Is it always prudent to do apologetics?

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I’ve been on a discussion going 5 days at least now! All the atheists and Protestant fundamentalists have combined forces against catholic position and its just me vs all of them! It started with science, then on to Galileo, soon it was infallibility, so-called contradictions with papal statements and also ecumenical statements, to accusations that the church is a roman institution, that the hierarchy of priests not in the Bible, now its apocrypha, and the wars of the Middle Ages. I’m so tired! But I feel as if I have to answer because the charges are so vicious and skewed against the church.

But I’m beginning to wonder as the discussion progresses if I’m just wasting time. They are all clearly anti-Catholics. They seem to be angry because I have an answer for everything, saying I’m dodging, especially about the bad things the popes and clergy have done now and in the Middle Ages, just because I distinguished when they act for the church from when they are individuals… It may also be pride that is keeping me engaged? I should just stop engaging them! I’m clearly not converting any of them or making them fairer to the church, its like I’m defending a criminal or something! Isn’t it God who converts? Are we supposed to respond to anything negative said about the church or just keep quiet even though we have an answer? What if its not making any improvements in the person? Just keep quiet and let them believe or tell lies about the church? I know its weak but I really hate being the hated one or the attacked one or the targeted one.
 
One_point said:
I’ve been on a discussion going 5 days at least now! All the atheists and Protestant fundamentalists have combined forces against catholic position and its just me vs all of them! It started with science, then on to Galileo, soon it was infallibility, so-called contradictions with papal statements and also ecumenical statements, to accusations that the church is a roman institution, that the hierarchy of priests not in the Bible, now its apocrypha, and the wars of the Middle Ages. I’m so tired! But I feel as if I have to answer because the charges are so vicious and skewed against the church.

But I’m beginning to wonder as the discussion progresses if I’m just wasting time. They are all clearly anti-Catholics. They seem to be angry because I have an answer for everything, saying I’m dodging, especially about the bad things the popes and clergy have done now and in the Middle Ages, just because I distinguished when they act for the church from when they are individuals… It may also be pride that is keeping me engaged? I should just stop engaging them! I’m clearly not converting any of them or making them fairer to the church, its like I’m defending a criminal or something! Isn’t it God who converts? Are we supposed to respond to anything negative said about the church or just keep quiet even though we have an answer? What if its not making any improvements in the person? Just keep quiet and let them believe or tell lies about the church? I know its weak but I really hate being the hated one or the attacked one or the targeted one.
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In situations like this that you mention, I’m reminded of Jesus teaching His followers and they aren’t buying any of it and they left. John 6:54-70 . Even standing in front of the font of all grace, God in the flesh, Jesus didn’t convince them. IMV, maybe the scariest passage in the bible, Jesus didn’t stop them from leaving. He let them go, and didn’t go after them.
 
It sounds like you have already tried to do what you can. I’ve gotten into matches like that, even with fallen-away Catholics in my own family! I don’t know how ugly your debates have gotten, but mine got REALLY ugly! I mean, my sister-in-law was calling the Pope names…the Church…names!

I, also, had a friend of long time. He has also said some REALLY bad things about the Church and Pope. You know, it got so bad, I likewise stopped my friendship with him. I refused to tolerate that kind of talk. We can disagree, but we have to be respectful!

I, like you, felt an OBLIGATION to defend my faith. It isn’t that I’m a good person, but it’s like somebody attacking your mother! However, some people do NOT want to change. I had tried for a long time trying to convince friends.

They are not going to change you, and you are not going to change them.

With people like you describe, if you want to continue, you might need to call a “truce” and agree to disagree. With one family member of mine (who had once gone to the seminary for 3 years but left to the Baptist faith and is now VEHEMENTLY anti-Catholic…he, and his wife, both!), it’s gotten so bad that we really don’t even speak to each other, in part due to things said about my faith.

I honestly probably wouldn’t have stayed in contact, anyway. We were never close, and after that, it was like the last nail in the coffin!

You seem to now be “spinning your wheels”. Why not save yourself some stress and move on to where you CAN make some kind of difference. Further, you are outnumbered. If you want to debate, they need to at least be fair and do it one-on-one! It’s not okay for them to gang up on you. That’s very bad group dynamics!

I don’t think it’s always prudent to do apologetics. Pick your battles!
 
It is interesting that fundamentalists and atheists have so much in common. Paraphrasing, I believe that it was Bishop Fulton Sheen who said that he wanted to belong to the Church that the entire world hated, as that was the mark of its truth.

Realistically, I would bail after inviting them to CAF - unless they are sissies, that is.
 
