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1voice
Guest
I never implied that he wasnt
Form/rules minus peace/ love…
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CopticChristian
Guest
I never suggested you did not. Was there some event in particular that caused your egress?
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1voice
Guest
No particular event. Just a long slow buildup of frustration with lifeless wrote religious patterns that repeated over and over. Life in those years was just a matter of going through ingrained religious motions minus joy. Minus peace. Minus … life.
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Roy5
Guest
1Voice
Code:
Your testimony is interesting, the experience of many Catholics, I have discovered. Many stay with the Church because of deep emotional ties, family ties, simpler to remain Catholic, etc., but they find little in the weekly Mass that seems to them more form than substance. Repetitious liturgy that cane seem empty. Millions drift away, often from religion entirely, but many to various expressions of Protestantism. Some crave a freedom to think 'outside the box' without feeling constraints of a hierarchy (that is where i have had a major problem). Others become fundamentalost Protestants who seem to replace one restrictive authority for another.
On the other hand, there are others (I also have discovered) who have a particular love and reverence for the Mass. "Different strokes for different folks."
Over the years, I have come to believe that God respects all humans who sincerely seek to worship him, who stand in awe before the Lord's magnificent creation, and who try their best to live by the precepts taught in the Sermon on the Mount. As for doctrine and liturgy, if they promote this form of faith, fine. People should embrace whatever faith helps provide them with assurance, peace, intellectual integrity, and especially love for God and one another.
God bless all of those who seek to follow him, whatever their creed, color, culture or country,
W
Waiting
Guest
It seems to me that you never formed a friendship with God. You kept Him at a distance, and like anything that is a ways off, it eventually just means nothing. I can tell you that the Lord is my closest friend. If I have a need, I turn to Him. If something good, no matter how small, comes my way, I thank Him. Can’t say how many times a day I tell Him I love Him. I am truly very grateful for His love and friendship. I am continually amazed at how much He yearns to be a part of my life. If I entered the ‘dark night of the soul’ and felt no contact with God, it would be unbearable. I rely on knowing He’s right there with me. Have you talked to Him lately? It’s never too late. His love for you is as strong as for any of His children. Being God – being perfect – He can have no favorites. Why punish yourself by staying away?
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1voice
Guest
I have a large extended Catholic family. I respect their expression of faith and love them dearly.
I am right at home when I am with Charismatic Catholics. The worship. The open expressions of joy … The hunger for the depth of God’s love and peace that really does pass understanding… especially in todays environment. The free expression of the gifts described in the New Testament… This is the Christ that I so craved and never knew how to begin to approach in those years.
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1voice
Guest
God bless you for your concern.
I have found what you describe. I briefly point to that in the post above.
I just never found it in the monotony of religious patterns that just seemed to drone on for year after year…
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Waiting
Guest
But the religious pattern that you mention is the Mass. The Mass is our offering bread and wine and ourselves to the Lord, and His changing the bread and wine into Himself and giving Himself to us. How can that ever become humdrum? I think we tend to forget what is really happening at the Mass. It’s a wonderful miracle, and it’s ours for the asking.
God bless.
P
Peace_of_cake
Guest
Sorry, haven’t been keeping up with any of this, but couldn’t resist this soundbite:
Is it easier to be Protestant or Catholic?
Relative to ones eternal soul then Catholics have it easy
Is it easier to be Protestant or Catholic?
Relative to ones eternal soul then Catholics have it easy
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Akini
Guest
It is very easy to be a protestant than a catholic. Christ once said that the road to hell is wider and the road to life is narrower. It is very obvious that that road which leads to hell is protestantism. Their teachings are too fragmented, shallow and based on human feelings. Catholicism is stricter and her teachings are based on devine truth. Those people who leave the church do it because they can not cope up with the demands of divine truth.
Genuine catholics always die smiling, whereas protestants die with gloomy faces.
Genuine catholics always die smiling, whereas protestants die with gloomy faces.
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Roy5
Guest
Akini
Code:
Sounds like you judge people from the standpoint of religious bigotry alone. Do you have even a smidgen of evidence that Catholics die with a smile on their faces while Protestants die with gloomy faces? Wild assertion! I've had relatives of both expressions of the Christian faith and they all seemed to face death with assurance.
