Is it acceptable to be a provider husband?

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My husband is a provider husband. I’ve worked part time on and off, but could never fully support myself due to chronic medical issues.

That being said, it should be a decision you make with your future wife. She may wish to work, or you may discover she needs to work, if at all possible, to help make ends meet for a time. You just never know where life will take you. 🙂
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
Oh yeah… I just clicked those links. I though I would point out that $36k a year as a carpenter is likely a non union carpenter or a union carpenter apprentice on the very low end of their apprenticeship. Like maybe only a year or less into their apprenticeship

It is the norm for a full on union carpenter journeyman (look it up) to make $45 a hour. That is A LOT more than 36k a year. $45x40 = $1800. $1800x52 weeks a year is $93600 and that is not including union “Vacation pay” which can be somewhere around a extra $4 a hour. That is a bit more than the $81k a year biochemist job advertised on indeed

And any union Carpenters on this site can vouch that I am not making this stuff up. I am a union construction Laborer. Dont let the title “Laborer” fool you though. It is skilled labor.
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Those amounts are consistent with what my step-father makes as a union carpenter. He made six figures as a foreman. My cousin’s first apprenticeship paid more than 36K. If someone is only making 36k, they’re probably working non-union jobs, or in an area where they aren’t getting enough jobs.
 
Allegra said:
Those amounts are consistent with what my step-father makes as a union carpenter. He made six figures as a foreman. My cousin’s first apprenticeship paid more than 36K. If someone is only making 36k, they’re probably working non-union jobs, or in an area where they aren’t getting enough jobs.
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Well the national average is pretty close to the 36 for union journeymen. 🤷
I’ve never met a well off carpenter. I’m met a few…
I’m sure they exist, but I would think the vast majority would seriously struggle to be the sole provider of a decent sized family…
Thanks to unions…
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Well the national average is pretty close to the 36 for union journeymen. 🤷
I’ve never met a well off carpenter. I’m met a few…
I’m sure they exist, but I would think the vast majority would seriously struggle to be the sole provider of a decent sized family…
Thanks to unions…
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Uhhh, you do realize there are different types of journeyman. You cannot simply say “Well, the national average is 36k for union journeyman” there are union carpenter journeymen, union construction laborer journeymen, union iron worker journeyman ect and we all make different pay. 36k is more like a first year union carpenter apprentice. You can insist it is not but I work in the industry. I am not making stuff up

Fine, you have never met a carpenter that was well off. I have met many. Thanks to unions. Who do you think would know better? You or someone who works in the industry?
 
Allegra said:
Those amounts are consistent with what my step-father makes as a union carpenter. He made six figures as a foreman. My cousin’s first apprenticeship paid more than 36K. If someone is only making 36k, they’re probably working non-union jobs, or in an area where they aren’t getting enough jobs.
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Nope, dont you know that someone who does not work in the industry says that it is more likely that your step dad makes 36k a year and is not well off, thanks to unions? 😃

I am a union construction laborer journeyman.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Well the national average is pretty close to the 36 for union journeymen. 🤷
I’ve never met a well off carpenter. I’m met a few…
I’m sure they exist, but I would think the vast majority would seriously struggle to be the sole provider of a decent sized family…
Thanks to unions…
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Around here, there is an obvious difference in pay for union jobs and non-union jobs, and it in favor of the union jobs. The union jobs also have good benefits whereas the non-union jobs often have none. I happen to know many well-off carpenters. Between the good pay, the benefits, vacation stamps, and the skills to invest sweat labor in their own homes, many live in 500K houses. The downside of construction is that certain areas simply don’t have enough growth and work to go around. My step-father was rarely out of work when I was growing up and often got overtime, but I suspect there is a much higher rate of couch warming in this economy.
 
Allegra said:
Around here, there is an obvious difference in pay for union jobs and non-union jobs, and it in favor of the union jobs. The union jobs also have good benefits whereas the non-union jobs often have none. I happen to know many well-off carpenters. Between the good pay, the benefits, vacation stamps, and the skills to invest sweat labor in their own homes, many live in 500K houses. The downside of construction is that certain areas simply don’t have enough growth and work to go around. My step-father was rarely out of work when I was growing up and often got overtime, but I suspect there is a much higher rate of couch warming in this economy.
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The General contractor on my last jobsite was a old carpenter journeyman. We got to talking one day before starting time and he told me he had something like 27 years in the carpenters union and he was never out of work. They were all good years. Granted, it is not like that for everyone but it happens. I suspect he is a very good worker so he was kept busy. The industry is booming in my area. Out of our 3000 something active journeyman, there was only about 90 on the out of work list last month.
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
Nope, dont you know that someone who does not work in the industry says that it is more likely that your step dad makes 36k a year and is not well off, thanks to unions? 😃

I am a union construction laborer journeyman.
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I realized I got a little “Insulty” there again (Yes, I realize that is not a word) My apologies Hoosier Daddy. I have a habit of getting sarcastic and a little insulting sometimes :o
 
LaughingBoy1503 said:
I realized I got a little “Insulty” there again (Yes, I realize that is not a word) My apologies Hoosier Daddy. I have a habit of getting sarcastic and a little insulting sometimes :o
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I notice you are quick to correct it and as someone with a sharp wit and tounge I understand.

