Is it good to hate this life?

[Sailor_Kenshin]

This is precisely why Catholics are not sola scriptura. There’s danger in interpreting chapter and verse for ourselves.

And anyway, nowhere in the Bible is the word ‘Bible’ mentioned!

 

[Robert_Sock]

This is precisely why Catholics are not sola scriptura. There’s danger in interpreting chapter and verse for ourselves.

And anyway, nowhere in the Bible is the word ‘Bible’ mentioned!

What do you suppose is being said in Matthew 16:
*
24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.*

God Bless.

 

[PetersKeys]

. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God. 

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .

–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas A Kempis

I feel very in touch with this writing. While I try to view the goodness in this world I tend to be let down in many ways because of how society acts. There are many times I do groan in my body and lift my eyes towards heaven for liberation from the snares of this world.

True happiness is to be with God. And I am not fully with him yet. My worldly body seperates me, yet my spirit crys out foward for him through Christ. Hopefully God will view me worthy enough one day to be with him and I pray he will see my faith in his Son as genuine.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I feel very in touch with this writing. While I try to view the goodness in this world I tend to be let down in many ways because of how society acts. There are many times I do groan in my body and lift my eyes towards heaven for liberation from the snares of this world.

True happiness is to be with God. And I am not fully with him yet. My worldly body seperates me, yet my spirit crys out foward for him through Christ. Hopefully God will view me worthy enough one day to be with him and I pray he will see my faith in his Son as genuine.

I’m always reading this passage from The Imitation of Christ. I too find it profound, powerful and uplifting spiritually. It’s the type of passage that never grows old.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

Sorry, but I must continue to disagree and take the advice of Fathers Frank Pavone and Wade Menezes.

To hate the gift of life would be itself sinful. Otherwise, why not just sit and wait to die, and not try to save the unborn?

Did Mary hate Joseph? Did she hate her cousin Elizabeth, whom she served for LOVE of neighbor?

misconception of what is being discussed here cause a true Christian would not hate the life you speak of but what is being said here is one’s sinful life, deny yourself for the sake of the gospel.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

nowhere in the New Testament are we told to love or enjoy this life"Pick up your cross and follow me!"

Yes, who thinks life is a bunch of sorrows, his life as a whole is indeed just bad and sad and miserable then.

In the most miserable times of St. Peter and St Paul their letters where full of invitation for joy (Ephesians 6:3 - that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth)

Even in the old Testament we are told by prophets, in the new by Jesus and the Evangelists BE JOYFUL (Acts 2:28 - You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence) or rejoyce… how would Jesus say so if life is just sad.

If you look simply for one of the many words for “Joy”, you find the bible full with it.
Here just for a sample, the word REJOICE

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Luke 1:47
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
Luke 10:20
However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
Romans 5:11
Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
2 Corinthians 2:3
I wrote as I did so that when I came I should not be distressed by those who ought to make merejoice. I had confidence in all of you, that you would all share my joy.
Philippians 4:4
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!
1 Peter 1:6
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.

Don’t say we are not called to be joyful. Cheer up and find many other invitations for joyful life in the Bible - even if and only if we take up the cross and follow Jesus!

(Thanks to po18guy who helped me to find these verses in your English Bible! - mine is German ;-)**

 

[Robert_Sock]

**

Yes, who thinks life is a bunch of sorrows, his life as a whole is indeed just bad and sad and miserable then.

In the most miserable times of St. Peter and St Paul their letters where full of invitation for joy (Ephesians 6:3 - that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth)

Even in the old Testament we are told by prophets, in the new by Jesus and the Evangelists BE JOYFUL (Acts 2:28 - You have made known to me the paths of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence) or rejoyce… how would Jesus say so if life is just sad.

