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Fitswimmer
Guest
I think it is a terribly simplistic analysis of the culture to blame it’s entire downfall on the media.
I tend to take the opposite view, that the media reflects how society acts and what it values.
- Status
I tend to take the opposite view, that the media reflects how society acts and what it values.
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blessedtoo
Guest
No, Ed. I am saying that TV is not the primary cause, as you seem to assert over and over again in your posts. If you are the age you claim, and if you have been around as long as I have, then you must know that the disruption of “traditional” morality occurred long before TV caught on. When I was a youngin’, the most controversial program on TV was My Three Sons - controversial because it represented a widower raising sons without a woman in the household. Yet cussing and swearing were certainly present in my REAL life in the form of a large and passionate, east coast Italian family. My two older sisters, who were exposed to it in their REAL lives, dragged “bad” words home from high school and college campuses. Both sisters were introduced to the drug culture, the feminist movement, and the sexual revolution LONG BEFORE such things were represented on TV (but you could see it on the news!). And growing up with strict parents meant we were not allowed to watch anything more risque than the Flip Wilson Show. Yet all three of us went off the rails.
And how does that have anything to do with watching TV? How does watching a Jennifer Aniston movie lead to strip clubs and dope?
I am doing neither. The question posed in this thread was clear: Is it a sin to watch certain TV shows? It is not up to me, or you, or at this point, the Church, to pronounce on the networks fall line-up of “sinful” shows. A TV show, in itself, can’t be sinful. It may present the occasion of sin for some, it may involve sin on the part of the actors (porn), it may present sinful situations (even Bella did that) BUT on it’s own face, it can’t be sinful. When you begin speculating on how any Catholic manages his responses to TV, then you are moving into the area of judging people’s hearts, thoughts, and faith. If a Catholic is persuaded to fornicate by watching a Jennifer Aniston movie, then the problem is much deeper than TV viewing habits.
And here you have once again presumed to know what your fellow Catholics think while viewing TV. And from that, you make the jump into presuming that such viewing habits have the power to drag a Catholic into moral depravity. It just doesn’t follow, no matter how you spin it.
The most frustrating part of this “dialogue” is that I don’t disagree with you that TV is, for the most part, a cess pool of garbage, both morally and artistically. I would certainly wonder, to myself, why any Catholic would choose to watch some of the trash on MTV or VH1. I would probably question their taste before I would question or judge their moral stability. I don’t disagree that certain TV programs should be singled out if particularly offensive (Laura Ingrahm had a tirade against the disgusting Tila Tequila show on MTV) because the network execs should know that we are not all fools who will watch any piece of trash they throw onto the screen. BUT, if a Catholic needs ANYONE to tell them that a show like that is, at the very least, inappropriate, then they have troubles that run far deeper than what they are watching on TV. Let it also be said that all the attention, even if it’s negative, can help keep these programs running. As has been said many times before, even bad press is good press.
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edwest2
Guest
A look at television history from 1970 to date contradicts that. The media does not reflect, it creates. I doubt the average person woke up one day and decided they needed “shock jocks,” or comedians saying F every 10 seconds. Or partial nudity and profanity on network TV.
God bless,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
To blessedtoo:
The Church has every right to inform and guide, as a shepherd, it’s followers. In response to pornographic movies appearing in the 1930s, the Church created the Catholic Legion of Decency:
amazon.com/Cross-Cinema-National-Catholic-1933-1970/dp/0275941930/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212600141&sr=8-1
Read an excerpt from the book. This is not about me judging you or any Catholic, it is about the Church’s stance toward the motion picture, and later, television, and what the movies and TV should be and what they shouldn’t. All in accordance with Church teaching and with the goal of assisting Catholics and non-Catholics.
God bless,
Ed
The Church has every right to inform and guide, as a shepherd, it’s followers. In response to pornographic movies appearing in the 1930s, the Church created the Catholic Legion of Decency:
amazon.com/Cross-Cinema-National-Catholic-1933-1970/dp/0275941930/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212600141&sr=8-1
Read an excerpt from the book. This is not about me judging you or any Catholic, it is about the Church’s stance toward the motion picture, and later, television, and what the movies and TV should be and what they shouldn’t. All in accordance with Church teaching and with the goal of assisting Catholics and non-Catholics.
