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Elena321
Guest
This isn’t the US Mardi Gras.
This is a gay specific event called Gay Mardi Gras/Gay pride march.
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This is a gay specific event called Gay Mardi Gras/Gay pride march.
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Elena321
Guest
Good point.
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Elena321
Guest
Thanks,I might do that.
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Elena321
Guest
I think I’ll politely state that I can’t do the job at this time.
I’m still not 100% sure how in general to view issues like this though and whether it would be a sin to accept a job like this in case it comes up in the future.
On one hand,it would seem that sewing these Shorts could be seen as supporting/encouraging/affirming the “agenda” of the Gay pride parade but then on the other hand I wonder is it my responsibility and am I overthinking it,being irrational or being like a “moral police”?
I wouldn’t really want to sew outfits for a stripper club so I guess a Gay Mardi Gras is a similar thing,but is it a sin for someone to do so?
Generally speaking,on a similar note,is it a sin for a Catholic to bake a cake (knowingly) for a gay couple who were having a wedding or be hired as the photographer,or a Catholic Bed and Breakfast owner to let a room to a Gay couple on their “honeymoon” (knowing they were gay that us)?
Thanks
I’m still not 100% sure how in general to view issues like this though and whether it would be a sin to accept a job like this in case it comes up in the future.
On one hand,it would seem that sewing these Shorts could be seen as supporting/encouraging/affirming the “agenda” of the Gay pride parade but then on the other hand I wonder is it my responsibility and am I overthinking it,being irrational or being like a “moral police”?
I wouldn’t really want to sew outfits for a stripper club so I guess a Gay Mardi Gras is a similar thing,but is it a sin for someone to do so?
Generally speaking,on a similar note,is it a sin for a Catholic to bake a cake (knowingly) for a gay couple who were having a wedding or be hired as the photographer,or a Catholic Bed and Breakfast owner to let a room to a Gay couple on their “honeymoon” (knowing they were gay that us)?
Thanks
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mommy_k
Guest
You can simply say…no. this is not complicated…No, I’m too busy, but thanks.
As a Catholic there are certain virtues that you should develop. Not justify the opposite of the virtue.
Sewing a garment is not a sin…the fruit of sewing these garments perhaps can be. .cursing is not a sin…the fruit of language like this can be. Baking a cake…same thing.
Also, in terms of meeting a nice catholic guy or friends. The above would repel. No one wants to be around a person especially a woman, that curses al constantly and sews immodest items for a gay parade. Is this the person you think God created you to be?
I think it’s common sense.
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josh987654321
Guest
Yes, it’s difficult because it depends somewhat on the situation and even then it’s subjective.
My basic rule of thumb would be, if I wouldn’t make X for anyone, regardless of who they were or where they were going, then I have the right to refuse.
As for the event itself, well, they could wear your clothing to whatever they wanted to and you would have no part of it. It’s when they want you to sew a rainbow flag with ‘marriage equality’ or something on it, where it would violate ones conscience. That’s where I guess the Latex Short Shorts may fall into it, as you wouldn’t normally make something like that whether they were heterosexual or homosexual or where they were going to be worn.
If you make appropriate under garments, a stripper would not buy them, and if they did, then it would not be on you if they were worn in a strip club.
It gets into murky waters, but as for the cake issue, I would be fine to sell them whatever cakes I make, but if they then wanted me to make a specialty cake with ‘marriage equality’ or two grooms on it, then I think I would be justified to refuse to do that, as it’s no longer about selling a cake, but forcing me to participate in a cause I disagree with.
A Photographer is a tougher issue, I wouldn’t want to do that for a wedding because it would mean trying to get romantic shots. So if it were a gay wedding, or a divorced and remarried one, or something like that, it wouldn’t feel right trying to get romantic shots of them like that. I have no idea how you would defend that in a court of law.
As for the Bed and Breakfast, difficult to tell too, depends on the situation I think. It’s fine to give a homosexual couple accommodation, people got to have a roof over their heads, but the honeymoon thing gets it into murky waters. Depends on the situation I believe.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
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Elena321
Guest
To be honest I think it was a bit uncalled for to mention " that curses constantly and sews immodest items…" when cursing has nothing to do with this thread.
I’m assuming you are referring to another thread where I asked “does it matter if you swear?”.
I didn’t suggest in that thread that I curse constantly and I far from curse constantly although I’m not suggesting that I never curse either.
It seems a bit uncalled for/not charitable.
Also,not that it’s relevant to this thread,but where I live it would be more likely for a guy/s to not like you because you wouldn’t sew garments for a gay parade as unfortunately political correctness is everywhere now and if you don’t support it, people automatically think someone is a bigot etc.