I'm quite sure that people who are devout believers in God - Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox - are blessed in the world to come. The love of God extends to them all, and even beyond them.
Why don't we agree to avoid such prejudice based on a form of irrational tribal loyalty rather than any proof?
God bless Catholics, Protestants, and all of his beloved children, whatever their creed, color, culture or country.
J
jimmy19880
Guest
These days I’m not in myself.Who can give some encourage to me?I became interested in the game of WOW.For World of Warcraft players can not only enjoy some fun from the game, more of which can realize some truth.I want to buy cheap wow gold.But some partners gave me some places where can Buy RS Gold or Maple Story Mesos.Also,I found some websites that can easily buy aion kinah.Hundreds of players realize the philosophy of life in this wonderful game.Do you agree with me?
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2012 TRX500FM FOREMAN.
3RD HEADLIGHT MOD
REAR SEAT
SOON TO COME: WARN WINCH, PLOW MOUNT, TIRES(HAVEN’T DECIDED WHAT KIND YET.
|||
97 HARLEY SOFTAIL (RUNNING)(CRASHED)
07 Honda Foreman 500 fm. (SOLD) LONG GONE!!
OPINIONS ARE LIKE ASSH0LES, OF COURSE MY SH!T DONT STINK!!!
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FaithfulAndTrue
Guest
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joe370
Guest
The Protestant way is definitely less demanding. In a real sense, you are your own boss because no one has the authority to dictate anything to another, at least in theory.I’ve been both. For the first 47 years of my life, I was an active and faithful member of various evangelical Protestant churches. In 2004, my husband and I converted to Catholicism, and we’ve been active and faithful Catholics.
So which is easier?
I don’t want to post my opinion yet (mainly because I have to go to work now!). Also, I am interested in reading what others have to say.
On the surface, it seems that Protestantism is the “easier” path. No obligations, no sacraments. For many Protestants, no fear of ever losing heaven. Great music, friendly people, lots of activities for children and teenagers. Lots of activities for all ages, actually.
Catholics have obligations, including the Sunday Mass obligation. Catholics have sacraments. Catholics must avoid “mortal sin” or they will not go to heaven. Catholic music is often bearable, but seldom great. Many Catholic parishes are hard to make friends in. Often there are very limited activities for Catholics–maybe a Bible study, and maybe not. Probably not a weekly kids’ club–instead, the kids get “religious education”–no campfires or craft projects or sing-alongs in CCD! And youth groups–often they are pretty small, because all the Catholic teens are over at the Assemblies of God weekly youth meeting along with hundreds of other teens! Or the Catholic teens have stopped attending Church entirely, to the dismay of their parents.
But is Protestantism really easier? Hmmm…
I encourage anyone to think about and answer this question. Obviously converts to Catholicism have personal experience with both forms of Christianity, but I know a lot of Catholics who have knowledge of Protestant life and practices, too.
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joe370
Guest
I am guessing that it wasn’t your intention to come off as sounding that inflammatory?
CCC:
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**"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276**
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Marybeloved
Guest
Roy, I’ve read most of your posts on this thread. You seem to place a lot of emphasis on what you call “independent thinking” and freedom from authority like the Church, the bible, the church fathers and anything not you. This has lead you to stances like pro-choice and pro-abortion, and the idea that moral law is a burden on people which you compared to shariah- which is actually a false comparison, shariah is a combination of mosque and state and nothing like the moral obligations that Christians and Muslims follow in their daily lives, far removed from any political authority.
I’d just like to say, that Human intellect is not all that “super”, It’s highly over-rated and we do not know half as much as the Devil likes to lie to us that we know. A stance such as yours is precisely what lead Adam to want to possess “knowledge of good and evil” for himself, like God, and not rely on God’s directives. By his act of pride, he brought sin, death and suffering into human experience, and opened Hell to humanity. We are not truly all that great in our intellects, We don’t know everything, and if God truly let us have our way even for a short while, we would dread such “independence” with the horror of death. Refusal to submit judgment to authority is the pride that all our Saints caution against, and humility is the true mark of holiness.