If you look simply for one of the many words for “Joy”, you find the bible full with it.
Here just for a sample, the word REJOICE

Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Luke 1:47
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior**
Luke 10:20
However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
Romans 5:11
Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
2 Corinthians 2:3
I wrote as I did so that when I came I should not be distressed by those who ought to make merejoice. I had confidence in all of you, that you would all share my joy.
Philippians 4:4
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!
1 Peter 1:6
In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials.
1 Peter 4:13
**But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
**
Don’t say we are not called to be joyful. Cheer up and find many other invitations for joyful life in the Bible - even if and only if we take up the cross and follow Jesus!

(Thanks to po18guy who helped me to find these verses in your English Bible! - mine is German

I never said we were not called to find joy, but that this joy is not to be found in this life itself. All the joy is in God, and fixing our sights on the Hereafter. So, yes, rejoice, for you have found favor in God. God indeed wants us to be joyful, but he wants us to derive this joyfulness from Himself and from the things that are holy, and not from this life in and of itself! God also wants us to love one another, so yes, we should also find love in this life, but we ought not love this miserable and corrupt life.

John 12:25 (New International Version)

“The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”

God Bless!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

What do you suppose is being said in Matthew 16:
*
24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.*

God Bless.

Bless you, too.

I’m not here to fight with you but I don’t interpret verses on my own. I leave that to the magisterium and my priests (which include all the wonderful EWTN crowd).

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

we ought not love this miserable and corrupt life.

Life is only then miserable and corrupt, if we make it miserable and corrupt. It’s men-made if it’s such.
Mother Teresa lifed in a surrounding and condition, that was and still is miserable and corrupt.
Mother Teresa never found therefore her own life miserable and corrupt, But joyful, for she was able to serve Jesus Christ.
Had you asked Mother Teresa what life is, she never would have used your answer “miserable and corrupt”, but she had said “great”.

Love
Bruno**

 

[Robert_Sock]

**

Life is only then miserable and corrupt, if we make it miserable and corrupt. It’s men-made if it’s such.
Mother Teresa lifed in a surrounding and condition, that was and still is miserable and corrupt.
Mother Teresa never found therefore her own life miserable and corrupt, But joyful, for she was able to serve Jesus Christ.
Had you asked Mother Teresa what life is, she never would have used your answer “miserable and corrupt”, but she had said “great”.

Love
Bruno**

What would the Virgin Mary have to say about this life?

*Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!
Our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished
children of Eve, to thee do we send
up our sighs, mourning and weeping
in this valley, of tears.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us; and
after this our exile show unto us the
blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.

Pray for us, O holy Mother of God

That we may be made worthy of the
promises of Christ. *

God Bless!

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Oh thanks so much you gave me this hint Robert: >What would the Virgin Mary have to say about this life?<

for no woman on the world had this most wonderful experience having the immense grace of God to be “Theotokos” the worldly Mother of Jesus Christ, who had been long before Abraham was.

When the Angel Gabriel told Mary what was going to happen, (Luke 1:26-50) “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you. Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus… and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end. The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.”

Mary was full of joy and said: “Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word.”

No person in the world ever had nor ever will have such great and joyful news!
When Elizabeth, the later mom to John Baptist, heard Mary coming up to her to tell her the news, she already knew for the child jumped for joy in her womb and she, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out:

“Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”

And Mary said: "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior. For He has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed. The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name. His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.

Isn’t this a singly outcry of joy?!

Yes – Jesus suffered on His own will for our salvation. Mary suffered all the same. But who would dare to say, that after all this would be sad thing, hateful, good to hate this life. No – really and clearly no! But on the contrary a loud, thank- and
joyful:
THANK YOU DEAR GOD for this life of mine I live through your outsized grace, that let’s me take part of your being and kingdom.

**

 

[Robert_Sock]

The Virgin Mary found favor with God. It is because of this favor that she experienced joy. Again, yes, finding favor with God should cause us to experience joy within this otherwise sorrowful world.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**Well - sadly enough there are indeed many Christians, who misunderstand the taking up of Jesus cross, and walk through life miserable. Depressing to many who avoid sad persons, for they make others sad. How could they cheer others up?!
Furthermore; - Atheists and other nonchristians would say: Look at this Christians – what a miserable lot. Beware of Christians and never become one yourself, for they hate life. I know very godly priests, nuns and friars, who just love ther lifes.

