Is it easier to be Protestant or Catholic?

[Tridentine4ever]

I think the real question is not which religion is easier to belong to, but what religion reeps rewards in the afterlife? (catholicism of course)
As Catholics there are many crosses we have to carry, it isnt supposed to be easy, Jesus said it Himself.

Besides, should we follow the beliefs of the Apostles, which have been preserved only in the Catholic Church (in their entirety), or should we listen to the garbage theology and scripture interpretations of Martin Luther and John Calvin, which clearly contradict what the earliest Church Fathers and Doctors believed?

Easy is not the question, truth is.

Pax Christi

 

[CMatt25]

it isnt supposed to be easy, Jesus said it Himself.

Matt 11:30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Luke 11:46 But he said: Woe to you lawyers also, because you load men with burdens which they cannot bear, and you yourselves touch not the packs with one of your fingers.

 

[guanophore]

So what do you think–should we be on Journey Home? Would this experience help others? Or is this experience just too frightening for a television audience?

Wow Cat, what a painful story to read. It is frightening story, unfortunately, too common. In fact, I don’t doubt you would find resonance in a telivision audience.

I recommend that you send your story to Journey Home, and let them decide. I notice they tend to focus on elements of positive drawing, rather than coming home because one has been “spit out” of their ecclesial community. But just submit your story and if they deem it appropriate they will let you know. In the meantime, you have a powerful testimony, and I hope you keep offering it. I will also pray for your younger daughter, that she will be healed of whatever happened to her.

 

[guanophore]

Paul is not talking about salvation here. He was certain of his relationship with God… and he was talking to believers that were in that same relationship with God. He is talking about not allowing himself to get bogged down … and instead continuing to focus on the work that God set before him.

This is what you have been taught to believe, so that anti-Catholic theology can be maintained, but that is not what the scripture says.

Yes, Paul was certain about his relationship with God. He was also certain about the fact that people can, and do, walk away from that relationship, and that we have this ability right up the the point of death. He knew that, as long as he is on this earth, he could fall from grace, be cut off, become like weeds, whose end is to be burned.

Look at the context. The verse just prior to this says:

Phil 3:10-11
10… that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11** that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. **

…“What we have attained” … is right standing with God … he says hold onto that foundation (already attained) … and, with that in place, press toward the goal of accomplishing the work set before you by God before the foundation of the world.

Yes, of course. Catholics call this right standing with God a “state of grace” or being justified. You are right that walking in the deeds that He has planned for us is absolutely essential to maintaining that state of right standing with God. If we abandon those works he has prepared for us, and involve ourselves with sin, we will be separated from that right standing. You see, Catholics believe that the nature of sin has not changed. Sin has always separated mankind from God, and still has the potential to do so.

"The prize of the upward call" is the reward that Jesus promised ... for a job well done.

For Catholics, the prize is salvation. Yes, there are rewards for a job well done, but attaining heaven is winning the race.

Rom 6:22-23
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, **the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. **23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Throughout this life we are being sanctified, and the end of that sanctification is eternal life. But we don’t assume that we have “already attained” the end result. The Apostles taught that, so long as we are on this earth, we will work out our salvation with fear and trembling. This is our upward call, eternal life being the prize.

Col 3:23-25
23 Whatever your task, work heartily, as serving the Lord and not men, 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ.

He speaks here of a singular “inheritance” as the reward for the hearty work. What is that inheritance?

1 Peter 1:3-9

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and to an inheritance which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, 5 who by God’s power are guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while you may have to suffer various trials, 7 so that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold which though perishable is tested by fire, may redound to praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 8 Without having seen him you love him; though you do not now see him you believe in him and rejoice with unutterable and exalted joy. 9** As the outcome of your faith you obtain the salvation of your souls. **

The inheritance, the outcome of our faith, is the salvation of our souls. This salvation/inheritance is kept in heaven for us. There are some who become justified, then fail to persevere in faith, and never become united with their inheritance.

Paul knows that the outcome of his faith has not yet been attained, but is being kept in heaven for him. He is currently enduring trials, and must persevere in those trials to “win the race”. If he does not endure the trials, he will be disqualified from the race.

 

[guanophore]

James 1:12-15
12 Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one; 14 but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death.

Standing the test must occur before the crown of life.

