Is it a sin to pray with Protestants?

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Who looks to Lady Gaga for catechism or thinks she’s a model Catholic?

That statement just doesn’t make any sense.

And you seem to be suggesting that Lady Gaga is somehow influencing Jharek’s posts, which frankly makes even less sense:eek::p:shrug:.

Edwin
What I meant by that, what I thought was clear, is that the media, pop stars, etc… tell us that being true to our faith is shameful. People like George Harrison and Lady Gaga tell us that they’re Catholic. That they grew up venerating the BVM. They tell us that we are supposed to do as Jesus would do…embrace all things modern (same sex unions, drugs, divorce, etc…) and that is what makes you a wonderful human being first and then a good Christian. Look at what happened to George Harrison…he went to India, wrote some weird letter to his parents saying he wasn’t in a cult and that Indian paganism brought him closer to the Sacred Heart. As years went on he condemned the Catholic church.

Anyway! Again…I don’t know how many times I need to say it to make it any clearer. Liberals programmed us to believe its okay to be church hoppers. Once someone disagrees and shows any sort of leaning towards traditionalism they are pummeled and called ignorant.
 
Anyway! Again…I don’t know how many times I need to say it to make it any clearer. Liberals programmed us to believe its okay to be church hoppers. Once someone disagrees and shows any sort of leaning towards traditionalism they are pummeled and called ignorant.
I don’t see anyone here promoting church hopping :confused:
 
[Here it is](
):

Now that I look at it again, it is not as bad as I remember, but it’s not a glowing endorsement, either.
Actually, he did not say anything negative about the EF. In fact, if anyone has the authority to do so, it would have been Cardinal Arinze, since at the time he was the Prefect for the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship. His job is to outline what the rules are. The Pope makes releases the EF. From that point forward, it becomes the responsibility of Cardinal Arinze and his successors, along with the Ecclesia Dei Commission to fill in the blanks to anything that the Holy Father may not have answered or questions that come up. Prefects always have the authority to speak for the Pontiff.

What I’m hearing from him is a stern critique of the nonsense that some priests bring to the mass, not a critique of the EF.

As to promoting it, that is not his job. Nor is he encouraged to do so. To do so, has the potential danger of being interpreted as if the Prefect wants the Extraordinary to be the Ordinary. That is something that the Prefect may never want, since it would be contrary to the wishes of the Pontiff. He must promote the Ordinary and protect the Extraordinary.
 
Unfortunately–or maybe fortunately–the truth is not limited to that which does not scare you.

Funny–that sounds exactly like the Protestant argument “if you can pray straight to God, why would you want to ask saints to pray for you?” By your logic Catholics shouldn’t pray in their homes; and if you take the point about the Mass and push it, you could have an argument against other forms of prayer, such as the Rosary, or the Liturgy of the Hours, or any of the many Catholic devotions. In short, it makes absolutely no sense to argue that because there is a most perfect way therefore no other way should ever be used. As St. Thomas Aquinas pointed out, God creates diverse grades of goodness in order to enhance the perfection of the whole:p.

Singing hymns in honor of the Blessed Trinity; reading Scripture publicly; praying for one another’s needs; these are all worthy things to do, aren’t they?

I see. Am I correct in thinking that Fr. Serpa has no official standing as a mouthpiece of the Magisterium beyond that which he shares with the many other Catholic priests in the world?

How would he reconcile his opinion with the explicit statements found in the “Principles and Norms on Ecumenism” issued by the Vatican, sects. 102-119. This, just to give one example and avoid lengthy quotation:

I note the rather sneaky “can” there. Under what circumstances? We all know that Catholics aren’t allowed to receive communion in Protestant churches. That’s not the issue here. And of course under certain circumstances going to a Protestant church could be sinful, or at least an occasion of sin. No dispute there either. But the Vatican’s official norms speak approvinglyof participation in the non-sacramental worship of other Christians. I note that Fr. Serpa gives absolutely no support for his position from the teaching of the Magisterium. It seems to be his own opinion, perhaps fueled by his high regard for the stricter policies in place before Vatican II. What evidence supports his claim that this is still the policy of the Church (bearing in mind that this is a matter of discipline and not doctrine, though of course, like all the Church’s disciplines, it’s rooted in doctrine)?
The issue here is that the statements by the Church after Vatican II, did not annul her teachings from before. They’re speaking about two different situations. Therefore, both statements remain enforce.

The earlier statement said that Catholics could not worship at a non-Catholic service. That has not changed. That rule remains. It has never been abrogated.