Doubtlessly the man who was forced to pick up Jesus’ cross in Mt 27,32, Simon, surely was the most joyful man in the world ever after - having been able to actually share that dreadful situation with Jesus Himself!
Sad? No! There’s no sadness about that. All of us would be deliriously happy, if we had been in the situation of Simon the cross-bearer.

It is indeed heartbreaking to hear or read the passion of Jesus Christ. It touches many of us to tears, every time we read what human race uploaded upon us, when we crucified God.
It was not “they” not “others” – it was us who did the unspeakable.

But this unthinkable horror ended in the most joyful victory of of the world ever – the resurrection of Jesus Christ on Easter and His victory over Hell - 1Cor 15,57: Thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

The joy of Easter be with us all times, until we see God. The sadness of death and the netherworld is overcome.
Psalm 94,17 tells us: If the LORD were not my help, I would long have been silent in the grave.

All this is joyful for lifetime and eternity!

To hate this life looks rather very much like rebuffing God’s graceful gift of being set on the list, mentioned in Luke 10,20:
Rejoice because our names are written in heaven.
**

 

[Robert_Sock]

. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God. 

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .

–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas A Kempis

Bruno,

What do you say about The Imitation of Christ, the second most read book by Christians, next only to the Holy Bible?

God Bless.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

Robert Sock asked: “What do you say about The Imitation of Christ, the second most read book by Christians, next only to the Holy Bible?”

**Tell me: What did Thomas von Kempen in the 14th/15th Century say, that would not anyway be clear to those Christians, who know and understood the Bible, and live in Gods word?

Yes, he gave a lot of real good explanations to the way of Christian thinking; which real Christians though, exercised already.

14th and 15th Century where rotten times. Wars and moral disaster even within Church and convents. Black Death spread misery and death over Europe. Rotten times create extremely bad, as well as extremely good people.

In Europe many Mystics wrote great books or gave great witness of life in God. So Master Eckhart, Heinrich Seuse, Johannes Tauler, Heinrich von Nördlingen, Margarete Ebner, Birgitta of Sweden, Johann von Kastl and many more.

In times where moral and Christianity perish, there are great spirits like Thomas von Kempen who galvanize people back on the right track.

But nowhere is spoken about self-chastisement, nowhere of not enjoying life (which at that times of course was most unpleasant).

Natural (clean) joy has nothing to do with non-Christian life.
Isn’t a good prayer joy itself to a person who lives in God?
Isn’t thankfulness joy itself?
Isn’t it great and joyful experience to be healthy, to see the wonders of Gods creation and to live amidst all this?!

Must not God ask all the people who don’t find joy in life; – “don’t you like all I made for you?! Isn’t my creation good enough for you?!”

Look at all those pagans who life in deepest misery and daily fear for their life. Aren’t we immeasurably rich compared to this?
Where is our joy about this fact?

There are Saints, who lost everything inclusive their health and where tortured, and still cried out: Joy is in my heart, for I know God. And see Deuteronomy 12,7:
There, too, before the LORD, your God, you and your families shall eat and make merry over all your undertakings, because the LORD, your God, has blessed you.

**

 

[ready]

I think what is important is that we only find our joy in God…any goodness in this life should just lead us to seek more intensely life eternal in God. Yes, a loving family and a loving Church community makes life beautiful and good, but we should always keep our roots in life eternal for the sake of ourselves, our family, and our Church. What I am trying to say is, this life should be hated, especially when it comes to the choice between this life and the next (life eternal.) So if we ever choose this life over life eternal by choosing to sin out of love of this life (through need for fitting in, etc.) and deny God, we would be falling short of what our Lord Jesus tells us to do. I believe He wants us to be in love with Him *at all costs *by telling us to hate this life. He doesn’t tell us to hate life, but this life, so we never choose it over life in the Spirit/eternal life through sin and inordinate love.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

I think what is important is that we only find our joy in God…

Oh there’s a lot of beauty and joy in this life. Non-believers can’t be convinced of Christianity, if we “only find our joy in God”. Atheists would laugh and say rightly:
“there is such a lot of joy in life, that makes life worth while living, like a nice family, the beauty of nature, the joy of a wonderful morning and thousand others.”
Clearly: The phrase “we only find our joy in God”, makes atheists not turn to Christianity, but rather to stay away and feel pity for Christians.