God bless,
Ed
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Fitswimmer
Guest
A look at real life history convinces me otherwise.
I agree with blessed2-I heard cursing off tv a LONG time before I heard it on TV. My cousin was into drugs and sleeping around while the most popular TV shows were the Brady Bunch and Little House. Ricky and Lucy were still sleeping in separate beds when the first of my parents friends divorced.
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edwest2
Guest
I understand that certain immoral behaviors occurred in the 1960s. I was there. However, Catholics need to understand that reverence toward God and a desire to live a holy life were more evident in Real Life at that time. The media showed only programming that was suitable for the entire family. At the end of the day, TV stations would sign off. They would show a sleek jet flying through the air while a man read a poem that ended with the words “…and touched the face of God.”
Even the government, via television and radio, reminded everyone of our Judeo-Christian heritage. That Godless Communism was the enemy.
In real life, people discouraged people from divorcing. I was told to stay away from illegal drugs by the nuns at school and why they were dangerous. I was told that “gutter language” was unacceptable. I was told that sex was part of marriage and only marriage. I saw the adults around me really trying to live Catholic lives and sure, they would stumble but they always tried to do better.
In my last year of high school, there was one guy who was trying to sell drugs and then a few people found out he was living with his girlfriend. It was a scandal. Today, few people give it a second thought. But he told me this, “It’s OK because I love her.” No one wanted to emulate him. Even as teenage Catholics, we understood that God’s commandments came first in our real lives. And marriage was meant to be a life-long committment.
Now, Christianity is the enemy. From Rosie O’Donnel warning against “radical Christianity.” From comedienne and (apparently) part-time Bible scholar Whoopi Goldberg explaining Leviticus to her audience. From comediens telling endless graphic sex jokes.
Here is a Papal address from 1936 defining the Church’s view of the motion picture and the necessary work of the Legion of Decency:
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11VIGIL.HTM
The current Bishops’ council has become inconsistent and too lenient about films.
In his recent trip to the United States, Pope Benedict made comments relevant to the issue:
“What does it mean to speak of child protection,” th pope asked, "when pornography and violence can be viewed in so many homes through media widely available today.
“He deplored the ‘crude manipulation of sexuality so prevalent today,’ saying that not only the church, but also families, teachers and the news media and entertainment industries have to take responsibility for ‘moral renewal.’”
Moral renewal. In real life and in the media.
God bless,
Ed
Even the government, via television and radio, reminded everyone of our Judeo-Christian heritage. That Godless Communism was the enemy.
In real life, people discouraged people from divorcing. I was told to stay away from illegal drugs by the nuns at school and why they were dangerous. I was told that “gutter language” was unacceptable. I was told that sex was part of marriage and only marriage. I saw the adults around me really trying to live Catholic lives and sure, they would stumble but they always tried to do better.
In my last year of high school, there was one guy who was trying to sell drugs and then a few people found out he was living with his girlfriend. It was a scandal. Today, few people give it a second thought. But he told me this, “It’s OK because I love her.” No one wanted to emulate him. Even as teenage Catholics, we understood that God’s commandments came first in our real lives. And marriage was meant to be a life-long committment.
Now, Christianity is the enemy. From Rosie O’Donnel warning against “radical Christianity.” From comedienne and (apparently) part-time Bible scholar Whoopi Goldberg explaining Leviticus to her audience. From comediens telling endless graphic sex jokes.
Here is a Papal address from 1936 defining the Church’s view of the motion picture and the necessary work of the Legion of Decency:
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P11VIGIL.HTM
The current Bishops’ council has become inconsistent and too lenient about films.
In his recent trip to the United States, Pope Benedict made comments relevant to the issue:
“What does it mean to speak of child protection,” th pope asked, "when pornography and violence can be viewed in so many homes through media widely available today.
“He deplored the ‘crude manipulation of sexuality so prevalent today,’ saying that not only the church, but also families, teachers and the news media and entertainment industries have to take responsibility for ‘moral renewal.’”
Moral renewal. In real life and in the media.