Rev 2:10-11
Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who conquers shall not be hurt by the second death.’

And, by implication, he who fails to conquer - the one who is NOT faithful unto death, the one who is disqualified, shipwrecked, falls from grace, is cut off etc, etc. WILL be hurt by the second death.

Rev 3:5-6
5 He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

And by implication, the one who does not conquer may have his name blotted out of the book of life.

Paul knows that, so long as he faces the trials of this life, he may fail to conquer, and his name can be blotted out of the book of life.

… " we will place our crowns (rewards) at his feet"

Yes, but first we have to GET there! Sin separates the soul from God, preventing unitification with the heavenly inheritance.

He is saying … Dont look back … Stay focused … and if there is a problem that is throwing you off the trail dont worry about it … God will reveal that to you.

Yes, he is staying focused on the prize, which is eternal life, but there is nothing here about a “problem that is throwing you off the trail”. He is saying that the mature attitude is the one that does not assume heaven has already been attained.

 

[guanophore]

There is no pressure in most mainline Protestant churches to conform on theological issues - and social, too.

How could anyone read Cat’s post, and still think this?!

 Within Catholicism as well as evangelical Protestantism this freedom is limited by firm doctrines that are considered sacrosanct.

Yes, we are not at liberty to change the doctrine that was once for all delivered to the Church by Christ through the Apostles. We are commanded to preserve it.

Some find it easier to be told, in effect, how to think and what views to hold on social issues. Others would see that as a straight-jacket and find it far easier to think for themselves.

This is an erronous understanding of the position of the Church. The Church encourages us to think for ourselves - to study, and have our faith seek understanding. What is not encouraged is to think by ourselves. We need not pursue knowledge apart from the Teachings of the Faith found in Scripture, the early Fathers, Doctors, saints of the Church and the Magesterium. It is when the mind of man departs from the precepts of divine wisdom that humans stray from the path of life.

    God bless 'em all. I'm quite sure in my own limited mind that God doesn't judge us by our doctrines. The parable of the Good Samaritan established that - among other Biblical texts. Jesus was asked: how can I inherit eternal life? Christ said nothing about theology. ...

  We should go and do our best to follow that example.

Luke 18:18-20

18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’”

If you think that following the commandments of God has nothing to do with theology, you are gravely mistaken. On the contrary, it has everything to do with who God is, who we are in the sight of God, and what He requires of us.

 

[guanophore]

Matt 11:30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Luke 11:46 But he said: Woe to you lawyers also, because you load men with burdens which they cannot bear, and you yourselves touch not the packs with one of your fingers.

The word used here of the yoke is that it “fits well”. That means it will not cause needless suffering to the one wearing it.

Matt 7:13-14

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

You and Roy seem to be pointing to the wide and easy road, saying 'it is much better that way".

I agree, if you spurn the Teachings of the Apostles preserved infallibly in the Catholic Church, the road may be much wider, and easier. But is that road taking you where you want to go?

 

[CMatt25]

How could anyone read Cat’s post, and still think this?!

Because Roy said “There is no pressure in most mainline Protestant churches to conform on theological issues - and social, too.”

Now I confess I have not read every word here. But I did see Cat say she was a member of various evangelical Protestant churches.

So it depends on what Cat means by “evangelical” and what Roy meant by “most mainline”.

 

[Roman_Catechism]

Matt 11:30 For my yoke is sweet and my burden light.

Luke 11:46 But he said: Woe to you lawyers also, because you load men with burdens which they cannot bear, and you yourselves touch not the packs with one of your fingers.

If the way of the Christian is to carry the cross and die at Calvary with Christ…It won’t be easy for anyone, CMatt25.

 

[Tridentine4ever]

“In Christian communion, though imperfectly, let us strive to walk together to glorify His name.”
by this qoute, do you meam that we should not try and bring protestants back to the Church that Jesus established? It is very important to always stand up for the whe truth, which nothing other than the Holy Catholic Church believes and teaches. Truth can not be compromised.[BIBLEDRB]

 

[JonNC]

A Protestant believes that he or she does not have to do very much to achieve salvation, if that’s what you are asking.

Certainly not my experience. Which “protestant” are you speaking of?