The Devil wants you to believe that you don’t need anyone or anything to have authority over you. After all, he’s the very personification of that pride that will not submit even to God. But he’s a liar, Roy, what he wants is what he wanted when he whispered the same things to Adam that he whispers to modern man- You can decide for yourself what is right and wrong, you don’t need anyone to tell you anything. What he wants is the death, suffering and destruction of mankind, on earth and in eternity- It’s all he pursues, all he wants.
The Devil is defeated by one thing only- Give up your life, pick up your cross and follow Jesus. What you give up freely is not yours anymore, but belongs to the one you surrender it to. There it’s safe from the attacks of the evil one. A person who has surrendered to another, cannot say that his personal life is out of bounds to the law of his master- He’s truly free with what the saints call the freedom of the children of God. He’s free from his own passions and evil tendencies, from the bondage of sin and from the Devil. He’s like a child who plays in the sun with joy in his heart, with his parent nearby watching, unperturbed by the cares of the world or any possible dangers. All that occupies him is all the different ways to experience the joy of his childhood. Humility is freedom, my friend, submission is freedom, true freedom. I pray you find it.
Peace.
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Roy5
Guest
** Marybeloved**
** Thank you** for your civil and sincere response to my postings.
** In those good old days, Catholic nations often imposed laws not all that unlike Shariah law.** I recall the shock I received when I was reading Aquinas years ago in college. My undergraduate thesis was on Aquinas. I came upon his question-and-answer as to what should be done with heretics. No, he said, the Church should not kill them. BUT, the Church should turn them over to civil authorities who then should kill them! What do you think of that? Sounds like an modern-day wild Islamic radical to me.
** You are content to accept what you are told. Fine. No argument from me.** But I believe God gave us a brain to use. Religion should not be a straitjacket. We should have the freedom to think and investigate and weigh and ponder. I find it challenging, exciting and adding depth to my faith. I have given a lot of thought to certain Catholic doctrines. Some I accept. But why should I feel forced to accept other things where I have sincere doubts? Some of the Marian-related doctrines, for example. The Immaculate Conception. The Assumption. Mary as a sinless person throughout her life. Possible, but I have me doubts. And what difference does it make? Mary surely is/was ‘blessed’ but I find nothing in the Bible to suggest that she was born without original sin - well, actually, I believe we all were born with a propensity to sin though I would not trace it back to Adam’s fall. The Bible doesn’t even tell us the names of Mary’s parents. The Bible says ‘all have sinned and fallen short…’ Etc.
God bless you anyway - and God bless everybody - no exceptions. May religion become a bridge rather than a barrier.
** Thank you** for your civil and sincere response to my postings.
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**We seem to be so far apart that it's difficult to engage**. For example, I do not take the story of Adam and Eve literally. I believe it is a parable. In fact, much in the Bible I do not take literally as I believe it conflicts with the spirit of Christ. In his Sermon on the Mount he said several times: "Ye have heard it said, but I say unto you...." I go with Jesus rather than the Old Testament.
**For example, do you believe Ex. 22:18 and 20, that witches should be killed and all those who are of another faith should be exterminated?** Do you believe II Kings 2:23-25 - that after Elisha 'called down a curse on them (youth) in the name of the Lord' two bears mauled 42 young people? I mean, give me a break. Do you believe that God commanded Joshua to slaughter the inhabitants of Jericho or ordered Saul to kill every remaining man, woman, child and suckling among the Amalekites!? Really, how can one worship any god who demanded such genocide? How can we oppose abortion (which I do, by the way, except in very few and extreme situations) and believe such vile slanders directed against God?
Code:
**Back to Adam for a moment. **Kierkegaard, the great Danish theologian, pointed something out. If Adam and Eve could not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, how could they known good from evil? Perhaps the command from God made no sense if they did not have such knowledge. In any case, I believe that God is just and we all would not be infected with original sin because Adam sinned. That's like blaming our great-geat-grandchildren for our failings. That, by the way, is a flaw in the Ten Commandments. Recheck Ex. 20:4-5. Etc.
