Is it allowable to use NFP in order to have no child?

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Now is soooo not the time to be thinking about this! Focus on today, and working on making yourself into a person who would make a great spouse!
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I am not considering whether I will get married with a specific person, but am considering whether I will get married with a person (in other words, whether I will get married in the future or remain single for my whole life). I know that my mind may change in the future, and I don’t aim to make a fixed decision on this question now. But maybe it is good for me to consider on this question now.
 
Forbidden? Yes … but not necessarily in the same way adultery or murder is forbidden. The main document forbidding ABC is Humanae Vitae, issued by Pope Paul VI in 1968. It is accepted church teaching, but its teaching is not infallibly proclaimed. IOW, the pope issued an encyclical as prime teacher of the church, but did not issue it “From the Chair of Peter” as infallible; something every Catholic must obey as we must believe is, say the Assumption of Mary, an infallibly proclaimed teaching all Catholics are bound to believe.

This post, may generate some severe criticism. I am not telling you what to do, how to live, what to believe and/or follow. Humanae Vitae is a good teaching, following it will lead you along the right path, much of what Paul VI wrote about the effect of ABC has tragically come to pass. You must make up your own mind and follow the dictates of a properly informed conscience.
 
Yes, it is disallowed. It has a long history of being disallowed, centuries before 1968. There is also that bible passage featuring Onan that was seen as disallowing it as well.

Additional note: there are teachings that must be adhered to even if they are not in an ex cathedra statement by the pope. I don’t care to argue if “ABC” or some subset of “ABC” is one of them or not.
 
Joline said:
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somecanadian:
I think people who use it with the intent to avoid children from the moment of marriage to the end of marriage could be sinning because they have no desire for children period… but I’m not well versed enough to say that with certainty.
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I heard what you said but I know what you meant! As you’ve materially stated it you would likely be incorrect, one can enter into marriage intending never to have children.

These are Josephite marriages. As long as one intends to give one’s body to the other when asked that is sufficient reason to marry. Obviously if neither ask there will be no children.

The more subtle issue is if one doesn’t intend children but still wants legitimate sex now and then by using NFP for life.
I do not believe the Church has pronounced on this issue in any definitive way.

Strictly speaking it might be acceptable if one had a very good reason for occasionally requesting NFP sex. If one of the parties in this “Josephite Marriage” now and then early on needed a remedy for conscupiscence (instead of committing the sin of impurity) that may technically qualify.

Its probably best the Church doesn’t go into this subtle area too deeply and leave it to the couple and the Confessional for regulation.
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A permanent intention against children invalidates a marriage. I can see it being acceptable if the wife was diagnosed with a condition that would make pregnancy dangerous but not otherwise.
 
Except one of the things that make a marriage valid is openness to life. I’m not sure how one could enter a marriage with the clear intent never to have children and yet still be considered to not be sinning (as their obvious desire not to be open to life would put them in the position of having lied to the Church).

PS: I just got married. We had to both promise we were open to life. If we hadn’t been, we would have been lying as we took vows which would invalidate our vows and make us liars (which is sinful).
 
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He already did. 🙂 Despite health issues that could have prevented pregnancy, we were pregnant within weeks. Haha. God is good.

I REALLY expected it would take years and instead it took weeks!!! It’s pretty wild.
 
That’s awesome. He can really unexpectedly bless us now and then. Plus I think the doctors just don’t allow for grace when they tell us things.
 
Joline said:
(a) None living except Jesus and possibly Mary ever had a FULLY formed conscience.
It is the work of a lifetime.
(b) One does not sin when following a CERTAIN conscience even if incorrect.
Whether there is a different sin re the cause of that possible incorrectness is another matter very hard to determine and best left to God.
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{a] Not true: there are countless saints in our midst who live by the grace of God without sinning {converted sinners ALL}… these folks have a rightly informed conscience; not perfect’ but still RIGHTLY formed.