The later statement encourages Catholics to pray with non-Catholics. However, it is not encouraging Catholics to worship with non-Catholics. For Catholic theologians, there is a difference between the two. Praying with someone, even if it’s an act of worship, does not mean that this is the norm for this Catholic or for Catholics. This is done for very specific reasons, the most important one being Christian unity.

It becomes problematic when it becomes the norm for the individual. If you have a service every week at an Episcopal church and different Catholics assist in an effort to promote unity and if the Episcopalians reciprocate, then you have a valid ecumenical sharing.

If you have the same individual assisting every week, that individual has stepped onto a slippery slope. The later decree does not grant permission to make this a routine for the individual. It grants permission for the whole to have common prayer events, be it Liturgy of the Hours or some other form.

The whole would mean that Mr. X and his group pray with the Episcopalians this week. Mrs. Y and her group pray with the Baptists next week, etc. It does not mean that Mr. X and his group make it a routine or Mrs Y and her group.

There is no conflict between the earlier rule and what was added later. The rule remains the same. Catholics may not worship in a non-Catholic church, especially one that does not have a valid priesthood. Vatican II’s intent is to open the door for the possibility of special occasions, even frequent ones, with the purpose not of worshiping as a Protestant, but with the sole purpose of worshiping together as Christians.

There is a slippery slope here. The slope is that most Catholics are not educated well enough in theology and liturgy to know where the line is. At some point, they are no longer worshiping as Catholics, but as Protestants. When they attend such events, they should really be guided by a theologian or cleric who is very well versed on the rules, both earlier and later. They are not in conflict and the earlier has never been abrogated. The later has simply opened up the possibility for something that was never though of before, shared prayer, but not as the daily bread for Catholics. This is what Fr. Vincent is correctly explaining. The two statements are speaking about different things.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Your opinion would seem to conflict with that of Fr. Serpa, as I posted earlier:

To participate in a heretical worship service and especially a communion service can be sinful for a Catholic because such an act is an affirmation of what we believe to be untrue.

I guess Fr. Serpa and Cardinal Arinze are both “a little ridiculous”?
Nope, they’re not, because we agree on the principle at stake: Catholics must not imply with their actions that a Protestant service is equal to or equivalent with the Holy Mass. But even Fr. Serpa said that such participation “can be sinful.” Not is definitely sinful. Can be.

If we disagree at all, it merely seems to be on the way one should apply this principle, which is fine since the matter - as they’d acknowledge - does come down to prudential judgment.

By the way, have you read the replies of Brother JReducation in this thread? His position is articulate, principled, cautious, *and *precise and charitable. I recommend you read them for a more nuanced understanding of what is and is not okay for a Catholic to do in regard to praying with non-Catholics.
Actually, Henry VIII’s divorce was the origin of the Church of England. King Henry VIII had no problems theologically with the Catholic Church, he even had a great devotion to Mary, unlike the Protestants. He broke from the Pope because the Pope would not annul his marriage. No other reason.
I wasn’t referring to Henry VIII but to others like Thomas Cranmer. My point stands: he couldn’t have gotten away with it if there weren’t powerful people of Protestant sympathies in England already (mostly in the south and east). So while pointing out Henry VIII’s arrogance and hypocrisy is, I think, accurate, to snidely lay those characteristics of his on current members of the Church of England is academically sloppy and indefensible.
And no, he didn’t do it alone. All Catholic bishops, with one exception, went along with him.
Exactly. See what I mean? Their defiance is the root of the Church of England’s separation as much as Henry’s wanton determination to have a male heir.
No it’s not scandalous.

I sing in a choir. That is why I am there once a month. And I’m not soaking up anything as this is the Church I used to attend. I know very well what it’s about.

How can I be a witness? I’ll tell you.

People are marveling that I converted to Catholicism. In fact, one woman, who was baptized Catholic, and has sort of longed to go and at least try a mass, is interested in coming along with her husband (a baptized Catholic who doesn’t attend church at all), to try a Latin mass.

Yes, I am a witness by just the fact of my conversion. My friends are constantly asking me about Catholicism.

You don’t have to agree with me.

I asked my traditional priest and although he didn’t like it, he said the Church does not forbid it. He told me to pray about it and ask for an answer from God. That’s whose advice I’ll take.
:clapping:

Bravo! Well said.
A Catholic, great replies! I guess I am much too sarcastic to be taken seriously by the others. I’m just so confused as to how people get brainwashed into believing that protestantism is equal, or nearly equal, to Catholicism.
No Catholic on this thread has claimed this or believed this. You have unwittingly identified the source of your problem - you irrationally presume that to attend a Protestant service is to imply with one’s actions that Catholic Christianity and Protestant Christianity are equal.