Also,single Catholic men under 40 are quite rare here as is very liberal society
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EasterJoy
Guest
It* is *complicated if “I’m too busy” is a lie. We cannot condone lying in order to get out of uncomfortable social situations.
It is not complicated, however, to say, “I’m thought about it, and I’d rather not.” If the person making the request asks why, it is OK for someone being asked for a favor to say, “You’re asking for a favor. I don’t have to offer reasons or make excuses for not doing it. I mean–really? I’m free to decide not to volunteer, and that’s what I’ve decided.” That communicates the message that you are not a doormat who feels she has to say “yes” to everyone who comes asking for her time, whether she wants to or not.
If this is a situation in which refusing because the item being made is for a gay pride event is illegal, then lying about it is not only unethical but also liable to subject the tailor to a lawsuit for unlawful discrimination. The reason in that case had better be a) able to pass legal muster and b) truly and honestly applicable to the situation.
I would, as a matter of fact, advise people not to make it a habit to make excuses for saying “no” when they were under no compulsion to say “yes.” Give reasons if you want to give those, sure: “I would have loved to, but I have a conflict. Be sure to ask me again next time, because I don’t want to discourage you from asking.” Also feel free to give yourself permission to say “no” without giving excuses that you are under no compulsion to give. When there is a reason you really do want to keep private, you will have established the zone of privacy necessary to keep your own counsel without raising a hundred red flags that you must be “hiding something.”
The person who makes herself an open book has a hard time even keeping her own secrets.
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EasterJoy
Guest
People who act the way their contemporaries act without a thought about whether or not the social situation would please God do not find if difficult to find someone who “wants to be around” them. If you think people, even Catholics, who use foul language kill all chance of a social life, I’m going to congratulate you about all the social situations you are staying out of, let’s just say that. There are a billion Catholics in the world, and finding groups here and there who have utterly unbridled tongues is not at all difficult, alas. Catholics have to be in the world, generally speaking, and there are many bad habits to be picked up there.
That is off-thread and has nothing necessary to do with the OP, so forgive me, OP.
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Elena321
Guest
Thanks Josh for your help and God Bless You too.
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mommy_k
Guest
I consider myself blessed that my friends, family and coworkers extend dignified actions and speech towards me…I have found that extending the same courtesy and dignity to people it is returned. The reverse is also true. It’s reciprocation.
The op’s reply to me is an example of a perceived slight and she now reciprocated… I replied with honesty, to show what type of picture she is painting of herself. To show the fruit of her actions is what can define sinfulness and define different circumstances in her life.
This is how it connects to the other threads… to post anything else, would have been a lie for me…then you could have given me your speech Easter joy. Not because of the subjective use of the word busy. I can be busy planning to watch tv.
However if this is the best self she can give to God, and is comfortable with it, then of course this is her business.
Imho, any constructive or honest opinion will just not be what she wants to hear or ready to examine in her walk. It will and has been taken as a negative…
I wish her peace with her decisions.
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Elena321
Guest
I’m not sure what it is that is causing you to misinterpret my posts.yup. Agree with you and Hoosier
If one knowingly contributes their time and talent (and in this case earning treasure) to a group that mocks the faith, then that person is not being kind, no matter how much they gloss over it as just business. Just say “I"m booked right now”.
But posting history is a real thing, and as others have noted, just a couple of days ago the OP wondered if vulgar language was a big deal.
When one is enmeshed in popular culture one can expect to hit a roadblock if one professes to be Catholic, or any other Christian denomination.
I do realize that people like to come to CAF and stir up the practicing Catholics, and those people can put me on ignore. Given that the OP bothered to thank the lone person who agreed with their viewpoint, it says volumes. She has already made her decision. Same with the other foul language thread. People who said it was just peachy got thanks. So, no need for dissenters to respond because this is not a real query. It’s a poll I guess.
But I will continue to respond with: study the faith and seek a Spiritual Director to help unravel the secular notions of what is permissible and good that have seeped into one’s life.
Better to seek holiness in this life than to be sorely disappointed in the next.
As one poster said "How would making these pieces give glory to God? Is it a suitable thankful response to His gift and talents He has given?
You seem to think my viewpoint is in favour of making the items for the Gay Mardi Gras when it isn’t.
To clarify,I was actually leaning towards not taking the job but wanted to make sure my decision was being made from a right place and wasn’t coming from irrationally or me misunderstanding etc.
You also stated that I thanked the lone person that “agreed with my viewpoint” however (without naming names) I had only thanked/responded to one person at that stage on this thread and I didn’t receive the impression at all that they were stating they were 100% in favour of doing the job.
