Is it an issue for a Catholic to make items for Gay Mardi Gras?

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Elena321

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This may be obvious to some people but not to me.
I was asked to sew some (many) shorts for Gay Mardi Gras/Gay pride event as I do some sewing work.
This event is not like the Mardi Gras event in USA-this is specifically a gay pride event.
Is there any issue/sin for Catholic/Christians to commit to such work or is that not an issue because then the same thing could be said for a baker baking cakes for Gay wedding,or photographer,event organiser etc?

Can anyone (kindly!) advise please?

Thanks Elena
 
This is a business, or this is as a favor? Are the items specific to this event? Is there some reason that your making these items would be taken as endorsement of disordered behaviors between persons of the same sex rather than evidence that when it comes to clothing you deem acceptable, you will sell clothing to anyone without requiring the buyer to pass a morality test? For instance, are they asking you to do the sewing for free in return for recognizing you as a sponsor of the event?

For instance, let us say you make custom shorts as a business. Someone orders a certain number of customs shorts, something you’d usually make without any knowledge of where they were going, but with the rainbows all over them, you comment that those are unusual and the customer mentions in passing where the items are going to be worn. In that case, the morally-neutral item doesn’t magically become immoral. If it was OK to make if you did not know where it would be worn or who would be wearing it, it is still OK to make it if you find you’re making it for someone espousing some kind of immorality.

If, on the other hand, you’re being asked to make something that is morally repugnant quite apart from where it is going to be worn, because of the cut or what it depicts, such that you are being asked to make something you wouldn’t make for anybody, that is something else again.

I could not say what your situation is with regards to the legality of the matter, either. Keep in mind that when the government makes it illegal for you to refuse to do something, you are obviously not giving tacit approval by agreeing to do it as you would in a situation where you are free to back out if you are uncomfortable. For instance, if the President of a country were to choose to do something legal but immoral, the political people who chose to get themselves into a photo-op with him when he publicized it would be fairly seen as endorsing the act. His security detail, career government specialists in protecting public figures, would not. No one makes any assumptions about the political beliefs of a US President’s Secret Service detail, even though they are the only ones surrounding him who would literally take a bullet for him.

Finally, even participating in an event has some subtleties to it. For instance, there is an event called a “Slut Walk” in various cities around the world that are meant to give the message that it is not OK to sexually assault a woman because she wears immodest clothing. Usually, the women marching in these events make it a point to wear provocative clothing, but if a group of religious sisters were to march in such an event, they wouldn’t be marching in favor of immodest dress, provided they were modestly clothed themselves. They’d be marching against using immodest dress as an excuse to rape someone. In fact, their obvious rejection of immodest dress could serve as a very stark statement of the truth that modest dress is meant to honor the body of a person who has inherent dignity and against the falsehood that human dignity is earned by dressing a certain way or can be lost because someone fails to dress in a certain way.

Likewise, a parade having to do with gays might not be a march in favor of acting out on same-sex attraction. It could only be about opposing unjust discrimination because of real or perceived sexual orientation. Since the Church teaches that “every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard to be avoided” with respect to persons with homosexual tendencies, it would be moral for a Catholic to march in favor of just protections in employment, housing and so on for homosexual persons, since of course they all need a place to live and a way to make a living as much as anyone else.

I hope that helps.
 
This may be obvious to some people but not to me.
I was asked to sew some (many) shorts for Gay Mardi Gras/Gay pride event as I do some sewing work.
This event is not like the Mardi Gras event in USA-this is specifically a gay pride event.
Is there any issue/sin for Catholic/Christians to commit to such work or is that not an issue because then the same thing could be said for a baker baking cakes for Gay wedding,or photographer,event organiser etc?

Can anyone (kindly!) advise please?

Thanks Elena
Can you just politely decline?

They wish to take something connected to your faith, Mardi Gras, and profane it.
Before someone makes this a gay rights issue let me just point out that the secular heterosexual world does a far worse job of blaspheme on that day…
 
Thanks for your help and thoughtful response Easterjoy.

It’s a business and I would be paid for it.I don’t know the person so it’s not a favour etc.
I’m not in any affiliated with the event and there’s no exchange of sewing for being advertised as a sponsor of the event etc.

I guess the items are specific to this event as they are “latex short shorts”

How do I know what the line is for morally repugnant-I’m not trying to be crude but do you mean like if it had a photo of a penis on the outside or something?

I didn’t even consider that it might be illegal to not take the job:eek:
I guess because I was only asked for a quote,and other people would have been also asked for a quote,it shouldn’t be too much of an issue as they likely have a few options of seamstresses.
 
Can you just politely decline?

They wish to take something connected to your faith, Mardi Gras, and profane it.
Before someone makes this a gay rights issue let me just point out that the secular heterosexual world does a far worse job of blaspheme on that day…
This sounds about right. 🙂
 
This may be obvious to some people but not to me.
I was asked to sew some (many) shorts for Gay Mardi Gras/Gay pride event as I do some sewing work.
This event is not like the Mardi Gras event in USA-this is specifically a gay pride event.
Is there any issue/sin for Catholic/Christians to commit to such work or is that not an issue because then the same thing could be said for a baker baking cakes for Gay wedding,or photographer,event organiser etc?

