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sanz91392
Guest
The question I have is, If someone is putting you through sadness and pain, is it wishing evil on them to feel what they are putting you through?
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blackforest
Well-known member
Yes. That “love thy neighbor” part of the Bible is specifically there for our difficult neighbors. We’re commanded to pray for our persecutors, not wish ill on them.
Easier said than done, I know . . .
Easier said than done, I know . . .
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SPBlitz
Guest
Yes, it would be wrong, even though the desire is understandable. In C.S. Lewis’ The Problem of Pain, he mentions of revenge:
“…we get vindictive passion - the thirst for revenge. This, of course, is evil and expressly forbidden to Christians… The good thing of which vindictive passion is the perversion of comes out with startling clarity in Hobbe’s definition of Revengefulness, ‘desire by doing hurt to another to make him condemn some fact of his own’. Revenge loses sight of the end in the means, but its end is not wholly bad.”
Later in the book, he reiterates:
“The least indulgence of the passion for revenge is very deadly sin. Christian charity counsels us to make every effort for the conversion [of the sinner].”
“…we get vindictive passion - the thirst for revenge. This, of course, is evil and expressly forbidden to Christians… The good thing of which vindictive passion is the perversion of comes out with startling clarity in Hobbe’s definition of Revengefulness, ‘desire by doing hurt to another to make him condemn some fact of his own’. Revenge loses sight of the end in the means, but its end is not wholly bad.”
Later in the book, he reiterates:
“The least indulgence of the passion for revenge is very deadly sin. Christian charity counsels us to make every effort for the conversion [of the sinner].”
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Inquiry
Guest
Your motivation matters so much when it comes to this kind of thing. If you honestly think they don’t know what they are doing and that a taste of what you are feeling might make them realize, then your prayer is for a good cause. For the sake of our neighbors we don’t want them doing bad things to us and we should pray for things that will help them.
But if you are actually praying for them to feel sadness and pain out of a sense of retribution then you are wishing evil on them.
But if you are actually praying for them to feel sadness and pain out of a sense of retribution then you are wishing evil on them.
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JanR
Guest
While we shouldn’t wish evil on them by wishing they could experience the same pain they are making us feel, it IS okay to wish they would UNDERSTAND the pain they are causing us, to become more empathetic and considerate. That’s different, entirely.
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sanz91392
Guest
I believe that is what I am getting at. i do not wish them harm because I would never wish on anybody they pain they are putting me through. What I wish is for them to understand the pain they are causing, especially to someone who has been there for them when they have needed help and understanding.
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sanz91392
Guest
More remorse. They have come to me and told me how they have been mistreated before and I have shown them sympathy, understanding, compassion and love. Yet they then turn around and treat me the very way they have complained about being treated.
I would like for them to understand they are doing to me, what has caused so much pain when it was done to them.
I would like for them to understand they are doing to me, what has caused so much pain when it was done to them.
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sanz91392
Guest
Being human, the thought does cross ones mind, but I always ask God to forgive me because I do not wish them any pain. I then ask for them to realize that they are causing me the very same pain that was done to them and that I am as innocent as they are.
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Titan
Guest
Your friend may have been projecting their own behaviour onto the other people they said hurt them. It’s not unusual for people to ignore the fifty times they did something to hurt another person but complain about the one time that person hurt them.
In your case, it seems your friend does know how much pain they’re causing you. They’ve experienced it themselves. Sadly, I suspect this person doesn’t care about other people and sees friendship as you being there for them but not the other way round. It might be best to cut this person out of your life, if you can, because all they seem to be doing is hurting you.
If you can, I’d suggest visiting a doctor if you’ve got the symptoms of depression. Otherwise, I hope you can see a counsellor to help you work through this. You could also speak to your priest and see if spiritual direction is available to help you use the Catholic methods of coping with pain and suffering. If there’s a monastery near you, that might be somewhere you could get spiritual direction, if your parish priest is unable to help or if you’re more attracted to the spirituality of the monastery.
I’ll be praying for you.
In your case, it seems your friend does know how much pain they’re causing you. They’ve experienced it themselves. Sadly, I suspect this person doesn’t care about other people and sees friendship as you being there for them but not the other way round. It might be best to cut this person out of your life, if you can, because all they seem to be doing is hurting you.
If you can, I’d suggest visiting a doctor if you’ve got the symptoms of depression. Otherwise, I hope you can see a counsellor to help you work through this. You could also speak to your priest and see if spiritual direction is available to help you use the Catholic methods of coping with pain and suffering. If there’s a monastery near you, that might be somewhere you could get spiritual direction, if your parish priest is unable to help or if you’re more attracted to the spirituality of the monastery.
I’ll be praying for you.
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Vico
Guest
It is not a sin to feel an emotion. Sin occurs by some thought, action, or omission that is morally wrong which is willfully done.… to feel …
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JanR
Guest
I was taught that four elements have to be present to commit a sin:
- It has to be wrong.