If we on one hand admit; loving family etc. makes life beautiful - but in the same breath underline, that this life should be hated;
non-Christians would think we are crazy.

What good is it, to announce to a Christian, that this goes "especially for when it comes to the choice between this life and the next - life eternal - as we do never have this choice in the every-day-life of a Christian, for we already long ago made our choice for God

Jesus never told us to hate this life God had given us; but he told us to hate to prefer this life to the life in heaven –in Gods Kingdom, and as said in post 77, 86 and 91, we are encouraged to enjoy this life too. Remember also Deuteronomy 12,18-21: “…before the LORD, you shall make merry over all your undertakings… when you wish meat for food, you may eat it at will, to your heart’s desire”.

Let’s be joyful – for we know GOD IS, and we are with God if we live in His word. And we will live eternally in God’s kingdom as Jesus promised in John 11,26

**

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

I think what is important is that we only find our joy in God…

Oh there’s a lot of beauty and joy in this life. Non-believers can’t be convinced of Christianity, if we “only find our joy in God”. Atheists would laugh and say rightly:
“there is such a lot of joy in life, that makes life worth while living, like a nice family, the beauty of nature, the joy of a wonderful morning and thousand others.”
Clearly: The phrase “we only find our joy in God”, makes atheists not turn to Christianity, but rather to stay away and feel pity for Christians.

If we on one hand admit; loving family etc. makes life beautiful - but in the same breath underline, that this life should be hated;
non-Christians would think we are crazy.

What good is it, to announce to a Christian, that this goes "especially for when it comes to the choice between this life and the next - life eternal - as we do never have this choice in the every-day-life of a Christian, for we already long ago made our choice for God

Jesus never told us to hate this life God had given us; but he told us to hate to prefer this life to the life in heaven –in Gods Kingdom, and as said in post 77, 86 and 91, we are encouraged to enjoy this life too. Remember also Deuteronomy 12,18-21: “…before the LORD, you shall make merry over all your undertakings… when you wish meat for food, you may eat it at will, to your heart’s desire”.

Let’s be joyful – for we know GOD IS, and we are with God if we live in His word. And we will live eternally in God’s kingdom as Jesus promised in John 11,26

**

 

[Robert_Sock]

John 12:25 (New International Version)

“The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”

Bruno,

Eat, drink and be merry if you must but please keep in mind the Word of the Lord as made explicit in John 12:25. Again, it’s good to experience heavenly love and joy while in this life, but this life, in and of itself, is miserable and corrupt with the lies and deceit of Satan. Take a close look around you and see all the evil! Hate the evil and partake of the heavenly love (including brotherly love) that comes to us through Jesus Christ.

God Bless

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**None of us Christians does not know that “life, in and of itself, is miserable and corrupt with the lies and misguidance of Satan” and is was such when Jesus was laughing and enjoying the wedding of Kana John 2,10.

Tell us Robert Sock: Do you really hate life?

I just now had a mail asking me: Why do you care what Atheists think?! Remember Gal 1,10: Am I now currying favor with human beings or God?

Oh, we all do remember this letter of Paul’s to the Galatians!

But it’s our duty to invite our brethrens in the Lord to Jesus Christ. And we can’t do so, if we tell them we hate life.
No!
Romans 12,1: Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
And let’s stop being Christians who are miserable all the time. Let’s cheer up.

Actually this thread is the same as this one
Believe in God; - joyful or burdensome?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4731170&posted=1#post4731170

**