God bless,
Ed
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Gigglin4God
Guest
I say let your conscience be your guide and go from there. Yall might fine me very sinful but I am really anxious to see the debut of the new show that is coming on tomorrow, Thursday, called Swingtown. I can feel alot of you reading this and being like 
but I feel like if you are strong in your faith and that it wont sway you either way then you know. Go for it. And most importantly, It is between you and God. No one else. I am also an avid WWE wrestling fan and wont stop watching that either. I let God be the judge not anyone else.
but I feel like if you are strong in your faith and that it wont sway you either way then you know. Go for it. And most importantly, It is between you and God. No one else. I am also an avid WWE wrestling fan and wont stop watching that either. I let God be the judge not anyone else.
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goofyjim
Guest
Hear, hear. And I only watch Star Trek and still am told it is sinful. I think the greater sin lies in going around trying to determine whether someone else is sinning instead of being concerned about one’s self first.I say let your conscience be your guide and go from there. Yall might fine me very sinful but I am really anxious to see the debut of the new show that is coming on tomorrow, Thursday, called Swingtown. I can feel alot of you reading this and being like
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Gigglin4God
Guest
Oh my gosh… Can I come over and give you a hug???LOL Finally someone who I agree with on here… I think the problem with most Catholics is that they over-analyze things to the point that it isnt any fun to live and next thing you know you have people like me who is afraid of sneezing crooked because that too may be a sin. Then they have what I was told is called Scrupolocity addiction. It is almost like they have a fear of living because everything they do is a sin. I think that is alot of the Catholics problems. They just dont know how to relax and take it easy. That is the way I feel anyways.
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edwest2
Guest
Is avoiding sin fear of living? “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” That’s what the Bible tells us.
Just like a good father, the Lord wants to guide us on paths that are good. While growing up, my family had no end to the simple things we could do to enjoy ourselves: a trip to the park, playing a game. As Pope Bendict tells us: We all need to take some time for God in our lives.
To be authentically Catholic is to be in an authentic relationship with Jesus Christ. To encourage one another in holy living in a secular media climate.
Fun? I’ve got tons of great memories and all of them involved wholesome choices that were uplifting for me and those around me, not degrading, shameful or sinful.
Humbly,
Ed
Just like a good father, the Lord wants to guide us on paths that are good. While growing up, my family had no end to the simple things we could do to enjoy ourselves: a trip to the park, playing a game. As Pope Bendict tells us: We all need to take some time for God in our lives.
To be authentically Catholic is to be in an authentic relationship with Jesus Christ. To encourage one another in holy living in a secular media climate.
Fun? I’ve got tons of great memories and all of them involved wholesome choices that were uplifting for me and those around me, not degrading, shameful or sinful.
Humbly,
Ed
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Carthusianish
Guest
So we’re really just left with watching “the Waltons” or going to Hell?
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edwest2
Guest
You didn’t read any of my links, did you? I’ll rephrase:
Spend most of your time medidating on the ugly, the sordid, the dysfunctional and profane, and guess what?
Only one guess.
Ed
Spend most of your time medidating on the ugly, the sordid, the dysfunctional and profane, and guess what?
Only one guess.
Ed
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Fitswimmer
Guest
Your premise all along has been that the media was the cause of the decline in morality. My point was that morality was already decaying when TV was still showing programs like the Waltons and signing off at 3 am. Media changed in response to the change in culture.
The media is a business enterprise. They’re in it to make money and nothing more. If people’s appetites had continued to be satisfied by the Waltons, we’d be still seeing programs like that today.
It’s kind of funny, because in my house growing up the TV went off after Walter Cronkite every night and after Walt Disney on Sunday. Dad and I used to watch the Bugs Bunny/Road Runner show on Saturday mornings. Other than that-I didn’t see any shows that the other kids watched. During the school year, I did homework or read and during the summer I was outside until bedtime. Maybe if more parents did that these days people would grow up not needing to get so much of their entertainment from the TV.
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goofyjim
Guest
I saw one odd post that critiqued Star Trek. Can anyone in their right mind accuse this as a sinful show to watch? Simple answer. No.