But that is not so (unless it’s regular attendance); such an action simply does not imply that in the twenty-first century. Churches get visitors all the time.

And if it’s an ecumenical, multi-denominational service, then attendance especially does not signify denominational agreement.
You have Catholics out there that continually defend their stance on inter-religious prayer/worship services as being a good Christian. These same people both mock and deny the true teachings of our church.
False. I, for one, do not mock or deny any teaching of Christ’s Church on earth, the Catholic Church.
I said it before and I’ll say it again…there is absolutely nothing beneficial being offered to our spirits by attending these services.
It might be beneficial to the Protestants in the manner True Light described above.
Help me out with this. How does singing a hymn expressing fully orthodox doctrine and praising the Holy Trinity affirm what Catholics believe to be untrue? How does joining in prayer to God for one another’s needs affirm anything Catholics believe to be untrue?
It doesn’t. 😉
The later statement encourages Catholics to pray with non-Catholics. However, it is not encouraging Catholics to worship with non-Catholics. For Catholic theologians, there is a difference between the two. Praying with someone, even if it’s an act of worship, does not mean that this is the norm for this Catholic or for Catholics. This is done for very specific reasons, the most important one being Christian unity.

It becomes problematic when it becomes the norm for the individual.
Thank you, Brother, this is very helpful - especially the distinction drawn in the sentence I highlighted in bold.
 
Spouses in interdenominational marriages are encouraged to pray together so that the protestant will eventually convert to the true church. This is why the couple makes a promise to raise the children Catholic.
Hold on a moment… The “true” church? It is of my opinion that there isn’t just one denominational path to God. The bible clearly states what the path is, but doesn’t limit it to Catholicism. I am looking to come to Catholicism for my own reasons, but it makes me weary someone makes a comment like this. It makes me think that the person making it is judgmental. I don’t mean to jump down your throat on this, and maybe this isn’t the correct thread to discuss this in, but what makes the catholic church the true church? Also, why should we ever try and convince someone to come to a certain church if they already believe? I am married to a Protestant and she believes the same as any catholic (except for intercession from the saints which isn’t a prerequisite to God anyway). I would never try to convince her that her beliefs are wrong and that she should convert to another faith. The bible clearly states the path to God and many denominations share in that path, the rest is just left to strengthen our faith in different ways. I’m open to debate on this as I have an open mind and not upset by this post. I just question the posters wording.
 
Hold on a moment… The “true” church? It is of my opinion that there isn’t just one denominational path to God. The bible clearly states what the path is, but doesn’t limit it to Catholicism. I am looking to come to Catholicism for my own reasons, but it makes me weary someone makes a comment like this. It makes me think that the person making it is judgmental. I don’t mean to jump down your throat on this, and maybe this isn’t the correct thread to discuss this in, but what makes the catholic church the true church? Also, why should we ever try and convince someone to come to a certain church if they already believe? I am married to a Protestant and she believes the same as any catholic (except for intercession from the saints which isn’t a prerequisite to God anyway). I would never try to convince her that her beliefs are wrong and that she should convert to another faith. The bible clearly states the path to God and many denominations share in that path, the rest is just left to strengthen our faith in different ways. I’m open to debate on this as I have an open mind and not upset by this post. I just question the posters wording.
Brother, you are in the right place! Catholic Answers will answer all these questions, and I would be happy to do it in another thread. You can pretty much copy paste this to a new thread in the “Apologetics” sub-forum and you will get replies. I look forward to it, it will be a great learning opportunity and a great discussion for all.

As a starting point, let me just say that the one true faith is the Catholic Church and all others are false and mere caricatures of the truth. That is doctrine. Yes, this may be hard to swallow for now - but stick with us and it will make sense, and after a while you will understand why it makes sense and you will rejoice in it.

Again, please post this in the Apologetics sub-forum so we can get a real good discussion going. Maybe the title would be “Why is the CC the only one true faith?” or something like that. I hope to see you there so I can give you an answer along with others more knowledgeable.
 
Brother, you are in the right place! Catholic Answers will answer all these questions, and I would be happy to do it in another thread. You can pretty much copy paste this to a new thread in the “Apologetics” sub-forum and you will get replies. I look forward to it, it will be a great learning opportunity and a great discussion for all.

As a starting point, let me just say that the one true faith is the Catholic Church and all others are false and mere caricatures of the truth. That is doctrine. Yes, this may be hard to swallow for now - but stick with us and it will make sense, and after a while you will understand why it makes sense and you will rejoice in it.

