Is it best to attend dioscean sspx icksp or fssp?

[SlavesOfJesusandMary]

I was wondering if it is good to attend dioscean?

 

[Fauken]

FSSP and ICKSP are perfectly fine choices. I wouldn’t go to the SSPX though unless there was no other Mass in the area. They are most likely not listed on your diocese’s website.

 

[commenter]

1.) Actually the “diocesan” category includes FSSP, ICKSP. A “Diocesan” TLM is one offered in union with the bishop Ordinary, the local successor to the apostles.

Some diocesan Masses are offered by diocesan priests, by FSSP, Franciscans or other clergy. They may be in a diocesan parish (all parishes are diocesan) or a chapel somewhere, with permission.

2.) Other TLMs are offered by SSPX, SSPX Resistance, SSPV, and several other groups, some local, or worldwide.

The real choice is between #1 and #2.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Actually the “diocesan” category includes FSSP, ICKSP. A “Diocesan” TLM is one offered in union with the bishop Ordinary, the local successor to the apostles.

That’s not what’s generally understood by “diocesan TLM”. “Diocesan” in general refers to secular priests in parishes who are not members of a traditional order. These Masses are also sometime referred to as Motu Proprio Masses because they for the most part were made possible BY the Benedict XVI motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum”.

 

[commenter]

commenter:

Actually the “diocesan” category includes FSSP, ICKSP. A “Diocesan” TLM is one offered in union with the bishop Ordinary, the local successor to the apostles.

That’s not what’s generally understood by “diocesan TLM”. “Diocesan” in general refers to secular priests in parishes who are not members of a traditional order. These Masses are also sometime referred to as Motu Proprio Masses because they for the most part were made possible BY the Benedict XVI motu proprio “Summorum Pontificum”.

Is that distinction made in Summorum Pontificum, in terms of different TLMs?

 

[phil19034]

Generally, there is nothing wrong with a Diocesan Latin Mass.

However, SOMETIMES the following happens:

1. sometimes (though rarely) a priest is forced (or feels forced) to offer the Latin Mass by his bishop or parish. If the priest feels forced, it could negatively affect his outlook & view of the Latin Mass and/or Latin Mass community
2. sometimes in diocesan Latin Mass communities, the priest feels the community isn’t appreciative of what Father is doing for them. Praying the Latin Mass is not easy & requires A LOT of hard work for a priest to learn it on his own. Father might get frustrated if he’s learning how to pray the Latin Mass and doing the best he can without support or appreciation. So if you attend a Diocesan Latin Mass, be EXTREMELY thankful to Father, even if he only offers a Low Mass once a week. You have to keep in mind, that without diocesan & schola support, it’s difficult for a priest to offer more than a Low Mass.

However, both of these issues can be resolved with a grateful community. Thank Father regularly, make sure he knows his efforts are truly appreciated.

God Bless

 

[Crusader13]

I was wondering if it is good to attend dioscean?

Most people usually recommend the FSSP, as there are no issues with regards to their status with Rome.

The SSPX get a bad rap and are primarily viewed through a very negative lens because of the confusion that surrounds their relationship with the Vatican.

However, one can attend an SSPX parish, provided that the person’s reasons for attending are not done out of spite and contempt for the Papacy.

 

[SlavesOfJesusandMary]

There are no FSSP parishes near me sadly.

 

[Crusader13]

As is the case with many Catholics. If there is an SSPX parish in your area, you can attend if you wish.

From my understanding, there are no explicit or formal rules or prohibitions against attending an SSPX parish.

It seems that some Catholics, while not discouraging others from attending, choose not to attend themselves, because the issue is still pretty muddy.

 

[cjsm93]

Please avoid SSPX Masses if at all possible. It is a radical breakaway group that . . . operates very much like a cult. I spent ten years of my life associating with these people who left me emotionally damaged and without faith. It took me six years to come back to the Church. They portray themselves as holy people who want to preserve the Catholic tradition, but then they go out and behave in extremely uncharitable and un-Christian ways. Gossip and manipulation are two primary tools they use to suck you in. I could write a book about the inner workings of the group. It’s not what it appears to be. Please don’t make the same mistake that I did.

 

[StudentMI]

I think that’s an unfair characterization of every SSPX parish. The same could be said for many different local religious communities. I’m sorry for your experience but we have to be fair.

 

[Alexandria2020]

They portray themselves as holy people who want to preserve the Catholic tradition, but then they go out and behave in extremely uncharitable and un-Christian ways.

how is it among their congregations? how are the people served? are the people who usually attend SSPX dissatisfied with ordinary form?