- One has to know it’s wrong.
- One has to intend to do it.
- One has to actually do it.
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Vico
Guest
Actually doing the sin may be in delectation only, once the intention of the will is established.I was taught that four elements have to be present to commit a sin:
If any one of those element is missing, it’s not a sin. It may be an honest mistake, perhaps a serious one, and it may still have consequences. But, it’s not a sin.
- It has to be wrong.
- One has to know it’s wrong.
- One has to intend to do it.
- One has to actually do it.
And one more case which replaces the condition of knowing it’s wrong, is that of intentional ignorance. Anyway it must be voluntary.
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Socrates92
Guest
Number 4 is not strictly true. If the first three are satisfied the simple intent suffices. The fact that a would-be-murderer is prevented from carrying out his aim does not change his culpability for murder, for example.
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JanR
Guest
I have to disagree. How can he be guilty of a murder if he doesn’t commit one? Simply intending to do it, but not doing it doesn’t result in anyone being killed by him.
I was taught those four elements not only in early Catechism classes, but our priest recently concurred.
It’s only common sense. If one doesn’t do something, it isn’t done by that person.
Would the police charge someone with murder if there is no victim?
I was taught those four elements not only in early Catechism classes, but our priest recently concurred.
It’s only common sense. If one doesn’t do something, it isn’t done by that person.
Would the police charge someone with murder if there is no victim?
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Socrates92
Guest
You may have heard of the crime of “attempted murder”?Would the police charge someone with murder if there is no victim?
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JanR
Guest
Even with attempted murder, one would actually have to DO the attempt, and not just intend to do it. Intention without the actual deed, while it may be a bad intention, it still isn’t a crime. Carrying out the attempt is different. Then it would be a crime, and a sin.
If the intention isn’t acted upon, then the sin isn’t committed. To commit a crime, or a sin, one of the elements has to be intentionally acting on what we know is wrong.
This goes way back to what I learned in my early Catechism classes, and recently a priest backed it up, saying that, “You not only have to do it, you have to deliberately do it.” Even today, it’s recognized that the actual deed has to be done for the sin be committed, and it has to be intentionally done, as well.
This is simple common sense. No action, no crime, and no sin. The only exception would be a sin of omission, where one intentionally fails to do something one knows is right.
If the intention isn’t acted upon, then the sin isn’t committed. To commit a crime, or a sin, one of the elements has to be intentionally acting on what we know is wrong.
This goes way back to what I learned in my early Catechism classes, and recently a priest backed it up, saying that, “You not only have to do it, you have to deliberately do it.” Even today, it’s recognized that the actual deed has to be done for the sin be committed, and it has to be intentionally done, as well.
This is simple common sense. No action, no crime, and no sin. The only exception would be a sin of omission, where one intentionally fails to do something one knows is right.
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Socrates92
Guest
So far so good. The law, of course, cannot read minds, and therefore they of course can’t legislate intent.Even with attempted murder, one would actually have to DO the attempt, and not just intend to do it. Intention without the actual deed, while it may be a bad intention, it still isn’t a crime. Carrying out the attempt is different. Then it would be a crime, and a sin.
This doesn’t follow. God, unlike human institutions, can, and does read your mind and intentions.If the intention isn’t acted upon, then the sin isn’t committed.
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JanR
Guest
Suppose you intend to commit that murder, or rob that bank, or whatever, and then you get a twinge of conscience, think better of it, and don’t go through with it. Surely, God is aware that you heeded your conscience and avoided carrying through what would have been a sinful act.
Yes, he can read our minds, hearts and intentions. But he is also aware of our deeds. And if we decide against harming someone, even if we had initially intended to, and we thereby avoid doing the sin, he takes that into consideration, also We have exercised our free will to NOT do the wrong.
Without that final element of commission, or action, the process of sinning hasn’t been completed. It’s like an electrical circuit. Omit one of the wires, or disconnect it, and the circuit cannot be completed, hence, no juice.
Yes, he can read our minds, hearts and intentions. But he is also aware of our deeds. And if we decide against harming someone, even if we had initially intended to, and we thereby avoid doing the sin, he takes that into consideration, also We have exercised our free will to NOT do the wrong.
Without that final element of commission, or action, the process of sinning hasn’t been completed. It’s like an electrical circuit. Omit one of the wires, or disconnect it, and the circuit cannot be completed, hence, no juice.
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Socrates92
Guest
What you speak of is called contrition/repentance. The intended murder has repented of his sinful intent.Suppose you intend to commit that murder, or rob that bank, or whatever, and then you get a twinge of conscience, think better of it, and don’t go through with it. Surely, God is aware that you heeded your conscience and avoided carrying through what would have been a sinful act.
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Bettyboop
Guest
Simply put…yes. We are to pray good for our enemies, you can Pray that the Lord opens their eyes and softens their heart so they know what they do is wrong. Ask for forgiveness for your bad thoughts toward this person and ask God to bless them.
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