Again, please post this in the Apologetics sub-forum so we can get a real good discussion going. Maybe the title would be “Why is the CC the only one true faith?” or something like that. I hope to see you there so I can give you an answer along with others more knowledgeable.
Good idea and advice taken! I respectfully disagree with you until you can prove otherwise! 😛 I look forward to seeing you on the other side.
 
I am a Catholic with no advanced training, but it seems to me that as long as we maintain common ground it is our duty to pray with and for anyone. Regardless of faith. As some have previously mentioned, the Our Father is a great start. Ask for the Holy Spirits guidance, mutual respect, honest and genuine dialogue and I think we can learn many things from each other that is pleasing to our God.
 
I attend Mass with my Catholic husband. I pray there. You have know way of knowing who is in the church you are attending on Sunday. You could be praying with people of any religion.
 
Not having read the previous twelve pages of posts, I’ll simply focus on the original question and a remark regarding another separate issue. First, I must say that when I read the title of this post for the first time, I thought it was a joke. Really now, a “sin to pray with Protestants”? Come on!! I am a six year convert to the Catholic faith, prior to that being a “born again” Protestant. Needless to say, I am head over heels in love with Catholicism. However, I am not so narrow-minded to think or believe that Catholic Christianity is the be-all and end-all to the fate of all humanity’s souls. On the contrary, Christians of all denominations should willingly and openly share in their devotion and adoration to their God, especially in prayer. I belong to an ecumenical men’s group called Christians in Commerce which meets once a week and includes Christian men of all sorts, including Baptists, Bible church, community churches, and so forth. Together we pray prayers of contrition, prayers of thankfulness, and prayers of petition. We are all brothers in Christ despite the fact that we attend different types of services on Sunday. That said, let me address one other issue mentioned in an earlier post—speaking in tongues. A number of men in my Christians in Commerce group have that “gift,” but I do not. Nonetheless, I have to recognize that speaking in tongues is, indeed, biblical. It is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and must be respected for that sole reason. We who do not have that particular gift should not minimize it in any way just because we can’t understand or interpret what’s being said. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.
 
I don’t think praying with a Protestant would generally be a problem because we are praying to the same God. However, when I pray I normally pray the Hail Mary and I cannot imagine any Protestant tolerating that. I would not put aside this prayer to placate a Protestant so we probably would not pray together.
 
I don’t think praying with a Protestant would generally be a problem because we are praying to the same God. However, when I pray I normally pray the Hail Mary and I cannot imagine any Protestant tolerating that. I would not put aside this prayer to placate a Protestant so we probably would not pray together.
You’d be surprised. I work in pro-life ministry. We do watches outside of abortuaries along with non-Catholics. The Catholics always say the rosary. The only Protestants who shy away from the rosary are the Fundamentalists. However, they are always very polite. Other Protestants pray right along.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The issue here is that the statements by the Church after Vatican II, did not annul her teachings from before. They’re speaking about two different situations. Therefore, both statements remain enforce.

The earlier statement said that Catholics could not worship at a non-Catholic service. That has not changed. That rule remains. It has never been abrogated.

The later statement encourages Catholics to pray with non-Catholics. However, it is not encouraging Catholics to worship with non-Catholics. For Catholic theologians, there is a difference between the two. Praying with someone, even if it’s an act of worship, does not mean that this is the norm for this Catholic or for Catholics. This is done for very specific reasons, the most important one being Christian unity.

It becomes problematic when it becomes the norm for the individual. If you have a service every week at an Episcopal church and different Catholics assist in an effort to promote unity and if the Episcopalians reciprocate, then you have a valid ecumenical sharing.

If you have the same individual assisting every week, that individual has stepped onto a slippery slope. The later decree does not grant permission to make this a routine for the individual. It grants permission for the whole to have common prayer events, be it Liturgy of the Hours or some other form.

The whole would mean that Mr. X and his group pray with the Episcopalians this week. Mrs. Y and her group pray with the Baptists next week, etc. It does not mean that Mr. X and his group make it a routine or Mrs Y and her group.

There is no conflict between the earlier rule and what was added later. The rule remains the same. Catholics may not worship in a non-Catholic church, especially one that does not have a valid priesthood. Vatican II’s intent is to open the door for the possibility of special occasions, even frequent ones, with the purpose not of worshiping as a Protestant, but with the sole purpose of worshiping together as Christians.

There is a slippery slope here. The slope is that most Catholics are not educated well enough in theology and liturgy to know where the line is. At some point, they are no longer worshiping as Catholics, but as Protestants. When they attend such events, they should really be guided by a theologian or cleric who is very well versed on the rules, both earlier and later. They are not in conflict and the earlier has never been abrogated. The later has simply opened up the possibility for something that was never though of before, shared prayer, but not as the daily bread for Catholics. This is what Fr. Vincent is correctly explaining. The two statements are speaking about different things.