Now, let’s have some fun…
Let’s talk earnings and unions.
I have worked for and with unions and am quite familiar with several ones.
But let’s play around with the NFL Union for a minute because we all know millionaires need protection from billionaires!
The minimum salary for a first year player is 450,000 for 2016. That is the least they can get paid.
The average salary for NFL players was 2,000,000. In 2013. So the average player makes 4 times league minimum. Now the highest paid NFL player in 2015 was some chap named Rodgers at 22,000,000 per year. Granted that is affected by allocations of bonuses but you get the idea. Big Ben actually out earned A A Ron because of endorsements. Which is odd because I discount double checked these numbers… So even the upper echelon of players feel the need to supplement their income. Not to mention we are talking pay for 17 weeks of work. ( I know I know, training camps mandatory practices blah blah blah.
Point being, when my son comes to me and says hey dad I joined a union and the average salary is 2 mil I will cringe a little. Unless you have Aaron Rogers skills in any position you are probably closer to the average… That’s why there is an average. I have several friends both current players and former ones. I’ve been in the room of contract negotiations.
Now the union line is to point out how these millionaires are getting hosed. Ok, personally I’d play for free… Probably would have made a couple plays too.😃
This analogy also serves another purpose. Not just that you should count on always earning more than the average, and not just that you probably have to supplement you income in creative ways, but also the physicality of the job. Construction is flat out brutal. And it’s a young mans game. With retirement age always edging up and pensions not being what they once were, it is something for someone who plans on being the sole provider should think about. Injury, fatigue and brutal hours and conditions can take away from he vocation of father and husband.
We live in a world that is governed by 2 income small families. 1 income larger families find it increasingly hard to find affordable housing, pay for education and yes, even buy food at Walmart. This isn’t your grandpa workforce or economy.
These days supplemental income is the reality for the vast majority of families with one main breadwinner. Be it a side business, investing in property, or working two jobs. It’s one thing to say you are going to be the provider husband as a single young man, it’s quite another to say it as a 50 year old with 6 kids heading off to college…
So, your youth helps, save as much in your early 20s as you can, no debt is one of the biggest pluses of a trade. And work your behind off so that when you sell a prospective wife on the idea of you as her sole lifeline financially you can deliver!
 
Allegra said:
Around here, there is an obvious difference in pay for union jobs and non-union jobs, and it in favor of the union jobs. The union jobs also have good benefits whereas the non-union jobs often have none. I happen to know many well-off carpenters. Between the good pay, the benefits, vacation stamps, and the skills to invest sweat labor in their own homes, many live in 500K houses. The downside of construction is that certain areas simply don’t have enough growth and work to go around. My step-father was rarely out of work when I was growing up and often got overtime, but I suspect there is a much higher rate of couch warming in this economy.
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Here is a heartbreaking thread from your neck of the woods. I’m familiar with Midwest economy and with the recent inability of unions to help those who need it.
I’d sure like to see the 500000 homes…
There are a lot of carpenters in Compton heights?
indeed.com/forum/job/carpenter/Why-dont-Union-Carpenters-Stand-together-make-change/t176513
 
I am curious for those in the know, what the union take is on undocumented workers as members? Is it allowed?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Here is a heartbreaking thread from your neck of the woods. I’m familiar with Midwest economy and with the recent inability of unions to help those who need it.
I’d sure like to see the 500000 homes…
There are a lot of carpenters in Compton heights?
indeed.com/forum/job/carpenter/Why-dont-Union-Carpenters-Stand-together-make-change/t176513
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I could show you the one I lived in for over a decade. Or the one my grandparents built. Or either of the two my step-father’s friend owns. My step-father has tons of friends in the industry and I’ve been to parties at many of their homes. I also know many of them that have wives that stay at home. I don’t know anything about Compton Heights as it’s not a part of town I frequent. I’m not sure why this lady thinks her husband’s inability to find a job is because of the union but it’s true that completing an apprenticeship does not guarantee a guy work.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I am curious for those in the know, what the union take is on undocumented workers as members? Is it allowed?
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Maybe you don’t realize this but not all unions are created equal. That would vary depending on the specific union I’m sure. I worked at a grocery store and we were unionized. It was horrible. Hated it. Would have opted out if I were allowed. My husband was unionized (construction) and my brother is unionized (rail road). Both have had very good results. Not all unions are wonderful but many are a true blessing.
 