{b} {ME HERE} No, I think your incorrect. There ARE intrinsic evils; written on every heart; every mind; should one violate one of these; there exist sin; even possibly Mortal sin. … And if one is culpable in NOT having a correctly formed conscience; then THAT and the sin is still applicable.
 
It’s precisely because of an optimistic happy viewpoint that people don’t get into those situations, or get out of them fast.
 
Lara said:
It’s precisely because of an optimistic happy viewpoint that people don’t get into those situations, or get out of them fast.
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Could you please explain this? Are you trying to say that single mothers or others who find themselves in dire poverty are at fault because they lacked a happy, positive attitude or didn’t try hard enough to better themselves?

Or that they lacked an optimistic viewpoint and found themselves with too large of a family?

Do you think every single mom asks to be put in that situation? Sometimes people mess up royally, but sometimes terrible things happen beyond our control and it can be almost impossible to dig yourself out of it. Such people need our help and compassion.

Somecanadian shared a very traumatic experience she had in childhood, and I’m sorry, but your comment came across as very judgemental.

Perhaps you meant something different?
 
In my moms case my dad did something and was shipped to jail when I was 9. She didn’t have a choice.

My comment was more focused on those who seem to think food will magically appear so long as you trust God. She did. It didn’t work. We survived, yes, but we often went hungry and had a LOT of horrible moments.

Do I think people should avoid having children period? No. But I also think we need to know our limits and need to act with prudence. Sometimes it’s reasonable for a family to say: “We can’t afford more children.” And God bless them for doing that, IMHO.
 
I am so sorry you went through that. Trusting God doesn’t mean food will always magically appear on the table.

And I agree that people should use common sense about the number of children they should have. Not everyone can handle a very large family for many reasons.

Of course, sometimes God has different plans than we do.

But my comment above was referencing the idea that it’s easy, with the right attitude, to either prevent hardships or get out of them if they happen.

And we both know that is not as easy or simple as it seems.
 
someone429 said:
Hoping for a small family is not an impediment to marriage. But you should talk about your hopes with your prospective spouse so you know eachother’s dreams and ideas.
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The only way I know is to have a reason as Pope Pius XII said: “Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called “indications,” may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life”

Or marry someone that is sterile.
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It wasn’t a comment on somecanadian’s particular situation. It’s a comment on how you have to always stay optimistic, and that it’s not naive to be optimistic.

Also, we can’t assume that all single mothers and fathers need our compassion. Sometimes, they have a fatal character flaw that leads to their downfall. I know one single mother who is a total narcissist. She’s a good friend of mine, but I can see how it would have been difficult for her husband to handle living with her. But, as I said, we can’t know the particulars of the poster who told her story of poverty.
 
He already did. 🙂 Despite health issues that could have prevented pregnancy, we were pregnant within weeks. Haha. God is good.

I REALLY expected it would take years and instead it took weeks!!! It’s pretty wild.
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It seems that you are very happy because you are pregnant. I’m glad to hear that you are very happy. But I’m curious. Could you please tell me why you are very happy because you are pregnant?

I don’t dislike a baby, but also I don’t have a profound want of having a baby. So, I want to know why you are very happy because you are pregnant.
 
Joline said:
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PJM:
Reliance on our conscience IF it is not FULLY and CORRECTLY formed is the bling leading the BLIND
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That may be so but its also good to remember:
(a) None living except Jesus and possibly Mary ever had a FULLY formed conscience.
It is the work of a lifetime.
(b) One does not sin when following a CERTAIN conscience even if incorrect.
Whether there is a different sin re the cause of that possible incorrectness is another matter very hard to determine and best left to God.
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Let me also point out the error here.
There is a difference between objective sin and the culpability before God for that sin. A poorly formed conscience does not excuse the sinfulness of an action.

Seriously, this lame moral thinking is responsible for perhaps more evil than anything else.
 
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