 

[cjsm93]

My aunt was employed by their organization for 11 years. She associated with all the big shots of the group on a daily basis. I was also employed by one of the more influential families, who were deeply involved members of the SSPX; they traveled both nationally and internationally to give talks at various conventions and conferences. Consequently, I also had very frequent interaction with their priests, as well as other lay people who were deeply devoted to their cause. The men, in particular, have extremely primitive views about women, brazenly voicing their opinions on how the lesser of the sexes shouldn’t be able to vote or drive. Another odd characteristic that the majority of them seemed to share, was a blatant disregard for law enforcement. I am not exaggerating when I say that I don’t know a single member who didn’t have to make frequent trips to the local courthouse to plead their case and defend their reckless driving records. . . …

They also endangered their own children with this behavior under the pretense that all would be well, because their guardian angels would protect them. None of the kids get vaccinated; in the ten years I knew these individuals, not one of them took their kids to see a doctor, even when they were extremely ill. One of the kids temporarily lost her hearing due to an untreated ear infection.

They chiseled away at my self esteem, and everything I believed in order to mold me into what they hoped I would be. When I eventually built up the strength to resist so many years later, they discarded me as unimportant, and made slanderous remarks about my entire family.

This was not an isolated incident. I wasn’t associating with just a few sour grapes; the dozens of people I knew were all sour, bitter, and emotionally manipulative and abusive. I think I made a very fair characterization of the SSPX. If anything, it was too fair.

 

[Anicette]

) Actually the “diocesan” category includes FSSP, ICKSP. A “Diocesan” TLM is one offered in union with the bishop Ordinary, the local successor to the apostles.

No. A diocesan mass is offered by a priest of the diocese at the initiative and in obediance to his bishop…
FSSP and ICKSP are priest fraternities that are apart from the diocese. The priests are submit to their fraternity, not to the ordinary/local bishops. The fraternity is invited by the bishop to celebrate mass.

SSPX is another fraternity by her status is less regular canonically. They are also more “rebel” to roman authority.

 

[Alexandria2020]

None of the kids get vaccinated;

explains why at the SSPX parish near me, they got into trouble with law enforcement around April this year. They were probably the only ones still open at that time and offering public masses. I guess they would never take a COVID vaccine whenever it becomes available.

 

[Alexandria2020]

FSSP and ICKSP are priest fraternities that are apart from the diocese

actually in my nearby Latin Rite archdiocese - the FSSP are under the authority of the Archbishop. In fact our archdiocese website lists the FSSP parish and the FSSP priests. this FSSP parish was opened in 2018 due to the Archbishop, he welcomed them into the archdiocese. So the FSSP are under the authority of their local bishop.

I’m sure this submission to authority is one of the traits that makes them different from the SSPX.

“Fr Carl Gismondi, FSSP explains the process for inviting the FSSP to start saying the Latin mass in your diocese.”

 

[commenter]

In popular culture, people informally refer to “Jesuit parishes” or “Franciscan confessions” etc but really there are no Jesuit or FSSP parishes. They are diocesan.

Our local Jesuit pastor regularly prints in the bulletin how much the parish is assessed by the diocese to support their operations. Policies about when and how to reopen (Covid) are those of the diocese, as with all parishes. Same would be true with FSSP. SSPX would be totally different, totally separate.

The original post was not about “What clergy do you like better?” but about TLM Masses. Are the Masses different? Which parts?

 

[Anicette]

the FSSP are under the authority of the Archbishop. In fact our archdiocese website lists the FSSP parish and the FSSP priests.

The FSSP is a society that is present in many part of the world. The whole society is not territorially under the authority of one local bishop- yours. I know that it is not what you want to mean, but it how you have written it.
What you mean is that the bishop invited the society to sent him one or more priest to celebrated a TLM mass/animated a local community (a parish). The priests have to respected the agreement concluded between their community and the diocese, but they are not directly under the authority of the bishop- but their superior. It is probably not the bishop who choose the priests who are sent, but the superior of the FSSP community.

That’s why the archidiocese list the FSSP parish: to let the people know their mass is “legal” and approved by the diocese, so faithfull people can go to it in peace.

The original post was not about “What clergy do you like better?” but about TLM Masses . Are the Masses different? Which parts?

Very superficial thing, but the ICKSP masses stand because the altar servers wear a blue vestment under their surplices. It what is called the “blue of the ICKSP” by some. People are entitled to their opinion.

 

[commenter]

The priests have to respected the agreement concluded between their community and the diocese, but they are not directly under the authority of the bishop- but their superior.

The individual priests are under their superior (not the bishop) in terms of personal spirituality, and internal community. If FSSP has a seminary in your diocese, or retreat center for FSSP priests, the local ordinary has very little oversight. Not public ministry.

A parish is mostly public ministry. The
lay persons in a FSSP staffed parish are ultimately under the bishop, not the superior. Public Masses are Public ministry.

SSPX is separate. When Covid broke out in USA, policies about masses, opening/closing, or what conditions for Masses if remaining open, were made by the USA superior, not local ordinary. I don’t know if individual laity were affected by the ordinary in terms of worship.

 

[TheMortenBay]

I think I made a very fair characterization of the SSPX. If anything, it was too fair.

I’m sure your think you made a fair assessment of your SSPX parish, but anti-feminism and anti semitism are not part of the SSPX. I’ve also only met very few anti-vaxers at SSPX in Europe. So it’s not to diminish your experience that I say you are generalising a lot about a lot of people and priests you don’t know.