One_point said:
I’ve been on a discussion going 5 days at least now! All the atheists and Protestant fundamentalists have combined forces against catholic position and its just me vs all of them! It started with science, then on to Galileo, soon it was infallibility, so-called contradictions with papal statements and also ecumenical statements, to accusations that the church is a roman institution, that the hierarchy of priests not in the Bible, now its apocrypha, and the wars of the Middle Ages. I’m so tired! But I feel as if I have to answer because the charges are so vicious and skewed against the church.

But I’m beginning to wonder as the discussion progresses if I’m just wasting time. They are all clearly anti-Catholics. They seem to be angry because I have an answer for everything, saying I’m dodging, especially about the bad things the popes and clergy have done now and in the Middle Ages, just because I distinguished when they act for the church from when they are individuals… It may also be pride that is keeping me engaged? I should just stop engaging them! I’m clearly not converting any of them or making them fairer to the church, its like I’m defending a criminal or something! Isn’t it God who converts? Are we supposed to respond to anything negative said about the church or just keep quiet even though we have an answer? What if its not making any improvements in the person? Just keep quiet and let them believe or tell lies about the church? I know its weak but I really hate being the hated one or the attacked one or the targeted one.
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A total waste. You would do more good standing on the street corner handing out Holy Cards. They are " swarming " you, they do the same here but it isn’t as bad. Just forget about all that and get about living your livfe and doing good wherever you can. And keep up your spiritual life.

Linus2nd.
 
Yes, you are probably wasting your time.

It sounds like you have jumped into an online discussion board that is not well moderated and anti-Catholic. Yahoo perhaps?

I suggest that you save your sanity and your apologetics skills for someplace worthy of them like CAF, CCF, or DCF and relax.

As I’ve often said…If they want the truth about the Catholic faith, they know where to find us. 👍
 
If these people are experienced apologists who have gone up against competent Catholics before then you are casting your pearls before swine.

If they are ignorant protestants who have only ever heard the anti-Catholic rants, then you may be the very first person to explain the true Catholic position.

The trick is telling the difference. Experienced apologists of any faith are unlikely to admit that they’re experienced (good apologists of any faith prefer not to reveal the depth of their experience if they can avoid it). You can get hints - if the forum shows join dates and post counts then this gives you some quick clues. And, of course, browsing their previous posts will tell you if they have already heard what you have to say, at least on that forum. If they’ve engaged competent Catholics before then you are unlikely to get to them.

Of course, there are always lurkers. If the forum shows how many times the thread has been read, and that number is high relative to the age of the thread, you may have a large but hidden audience of poorly informed people who have not heard the Catholic position.
 
One_point said:
I’ve been on a discussion going 5 days at least now! All the atheists and Protestant fundamentalists have combined forces against catholic position and its just me vs all of them! It started with science, then on to Galileo, soon it was infallibility, so-called contradictions with papal statements and also ecumenical statements, to accusations that the church is a roman institution, that the hierarchy of priests not in the Bible, now its apocrypha, and the wars of the Middle Ages. I’m so tired! But I feel as if I have to answer because the charges are so vicious and skewed against the church.

But I’m beginning to wonder as the discussion progresses if I’m just wasting time. They are all clearly anti-Catholics. They seem to be angry because I have an answer for everything, saying I’m dodging, especially about the bad things the popes and clergy have done now and in the Middle Ages, just because I distinguished when they act for the church from when they are individuals… It may also be pride that is keeping me engaged? I should just stop engaging them! I’m clearly not converting any of them or making them fairer to the church, its like I’m defending a criminal or something! Isn’t it God who converts? Are we supposed to respond to anything negative said about the church or just keep quiet even though we have an answer? What if its not making any improvements in the person? Just keep quiet and let them believe or tell lies about the church? I know its weak but I really hate being the hated one or the attacked one or the targeted one.
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Never argue with a mug. That being said, you may be honing your skills on a hard rock. Is Christ happy with you? You are running the good race, and probably against the tide, and like Canute will not win. Does it matter? If you succeed in raising even one doubt or pricking the pride of even one fool then your time is not wasted. Good on you for trying and having the skills to hold your own for His sake.
Surely the warrior will be rewarded. Give em hell!
 
One_point said:
I’ve been on a discussion going 5 days at least now! All the atheists and Protestant fundamentalists have combined forces against catholic position and its just me vs all of them! It started with science, then on to Galileo, soon it was infallibility, so-called contradictions with papal statements and also ecumenical statements, to accusations that the church is a roman institution, that the hierarchy of priests not in the Bible, now its apocrypha, and the wars of the Middle Ages. I’m so tired! But I feel as if I have to answer because the charges are so vicious and skewed against the church.