Can anyone (kindly!) advise please?

Thanks Elena
Hi Elena, yes, I would not do it. It’s one thing to sew and sell clothing (Which is fine whether they are gay or not, or whether they wear them to such event, clothing is a basic need), but it’s another entirely to make them specifically for an event like that I think.

It also depends whether you run a business or do this on the side for people, because depending on certain laws and judging by the political climate, I would try and be careful about how you handle it too.

If you must, make them very modest shorts. 🙂

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
It’s a business and I would be paid for it.I don’t know the person so it’s not a favour etc.

I’m not in any affiliated with the event and there’s no exchange of sewing for being advertised as a sponsor of the event etc.

I guess the items are specific to this event as they are “latex short shorts”
😦 Your in a tough spot then I think.
How do I know what the line is for morally repugnant-I’m not trying to be crude but do you mean like if it had a photo of a penis on the outside or something?
Difficult to tell sometimes (Especially without an example, and even then it’s subjective), the example you gave would definitely cross the line and I think you would be well within your rights to refuse and if they tried to sue, to then fight something like that.
I didn’t even consider that it might be illegal to not take the job:eek:
Given the current political climate, it doesn’t look good unfortunately. 😦
I guess because I was only asked for a quote,and other people would have been also asked for a quote,it shouldn’t be too much of an issue as they likely have a few options of seamstresses.
If worst case scenario, id just try to make them as modest you can.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
but it’s another entirely to make them specifically for an event like that I think.
I shouldn’t say ‘make’ but rather ‘design’ is the word I’m looking for. As making and selling clothing is fine, regardless of whom it’s too or where they will wear them, but designing specific clothing is where it gets into murky waters I think, because some designs can lend to a cause.

And like above, If it were myself, and I had to, I would try to make them as modest as I could.

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I suppose anything that helps celebrate or encourage sin wouldn’t totally clear us from culpability. It’s not to the degree of say working in an abortion clinic. Why not just celebrate Mardi Gras and leave it at that? no one is going to exclude you. This is more about the lifestyle than Mardi Gras I’m with the other opinions on this, I’d find a way to decline in a polite and respectful way. Faith and God first
 
Any activity or paying job that puts filthy thoughts into ones head should be avioded. I see this has already happened.:eek:
 
When you say “latex short shorts” I assume they are talking about skin tight shorts that are intended to cover as little as possible. From what I’ve seen of Mardi Gras parades (of any stripe) those types of outfits are intended to incite lust in the viewers. We aren’t talking about athletic shorts that are tight for a functional reason, but rather clothing intentionally designed to incite sexual arousal. Personally I would think it is immoral to produce clothing like that regardless of the event or the sexual proclivities of the wearers.

Let’s take the homosexual component out of it. If asked to make outfits for a strip club would you feel it was morally nuteral or helping lead others to sin?
 
This reminds me of “Jacinta, before she died, said Our Lady had told her that certain fashions would be introduced that would greatly offend Our Lord” archive.org/stream/TheMessageOfOurLadyOfFatimaWithPicture/fatimaSelectionspic_djvu.txt

This is a business, and you have been given great advice above.

I would see how this is troubling. I don’t know if your clients want ‘modest shorts’ when they want ‘short shorts’ are going to be happy with you suggesting a more modest design but you can talk this over. You need to be upfront with what you are comfortable making. You can even suggest why, not so much the gay parade slant so much as ‘fit and coverage’. They can be cute shorts, and a fun color, but you don’t want them to be ill fitting.

Also if you decide that this is a job you do want to take on, and the client is okay with your design of a more coverage style shorts, you can wrap them up with prayer as you make them. My grandmother used the time while making me an afghan to take to college to pray for me and my future. She held it up and said, 'Each one of these triple crochets is a “Hail Mary”. ’ So that’s what I do when I make something or work for someone.

Everybody needs prayer.

I remember once that Fr. Groschel mentioned that Jesus and his father were “Tectons”. Carpenters that were construction workers, not so much fine cabinet makers. He said archeology shows that near Nazareth was a Pagan town that very likely Christ and his earthly father, good St. Joseph, probably helped construct. The very thought that Our Lord worked to build houses and other things for people who not only didn’t recognize Him, but didn’t even expect Him blows my mind.

You are in my prayers today, and I hope you let us know the outcome of your decision.🙂
 
This is a business, or this is as a favor? Are the items specific to this event? Is there some reason that your making these items would be taken as endorsement of disordered behaviors between persons of the same sex rather than evidence that when it comes to clothing you deem acceptable, you will sell clothing to anyone without requiring the buyer to pass a morality test? For instance, are they asking you to do the sewing for free in return for recognizing you as a sponsor of the event?