bitterhope said:
Maybe you don’t realize this but not all unions are created equal. That would vary depending on the specific union I’m sure. I worked at a grocery store and we were unionized. It was horrible. Hated it. Would have opted out if I were allowed. My husband was unionized (construction) and my brother is unionized (rail road). Both have had very good results. Not all unions are wonderful but many are a true blessing.
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I realize that.
Do construction unions specifically carpenter ones, accept undocumented workers?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
I realize that.
Do construction unions specifically carpenter ones, accept undocumented workers?
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Why does that make a difference to you? I don’t know honestly. It’s never occurred to me to wonder about that. What would that matter anyway?
 
bitterhope said:
Why does that make a difference to you? I don’t know honestly. It’s never occurred to me to wonder about that. What would that matter anyway?
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Are you kidding that you don’t know why it would matter if a union was facilitating undocumented workers and how that would affect jobs and wages!?
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Are you kidding that you don’t know why it would matter if a union was facilitating undocumented workers and how that would affect jobs and wages!?
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To be honest, I get asked this question sometimes and I always answer “I do not know but I do not think so” the reason I really do not know is because It probably just flew over my head if they said you must have proof you can work legally in the states. I am sure they did say that but since I was born here in the states, I did not give it much thought I am sure.

I do not think the carpenters union would not care if someone is undocumented because the first thing that happens when you get dispatched to a new job from the union hall or you go out and hustle your own work is that the superintendent asks you for your drivers licence or ID and a social security card so he can make a copy and fax it to the office if the office is far away. If it is close to the jobsite, they might just ask you to drive to the office and give your ID and Social there. Why would the carpenters union send someone who cannot prove they can work legally? Even if the union did not care, a lot of companies would. Especially union companies. Lots of people think of unions as people who work in the same company. But in case someone reading this does not know, construction unions represent men and women in the industry who work in hundreds if not thousands of different companies. We do not all work for the same company but we are all from the same union.

Illegal immigrants have always found ways around the system though. Fake papers or whatever. According to records, I earned about $80 when I was a baby. How? My illegal birth father used my social security number (my moms side is Mexican American/Native American and my father was a illegal from Mexico). So I am sure some people have probably joined a construction union with fake papers. I bet a lot of the old timers probably joined back in the day without papers and probably are still here illegally to this day. but I am sure that the days of not asking for proof that you can work here legally is gone.

To join my union you must first be at least 18. Then…
  1. pass a drug test
  2. pass a physical endurance test for 3 days (Boot camp, and a lot of people cannot hang with the work. Bootcamp weeds these folks out)
  3. you absolutely must have a car or truck and a valid drivers licence because the union is not going to send you to a company if you cannot drive there. And saying your wife or mom will drop you off everyday will not cut it. They will not let you join.
  4. You must pass the interview. Then…
  5. Graduate the apprenticeship program which includes classroom schooling and on the job training.
A high school diploma is currently not required but they are thinking about making it a requirement in the near future. The way the industry is heading is that they want guys with a bit more brains. Some construction unions even require background checks but my union does not.

So, my guess is that “No” the union does not have a policy, secret or open, that they hire undocumented workers but some slip through the cracks. But I actually have a union meeting to go to tomorrow and if I can corner a union rep, I will ask and let you know, for sure for sure. I also start at a new jobsite tomorrow 🙂
 
Allegra said:
I could show you the one I lived in for over a decade. Or the one my grandparents built. Or either of the two my step-father’s friend owns. My step-father has tons of friends in the industry and I’ve been to parties at many of their homes. I also know many of them that have wives that stay at home. I don’t know anything about Compton Heights as it’s not a part of town I frequent. I’m not sure why this lady thinks her husband’s inability to find a job is because of the union but it’s true that completing an apprenticeship does not guarantee a guy work.
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So you know four carpenters in the Saint Louis area who have homes over 500,000!? And they did so in modern times on the sole wages the union gave them on one salary!?

I just don’t buy it. Sorry but I think in your zeal you overstated your case. I’ve posted the bottom and top ends and average of the job in question.
Now, out of curriosity I searched homes for sale 490,000 to 530,000 in Saint Louis. Any number of beds and any type of home. There were 7. 4 if you leave off condos. Certainly there are more homes of that value that are not on the market but as you can see, not many.
Now I understand part of the benifit of being a carpenter means you can build a house cheaply. But owning a 500000 home outright would be a rarity for even those who made 200000 a year. But let’s say it was paid off. It’s still averaging about 5000 tax money a year.
I have looked up carpenter jobs and I just don’t see it. Several for journeymen at roughly 45 a year.
You should read more of that thread it wasn’t just one ladies husband. Can’t find too many threads extolling the payday though. There was one 22 year old in St. Louis who said he had two kids and a boat but didn’t say much more than that. Looks like times are rough though. Plenty of people looking for work. It’s sad.
 
I can tell you that no, I really don’t care about anyone’s legal status in the US so no it doesn’t matter to me one little bit. It’s not something I really care about or wonder about. And every carpenter I have ever met has supported his family quite well as a sole provider. They’ve all been home owners. You seem quite obsessed about all this. Why is it that you are so obsessed with the income of carpenters and legal status of union workers?
 
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