My former faith was quite easy to live, as I didn’t have to even actively try to avoid sin, because no matter what I did, my salvation was assured, so I thought

Are you willing to share what faith communion this was?

Jon

 

[Roman_Catechism]

Certainly not my experience. Which “protestant” are you speaking of?

Are you willing to share what faith communion this was?

Jon

Where I live, it is a typical “Baptist” view. Though the word “Baptist” is thrown around a lot. The views of any particular Baptist congregation aren’t necessarily representative of “orthodox” Baptist teaching, even though technically there is no such thing.

“If you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior, his blood covers your heart” and it is as if you are heretofore incapable of sin.

 

[JonNC]

Where I live, it is a typical “Baptist” view. Though the word “Baptist” is thrown around a lot. The views of any particular Baptist congregation aren’t necessarily representative of “orthodox” Baptist teaching, even though technically there is no such thing.

“If you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and savior, his blood covers your heart” and it is as if you are heretofore incapable of sin.

Guess that’s why I’m not Baptist, amongst other reasons. Perhaps then, the term Baptist would have been more clear than “protestant” in the post I responded to.

Thanks,
Jon

 

[Roman_Catechism]

Guess that’s why I’m not Baptist, amongst other reasons. Perhaps then, the term Baptist would have been more clear than “protestant” in the post I responded to.

Thanks,
Jon

I don’t get what you’re saying here. My generalized statement about Protestants who thanks to sola fide do not believe that good works are necessary for their salvation (and therefore what they actually do in practice is often treated as rather inconsequential) can surely apply to a lot of Protestant denominations, even if it does not apply to you. And I mean no offense whatever to anyone.

 

[JonNC]

I don’t get what you’re saying here. My generalized statement about Protestants who thanks to sola fide do not believe that good works are necessary for their salvation (and therefore what they actually do in practice is often treated as rather inconsequential) can surely apply to a lot of Protestant denominations, even if it does not apply to you. And I mean no offense whatever to anyone.

What I’m saying is one can’t paint “protestants” with a broad brush. In addition, I don’t think it can be said that even most who believe in OSAS or perseverance of saints take the position that our actions are somehow inconsequential.

Jon

 

[Publisher]

What I’m saying is one can’t paint “protestants” with a broad brush. In addition, I don’t think it can be said that even most who believe in OSAS or perseverance of saints take the position that our actions are somehow inconsequential.

Jon

Most Protestants believe what they do IS OF UTMOST importance…sanctification is very very much a part of most Protestant’s theology.

 

[CMatt25]

If the way of the Christian is to carry the cross and die at Calvary with Christ…It won’t be easy for anyone, CMatt25.

Christ already carried the cross and died for us.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Christ already carried the cross and died for us.

“37] He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
[38] and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.”(Matt 10:37-38)

" 24] Then Jesus told his disciples, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
[25] For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
[26] For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life? Or what shall a man give in return for his life?
[27] For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man **for what he has done.” **(Matt 16:24-27)

“27] Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.”(Luke 14:27)

"24] Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, "(Col 1:24).

We have a debt of honor to repay to the Lord, to follow after Christ and to accept sufferiing as He did. To accept suffering as grace is to grow in love and to more fully conform ourselves to Christ.

 

[CMatt25]

We have a debt of honor to repay to the Lord, to follow after Christ and to accept sufferiing as He did. To accept suffering as grace is to grow in love and to more fully conform ourselves to Christ.

Or since God already gave His Son Who suffered for us, we can simply believe in Him and show our faith and love for Him by caring for the poor and the sick and be among the righteous who shall go to eternal life. Or we can be peacemakers. Or we can be persecuted and be rewarded in heaven.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Matt 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

37 Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’

40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.

46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me.

12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Or since God already gave His Son Who suffered for us, we can simply believe in Him and show our faith and love for Him by caring for the poor and the sick and be among the righteous who shall go to eternal life. Or we can be peacemakers. Or we can be persecuted and be rewarded in heaven.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Matt 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,

36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

37 Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?

39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’

40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,

43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.

46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

11 Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me.

12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.

Or any of the beatitudes. But the bottom line is still that we owe Jesus a debt of honor. He gives us the grace to carry on His work, beit suffering, or caring for others, or whatever we are called to do. We have to do what He calls us to do and accept peacefully and in faith when things don’t work out how we want.