I hope this helps.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
You have clearly explained why it should be avoided by the rank and file members of the faith. The Church no doubt recognized this many years ago when it forbade worship with protestants and others.

It is indeed a slippery slope and judging fgrom many of the responses on this and similar threads, many have already started slipping.
 
It is indeed a slippery slope and judging fgrom many of the responses on this and similar threads, many have already started slipping.
That’s a very uncharitable assumption to make especially of those who are in interfaith marriages. Something my parents managed, with Church approval, 55 years ago.

I would also suggest that attending an Anglican service with my wife a couple of times a year, after making sure that I have fulfilled my own obligation, hardly constitutes starting down a slippery slope.

Many folks have the spiritual maturity to use their own conscience on these matters. In charity you should be assuming the best, not the worst, of folks who feel compelled to pray with Protestants from time to time, most often for family reasons.
 
You have clearly explained why it should be avoided by the rank and file members of the faith. The Church no doubt recognized this many years ago when it forbade worship with protestants and others.

It is indeed a slippery slope and judging fgrom many of the responses on this and similar threads, many have already started slipping.
The Church does not want us to be so rigid that we never pray with Protestants or that we never attend a service for a special occasion. The Church wants us to know how to do it correctly so that it is possible, but it does not become our daily bread, but not become the forbidden fruit either.
That’s a very uncharitable assumption to make especially of those who are in interfaith marriages. Something my parents managed, with Church approval, 55 years ago.

I would also suggest that attending an Anglican service with my wife a couple of times a year, after making sure that I have fulfilled my own obligation, hardly constitutes starting down a slippery slope.

Many folks have the spiritual maturity to use their own conscience on these matters. In charity you should be assuming the best, not the worst, of folks who feel compelled to pray with Protestants from time to time, most often for family reasons.
I don’t see the rules barring praying with relatives or passively assisting at a service for family reasons. I’m Jewish. I attend every Bar Mitzvah in my family and temple with them on high holy days. It’s part of our family’s culture. I’ve been funerals, weddings and baptisms in Protestant Churches. Baptism is not a major issue, because we believe in one baptism. Those ecclesial communities that use the Trinitarian form have valid Baptism, such as the Episcopalian/Anglican, Lutheran, and several other Protestant traditions.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Why would you want to pray with prodestants paxvobus?
What prompted me to start this thread in the first place was the fact that about a month ago a Protestant relative who was raised Catholic came over for dinner and we said grace together (with the sign of the cross before and after, by the way).

I was wondering if I’d committed a sin by doing so.

Believe me, I’m not planning to go to a Protestant service.
 
I am going to a protestant service on sunday as it is a family child baptism there. Can`t say i look forward to it. But will observe and wish my cousin and her man well in raising up their child.

Participate is one thing, being polite and just be there for this occasion is another thing.
 
I am going to a protestant service on sunday as it is a family child baptism there. Can`t say i look forward to it. But will observe and wish my cousin and her man well in raising up their child.

Participate is one thing, being polite and just be there for this occasion is another thing.
Remember, if they baptize using water and the Trinitarian formula, it is the same sacrament. “We believe in one baptism.” That’s what we say in the Creed. Notice, it does not say that we believe in a Catholic baptism. There is no such thing. It either is or is not a baptism.

If this child is being baptized, it is an occasion for joy. The child is being washed of Original Sin. It is a real sacrament.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
What prompted me to start this thread in the first place was the fact that about a month ago a Protestant relative who was raised Catholic came over for dinner and we said grace together (with the sign of the cross before and after, by the way).

I was wondering if I’d committed a sin by doing so.
I hope the information in this thread has shown you that what you’ve just described is not in any way a sin but actually a good and spiritually beneficial thing.

Not all non-Catholics should be looked at the same. With Protestant Christians we share the same faith, the same Lord, the same baptism. Saying grace before meals when eating with a Protestant is a good thing.
I am going to a protestant service on sunday as it is a family child baptism there. Can`t say i look forward to it. But will observe and wish my cousin and her man well in raising up their child.
I think this is a perfect example of a case that pretty clearly falls on the side of what is acceptable and good.

And as JReducation said above, odds are this baptism is actually valid. So participating in the ceremony is certainly appropriate for a Catholic. It’s not like Protestant communion, which Catholics can’t receive lest we make it look like it’s the same thing. Valid Protestant baptisms actually are the same as Catholic baptisms, so there’s simply no reason not to participate as though what is happening is 100% valid.
 
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