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edwest2
Guest
In it to make money and nothing more? That is incorrect, and I would respectfully point out, an oversimplification of what the media is and does. Pick up the book The Creation of the Media by Pulitzer Prize winning author Paul Starr.
In a nutshell, the media slants everything, decides what will be reported and what will not and “invents,” in partnership with artists, intellectuals and social engineers, the ways people perceive themselves through language, dress and examples of social interaction. It defines what is “mainstream” and what is not. It is owned by a small number of powerful people who have ideological axes to grind and causes to support. People who own numerous television stations, radio stations and newspapers, want to not only “put out product” but associate with other powerful people in business and politics as well. It is documented that certain powerful business interests have received favorable and unfavorable treatment over the years, and that stories are killed due to outside pressure. It is an open secret that certain newspapers have a Leftist slant and so on…
I never said media is entirely to blame. What I am saying is that television in the 1960s would have never allowed, and the viewers would have never tolerated, the profoundly dysfunctional character template that represents most characters on most TV shows, including Family Guy, whose opening theme makes it a point to mock “those values on which we used to rely.”
I want to be clear. When I write about this, I’m talking to everyone. This is a serious problem that is affecting the spiritual and physical lives of everyone who watches. And by making some of these profoundly dysfunctional examples of “entertainment” available on the internet and cell phones, the Industry wants our addictive dependence on their programming to be ubiquitous. You are never without it.
But what are people accepting? It’s OK to watch partial nudity on TV? It’s OK to listen to endless profanity? That is what people are doing - “Oh, that’s not so bad.” Then it gets a little worse. “Oh, that’s not so bad.”
There was Zero partial nudity and profanity on network TV in the 1960s. None.
So - specifically - what kind of impact does TV have on the average Catholic? More than just a little. Definitely more than just a little.
Peace,
Ed
In a nutshell, the media slants everything, decides what will be reported and what will not and “invents,” in partnership with artists, intellectuals and social engineers, the ways people perceive themselves through language, dress and examples of social interaction. It defines what is “mainstream” and what is not. It is owned by a small number of powerful people who have ideological axes to grind and causes to support. People who own numerous television stations, radio stations and newspapers, want to not only “put out product” but associate with other powerful people in business and politics as well. It is documented that certain powerful business interests have received favorable and unfavorable treatment over the years, and that stories are killed due to outside pressure. It is an open secret that certain newspapers have a Leftist slant and so on…
I never said media is entirely to blame. What I am saying is that television in the 1960s would have never allowed, and the viewers would have never tolerated, the profoundly dysfunctional character template that represents most characters on most TV shows, including Family Guy, whose opening theme makes it a point to mock “those values on which we used to rely.”
I want to be clear. When I write about this, I’m talking to everyone. This is a serious problem that is affecting the spiritual and physical lives of everyone who watches. And by making some of these profoundly dysfunctional examples of “entertainment” available on the internet and cell phones, the Industry wants our addictive dependence on their programming to be ubiquitous. You are never without it.
But what are people accepting? It’s OK to watch partial nudity on TV? It’s OK to listen to endless profanity? That is what people are doing - “Oh, that’s not so bad.” Then it gets a little worse. “Oh, that’s not so bad.”
There was Zero partial nudity and profanity on network TV in the 1960s. None.
So - specifically - what kind of impact does TV have on the average Catholic? More than just a little. Definitely more than just a little.
Peace,
Ed
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goofyjim
Guest
None of this in Star Trek. That’s why it’s not sinful to watch it.
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edwest2
Guest
Having fun Jim? Just thought you’d drop in to minimize the importance of the problem?
Peace,
Ed
Peace,
Ed
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goofyjim
Guest
I have already expressed my agreement with those who don’t think it’s that important a problem. So answer me this. Do you find Star Trek to be a sinful show to watch?Having fun Jim? Just thought you’d drop in to minimize the importance of the problem?
Peace,
Ed
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goofyjim
Guest
No feel free to watch what you want. You are left in charge to discern whether you are sinning or not because only you can judge your heart. Noone else on these boards has the ability to do that.
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Katie1723
Guest
Methinks Edwest has an agenda. I think I’ll go watch some " Animal Planet"reruns
Kathy
Kathy
- Status