For instance, let us say you make custom shorts as a business. Someone orders a certain number of customs shorts, something you’d usually make without any knowledge of where they were going, but with the rainbows all over them, you comment that those are unusual and the customer mentions in passing where the items are going to be worn. In that case, the morally-neutral item doesn’t magically become immoral. If it was OK to make if you did not know where it would be worn or who would be wearing it, it is still OK to make it if you find you’re making it for someone espousing some kind of immorality.

If, on the other hand, you’re being asked to make something that is morally repugnant quite apart from where it is going to be worn, because of the cut or what it depicts, such that you are being asked to make something you wouldn’t make for anybody, that is something else again.

I could not say what your situation is with regards to the legality of the matter, either. Keep in mind that when the government makes it illegal for you to refuse to do something, you are obviously not giving tacit approval by agreeing to do it as you would in a situation where you are free to back out if you are uncomfortable. For instance, if the President of a country were to choose to do something legal but immoral, the political people who chose to get themselves into a photo-op with him when he publicized it would be fairly seen as endorsing the act. His security detail, career government specialists in protecting public figures, would not. No one makes any assumptions about the political beliefs of a US President’s Secret Service detail, even though they are the only ones surrounding him who would literally take a bullet for him.

Finally, even participating in an event has some subtleties to it. For instance, there is an event called a “Slut Walk” in various cities around the world that are meant to give the message that it is not OK to sexually assault a woman because she wears immodest clothing. Usually, the women marching in these events make it a point to wear provocative clothing, but if a group of religious sisters were to march in such an event, they wouldn’t be marching in favor of immodest dress, provided they were modestly clothed themselves. They’d be marching against using immodest dress as an excuse to rape someone. In fact, their obvious rejection of immodest dress could serve as a very stark statement of the truth that modest dress is meant to honor the body of a person who has inherent dignity and against the falsehood that human dignity is earned by dressing a certain way or can be lost because someone fails to dress in a certain way.

Likewise, a parade having to do with gays might not be a march in favor of acting out on same-sex attraction. It could only be about opposing unjust discrimination because of real or perceived sexual orientation. Since the Church teaches that “every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard to be avoided” with respect to persons with homosexual tendencies, it would be moral for a Catholic to march in favor of just protections in employment, housing and so on for homosexual persons, since of course they all need a place to live and a way to make a living as much as anyone else.

I hope that helps.
Well stated. Some really thoughtful and interesting points here regarding the ‘Slut Walk’ as well as other items.
 
I didn’t even consider that it might be illegal to not take the job:eek:
I guess because I was only asked for a quote,and other people would have been also asked for a quote,it shouldn’t be too much of an issue as they likely have a few options of seamstresses.
It most likely is illegal to refuse the work due to your faith. We live in very dark times. If you decide not to take it then you might want to not simply turn down the work and if you did you may not want to tell them why. It is always good to stand up for the faith but you have to make a prudential decision about how this effects you, your family and anyone you care for.

If you wanted to turn the work down without offering the true reason I’d consider simply ignoring the request for the quote. Don’t ever get back to them. Another tactic would be to offer a ridiculously high quote. You could also simply say you are too busy right now. There is actually a Protestant who worked out what I think is a pretty good set of tactics for escaping this dangerous situation which Christians now face.
 
Your question is whether you commit a sin by making the requested garment, and the answer to that is no.

You can take the job of not.
 
You may have a legitimate way out if you say you can’t provide a quote because you “don’t make those kinds of shorts” or something similarly vague.

If it is illegal to refuse (check!) then you can quote an exorbitant amount. If they take you up on it, donate the extra money to the poor or to a catholic cause.

Good luck!
 
“latex short shorts”
You shouldn’t be making those regardless of what they’re for. 😃

As to the question, I would also pass. Those events are… let’s call them depraved… and providing items specifically for them would border on material assistance. That’s how it appears to me, at least.
 
Would a clothing designer/maker give glory to God by making “Latex Short, Shorts” for people to wear in a parade? I think not.
 
This sounds about right. 🙂
yup. Agree with you and Hoosier

If one knowingly contributes their time and talent (and in this case earning treasure) to a group that mocks the faith, then that person is not being kind, no matter how much they gloss over it as just business. Just say “I"m booked right now”.
But posting history is a real thing, and as others have noted, just a couple of days ago the OP wondered if vulgar language was a big deal.
When one is enmeshed in popular culture one can expect to hit a roadblock if one professes to be Catholic, or any other Christian denomination.
I do realize that people like to come to CAF and stir up the practicing Catholics, and those people can put me on ignore. Given that the OP bothered to thank the lone person who agreed with their viewpoint, it says volumes. She has already made her decision. Same with the other foul language thread. People who said it was just peachy got thanks. So, no need for dissenters to respond because this is not a real query. It’s a poll I guess. 🤷

But I will continue to respond with: study the faith and seek a Spiritual Director to help unravel the secular notions of what is permissible and good that have seeped into one’s life.

Better to seek holiness in this life than to be sorely disappointed in the next.
As one poster said "How would making these pieces give glory to God? Is it a suitable thankful response to His gift and talents He has given?
:hmmm:
 
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