Actually,I perceived their response to be thoughtful,intelligent,level headed,measured,well thought out,rational and kind and that’s why I thanked them.
On my thread about swearing,the person I thanked did not say they were in favour of swearing so I don’t know where the misinterpretation is coming from.
I think your reading into/putting too much weight on if someone receives a thankyou or response.
In reality though,there can be numerous reasons why a different comment hasn’t received a response yet -ranging from a lack of time or the OP might be contemplating upon what was written etc…
People ask questions on CAF for clarity etc.I would hate to think that some people might be afraid/put off from having the courage to ask due to fear of receiving a less than charitable response.
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Elena321
Guest
I did perceive it as a slight/uncharitable as it is inappropriate.
It is wrong to make assumptions about people.Due to my “does it matter if you swear” thread,you seemed to have formed an image of me as in your mind being a certain way-I don’t know if that image is based off people you have met in your own life or off people in the media etc-but either way it is at worst wrong,or at best premature,to then transfer that image onto someone else simply because they have asked a question about swearing.
From there,with that image in mind, you made an assumption that I was in favour of sewing the outfits for the “Gay parade” when I actually wasn’t.
I’m not sure what you mean by reciprocate.I just “matter of fact” stated
“To be honest I think it was a bit uncalled for to mention " that curses constantly and sews immodest items…” when cursing has nothing to do with this thread.
I’m assuming you are referring to another thread where I asked “does it matter if you swear?”.
I didn’t suggest in that thread that I curse constantly and I far from curse constantly although I’m not suggesting that I never curse either.
Constructive and honest opinions are always welcomed by me.I have received a lot of honest and constructive opinions on this thread.
It’s also about stating things kindly and charitably.
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mommy_k
Guest
Is it kind or charitable to use offensive graphic imagery in a post–or have someone read the most disturbing acronym for an obscenity on a Catholic forum?
To me it’s not…therefore your definition of charity is different then mine. Before accusing soneone of being uncharitable, perhaps you should examine how you brought about this directness. This directness is called a rebuke.
The opposite of repel is attract-- and you will attract similar kinds of people in your life with the behaviors you do, and the lines will continue to be blurred for you what is sinful or not. I am sure you will agree that this is the core issue. This is how the threads are linked.
You reap what you sow in all things…no pun intended.
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Elena321
Guest
Which graphic imagery?Do you mean the mention about the photo on the shorts?
If this is what you are referring to,then sorry but this reasoning makes no sense to me.
Surely you can recognise that there is difference between someone mentioning something like this to objectively get an understanding of what would be “crossing the moral line” regarding sewing “Mardi gras Shorts” versus someone posting something like that with intent to “provoke sexual feelings” (or whichever terms you would rather use).
They are vastly different…
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mommy_k
Guest
No they are not…sorry.
Do you mean the mention about the photo on the shorts?
If this is what you are referring to,then sorry but this reasoning makes no sense to me.
Surely you can recognise that there is difference between someone mentioning something like this to objectively get an understanding of what would be “crossing the moral line” regarding sewing “Mardi gras Shorts” versus someone posting something like that with intent to “provoke sexual feelings” (or whichever terms you would rather use).
They are vastly different…
Believe me when I say something can be obscene without provoking sexual feelings. An obscene thing is not pure,and holy…whether it’s an image or written or spoken word. It certainly is uncharitable to expose others to things like this.if you feel people are uncharitable in response toward you, perhaps you need to examine the catalyst.
It is not enough to live life asking if something is a sin or not when choosing a behavior.That for most people( except for someone with scruples) is a huge flag to know something is quite not right.
To live this way shows a mediocre attitude toward God. It is sweeping borderline behavior under a rug, and will continue to make you stumble…and wonder. Perhaps you avoided sin, but is that the best anyone can do? I don’t think so.we are called to be imitators of Christ.
I don’t say this to convict you, but to hopefully plant a seed.
God has chosen us to share in His holiness. He asks for us to seperate from all that is unholy, and unpure and to allow His holiness grow within us. After approaching things in this manner, not just wondering if something is a sin, and… then doing it because it’s technically not…you grow. Your character then becomes more in line with living a Catholic life.
You can read 1 Peter 1:15-16… if you doubt this.
I am also unsubscribing…
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Midwest88
Guest
It’s Gay Mardi Gras. If Gay Mardi Gras’ stated mission said the purpose of the parade was for employment and housing then marching would make sense. But it doesn’t.
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JanetF
Guest
Elena, I may be late to the party, but you could mention to the people asking you to make the garments that latex is very hard to work with and you’d rather not.
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Elena321
Guest
This sounds like a good idea as it’s true how hard it is to work with latex!
Do you sew too?
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