But I’m beginning to wonder as the discussion progresses if I’m just wasting time. They are all clearly anti-Catholics. They seem to be angry because I have an answer for everything, saying I’m dodging, especially about the bad things the popes and clergy have done now and in the Middle Ages, just because I distinguished when they act for the church from when they are individuals… It may also be pride that is keeping me engaged? I should just stop engaging them! I’m clearly not converting any of them or making them fairer to the church, its like I’m defending a criminal or something! Isn’t it God who converts? Are we supposed to respond to anything negative said about the church or just keep quiet even though we have an answer? What if its not making any improvements in the person? Just keep quiet and let them believe or tell lies about the church? I know its weak but I really hate being the hated one or the attacked one or the targeted one.
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One point worth considering: there are always lurkers who are monitoring the discussion.

Sometimes we’re posting not for the person arguing with us directly but for the sake of those who remain silent but are more receptive.

That’s why I hate to leave a lie or half-truth unanswered and hanging out there forever in cyberspace.
 
I’ve found that relentlessly staying on topic can work better. At least in real life scenarios. There is such a thing that I’ve heard Jimmy Akin call “brainlock”, where a person gets themselves into a sort of rant/shock/fear that they aren’t able to digest any reason that you give them.

When people constantly duck your answers by moving on to different subjects they only do it because they see it as an escape. If you keep bringing them on target kindly there is more of a chance they will listen to you, if they continue excessively you can simply end the conversation.

If you are polite about it (you can be stern and polite, but plain polite is preferable) then this can have one of two effects:

They may later on recall how poorly they defended their position and question what they “should have said”, this may lead them to consider that they couldn’t have said anything better and that you were right. They might even still see you as approachable to talk about other things more respectively. The benefit of stopping them from blindly ranting is that they wont only remember those “brilliant” things that they said and might actually notice that they were being foolish by avoiding.

Or in worst case scenario, they let their team down and cut a bad figure for anybody listening who might have otherwise thought as they did, perhaps out of ignorance.

That is for the plainly argumentative types, though of course not everybody is like this. The people you’re talking with now might not be listening to a thing you say but at least somebody else who reads the conversation will notice this.

If its getting you down just duck out. If this is on the net maybe leave them some material (even from catholic answers) and tell them you are leaving, then do. You are still doing a service to God, I don’t doubt that the devil will try to burn us out.
 
“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”

Shake the dust off your feet and do something more productive with your time.
 
Well, I decided not to return to that site partly because I was busy and because I realized after a while that the further I stayed away the more peaceful I felt in my mind and heart . The site is a source of spiritual disturbance for me so I will not go back.

I also realize I may have been harsh in some of my remarks. I was asked what was most irrational amongst a set of world views and I said atheism is most irrational and another form of superstition because what they believe amounts to magic in my view. That the universe just came out of nowhere for no reason and without a cause or rational explanation just showed up like doves from a magician’s sleeve without explanation. I think such comments may have had something to do with the mob they formed with the fundamentalist Protestants who were on my side of the argument until one of them started bashing the church for believing that God made evolution instead of direct creation of six days and that the catholic God simply started the process and walked away and I told him the church does not teach any kind of evolution, just that God created everything whether that process of creation was evolution or something else we don’t say, and I said that the church teaches God is always involved even in the smallest creation like atom or spark or whatever and guides everything and makes everything to exist. Then he became angry and started a catholic bashing thing and the atheists became happy and took advantage and joined with him against me. They started posting links and quotes from anti-catholic websites, too many accusations for one person to answer. From Galileo, to inquisition, to infallibility, to infant baptism.

Next time I will not engage or I will be carefull with my words. Now I am praying for all of them that God may lead each one to truth in his own way and remove the darkness that prevents them from seeing or accepting truth. I think that is more effective than a debate.
 
I thought this thread was locked, I’m glad it’s going on. Thanks to those who sent private messages with quotes of encouragement and also guidance from popes John Paul II and Benedict.

I cannot imagine the courage of Christ, apostles and first Christians when they were against everyone in that time and so politically weak against strong forces! I am finding anonymous debates so difficult and loss of anonymous friendships so difficult with no direct harm to me or my reputation, can you imagine the courage of Christians in old Roman Empire? I cannot imagine it. I pray for them to help us to have same courage and holiness in modern battles, cannot compare to them or Daniel in Old Testament or the Maccabees or the prophet Elijah or queen Esther! Truly it is a miracle to stand alone against the tide.
 
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