hope and pray then in such a case that I would not sin and relent in my faith then.
Perhaps under such pressure the sin of such denials would be lessened then. But I recall how the early Church dealt with those who apostasized under the threat of death. Christians were treated very roughly in the Roman Empire, were crucified, and were fed to animals in the Coliseum, and otherwise treated horribily. Those who denied their faith then were readmitted to the Church only after a long penance and a penance in public too, because of their denial of God. Such a rejection of Christ is not a small thing in any case.

 

[monorail]

Does martyrdom guarantee heaven?

What I mean is, if someone was going to kill me and my child unless I denied Jesus, and say I was in a state of mortal sin, or I thought my child might be … then what? If I didn’t renounce Jesus and got killed, would my child and I go to hell?

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Does martyrdom guarantee heaven?

What I mean is, if someone was going to kill me and my child unless I denied Jesus, and say I was in a state of mortal sin, or I thought my child might be … then what? If I didn’t renounce Jesus and got killed, would my child and I go to hell?

Ya know, that is an excellent question. I, of course, do not have the answer. I would pose that question to a good priest…like one of the ones on EWTN live shows. I would love to know the answer to it.
I imagine that dying for the Faith would erase the mortal sin, but I am not qualified to answer it.
If you ask the question of the priest, please post the answer here.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

The Church teaches that no one is tempted beyond their power. If it came to it, God would give us the strength we needed to die then.
At the same time I won’t smugly say that I would not sin and fall if it came to the point of having a knife at my throat–but I hope and pray that I would not relent in my faith then.
It is more likely in the U.S. that we will face small martyrdoms, as in the case of pharmicists who are legally required to dispense abortion causing drugs–or face legal persecution under the law or dismissal from their jobs. I hope and pray then in such a case that I would not sin and relent in my faith then.
Perhaps under such pressure the sin of such denials would be lessened then. But I recall how the early Church dealt with those who apostasized under the threat of death. Christians were treated very roughly in the Roman Empire, were crucified, and were fed to animals in the Coliseum, and otherwise treated horribily. Those who denied their faith then were readmitted to the Church only after a long penance and a penance in public too, because of their denial of God. Such a rejection of Christ is not a small thing in any case.

You make a very good point. In the case of pharmacists and others, there is already martyrdom to a lesser degree going on in this country already. Even men who have a vocation to the priesthood are being turned away for not being “liberal” enough. Meaning that they do not believe women should be priests, etc. Father Corapi talked about it on one of his shows. He said that he knew about it from personal experiences if I am not mistaken. I had a friend who was turned away because he didn’t see sin in shades of gray. He wasn’t politically correct enough. And then they wonder why there are so few vocations to the priesthood.

 

[bilop]

Does martyrdom guarantee heaven?

What I mean is, if someone was going to kill me and my child unless I denied Jesus, and say I was in a state of mortal sin, or I thought my child might be … then what? If I didn’t renounce Jesus and got killed, would my child and I go to hell?

Yes. Martyrs go directly to Heaven.

That is why the Holy Innocents are proclaimed Saints despite being unbaptized. (The Church teaching states we do not know the fate of unbaptized children who die with only original sin (no actual sin) on their souls).

Also note, no miracles are required for the declaration of the Sainthood of martyrs.

God Bless