Code:
** We could go on and on, but believe as you will, and I will do the same.** My concern with Christianity, over many years now, is that the message of Christ be not overshadowed by superstitions and paganism. Sorry if this thought offends you. In Matt. 25he quite clearly gives us the recipe for eternal life (along with the parable of the Good Samaritan). It has little to do with proper doctrine or liturgy. It has everything to do with serving God through serving one another. Faith, hope and love, and the greatest of these is love. I find insistence upon correct dogma and precise patterns of worship contrary to the spirit of Jesus, a special friend to the outcast, the pariahs, and all those who took issue with the established religion of that time.
** As to the thread, there are at least two ways of answering the question. ** (1) If one wants to think for himself - condemned as egotistical apparently by some - liberal Protestantism is easier, as it permits this. Not fundamentalist Protestantism, by the way, which also can be very authoritative. (2) If one wants to be told what to believe, a source of comfort and security for millions, Catholicism is easier because it does that. Most Catholics I know well, within my family circle and beyond, are more like liberal Protestants than traditional Catholics because, while they often remain firmly within the church, they still think independently. Their cultural and family ties keep them Catholic, although some have left the church.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Roy,
You may want to read the following just so you know who your audience is. I have a 12 year old. I routinely tell her my job is to keep you safe. That is what my advice to her is. The Church is like that. The Church wants to keep the flock safe. You are writing to an audience that believes in Adam and Eve. Read the following encyclical. It will give you insight to your audience if nothing else.
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis_en.html
The Church, in keeping us safe, asks that we know that Reason is good however it is important when using reason to use it with the understanding that it be tempered by Phiosophical understanding as exemplified by Aquinas.
The Church keeps us safe. You will make no headway in proposing that The Bible means something to you as it means something very different to the Chruch and us. You will make no headway in proposing untempered reason with this crowd. I suggest you read, rethink and understand your audience.
A
Akini
Guest
Quote
I am guessing that it wasn’t your intention to come off as sounding that inflammatory?
Sometimes, truth can hurt some people. It was not intentional but rather simply stating truth.
I am guessing that it wasn’t your intention to come off as sounding that inflammatory?
Sometimes, truth can hurt some people. It was not intentional but rather simply stating truth.
A
Akini
Guest
Quoted from CCC by joe370
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.“272”
The above quotation from the CCC is not explicit, simply beating around the bush. Baptism is just about entering the door into the Hall of the Kingdom of Heaven. You still have to dance after you have entered the Kingdom. How well you perform your dance throughout the dancing period is what really matters. In other words, baptism just allows us to enter the so-called Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever we do after baptism until death is what really determines our true final destination.
It is true that our separated brethrens (sisters) are called christians (in the light of baptism) but that does not mean that they are bound for everlasting bliss. This also applies to us Catholics. However, the difference with us Catholics is that we have an avenue where we can go and repent (Sacrament of Reconciliation) whenever we commit sin. It is like a workshop for vehicles. Every three months or so, you have to bring your car to the worhsop for maintenance purposes. Protestants do not have this workshop so how can they maintain themselves - free of mortal sins?
I will pause by saying that, personally, I think the 2nd Vatican Council has given too much leeway to our separated brethrens and in so doing, diluted some of the truths of Roman Catholicism.
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.“272”
The above quotation from the CCC is not explicit, simply beating around the bush. Baptism is just about entering the door into the Hall of the Kingdom of Heaven. You still have to dance after you have entered the Kingdom. How well you perform your dance throughout the dancing period is what really matters. In other words, baptism just allows us to enter the so-called Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever we do after baptism until death is what really determines our true final destination.
It is true that our separated brethrens (sisters) are called christians (in the light of baptism) but that does not mean that they are bound for everlasting bliss. This also applies to us Catholics. However, the difference with us Catholics is that we have an avenue where we can go and repent (Sacrament of Reconciliation) whenever we commit sin. It is like a workshop for vehicles. Every three months or so, you have to bring your car to the worhsop for maintenance purposes. Protestants do not have this workshop so how can they maintain themselves - free of mortal sins?
I will pause by saying that, personally, I think the 2nd Vatican Council has given too much leeway to our separated brethrens and in so doing, diluted some of the truths of Roman Catholicism.
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