Is it good to hate this life?

[Robert_Sock]

How sad.

Withwind:

How right you are.

What I do not understand in this thread at all is the ‘withdrawal’ syndrome. “I hate life, just waiting to die here!”

Even reclusive orders spend their time in earthy battle through prayer and penance. Why the resistence to assisting this world? Why spit in the face of both God’s gift AND his directives to ‘do unto the least of these’ as you would do unto Him?

I think you’ve taken things out of context. Let me provide you with an excerpt from the Imitation of Christ once again to refresh your memory of where I’m coming from.

*. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis *

 

[MarysGirls]

I feel this thread is going in circles. Yeah, that’s why I originally left. I just figured I’d give it another go.

To hate this life does not mean we should hate others. On the contrary, to love God means we would love others. If we hate this world is to love God all the more, and do as He commands of us. I know you don’t believe in hating others. But in my mind, the two go hand in hand.

There is not a doubt in my mind that this world ought to be hated my me; however, I realizes that there are many “mansions” and that different people may be drawn to different paths in life. Sure. Hey, heaven’s a pretty big place. I imagine it’s gotta be pretty diverse.

I feel like reposting my old quotes again, but people would probably get upset at me again. You’re probably right there. If I have seemed to be upset at any time with you or anyone else, I sincerely apologize.

Take care,
Bob

It’s been a pleasure arguing with you, sir.

Nicole

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I think you’ve taken things out of context. Let me provide you with an excerpt from the Imitation of Christ once again to refresh your memory of where I’m coming from.

*. . . Many weak and foolish people, say, “See what a good life that man enjoys! He is so rich, so great, so powerful, so distinguished!” But raise your eyes to the riches of Heaven, and you will see that all the riches of this world are as nothing. All are uncertain and even burdensome, for they are never enjoyed without some anxiety or fear. The happiness of man does not consist in abundance of this world’s goods, for a modest share is sufficient for him. The more spiritual a man desires to become, the more bitter does this present life grow for him, for he sees and realizes more clearly the defects and corruptions of human nature. For to eat and drink, to wake and sleep, to rest and labour, and to be subject to all the necessities of nature is a great trouble and affliction to the devout man, who would rather be released and set free from all sin.

The inner life of man is greatly hindered in this life by the needs of the body. Thus, the Prophet devoutly prays that he may be set free from them, saying, “Lord, deliver me from my necessities!” Woe to those who refuse to recognize their own wretchedness, and doubly woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible life! For some cling so closely to it, that although by working or begging they can hardly win the bare necessities, they would yet be willing to live here for ever if it were possible, caring nothing for the Kingdom of God.

How crazy and lacking in faith are such people, who are so deeply engrossed in earthly affairs that they care for nothing but material things! These unhappy wretches will at length know to their sorrow how vile and worthless were the things that they loved. But the Saints of God and all the devoted friends of Christ paid little heed to bodily pleasures, nor to prosperity in this life, for all their hopes and aims were directed towards those good things that are eternal. Their whole desire raised them upward to things eternal and invisible, so that the love of things visible could not drag them down. My brother, do not lose hope of progress in the spiritual life; you have still time and opportunity . . .
–The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 22 Thomas à Kempis *

Faith without works is dead.

What exactly have you got against helping the poor? Even against helping your own family?

Even Christ had earthly food to eat.

 

[ready]

Loving the this life less than God is good and commanded by Jesus. Despising the vanity and worldliness in life is good too and is also commanded.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Loving the this life less than God is good and commanded by Jesus. Despising the vanity and worldliness in life is good too and is also commanded.

Also, the corruption of Satan ought to be despised. I personally believe that the corruption of Satan is far deeper in this world than most people realize. Satan is the creator of all that is evil and we ought to hate all that is evil in this life!

 

[ready]

Also, the corruption of Satan ought to be despised. I personally believe that the corruption of Satan is far deeper in this world than most people realize. Satan is the creator of all that is evil and we ought to hate all that is evil in this life!

Yes, especially the corruption of Satan ought to be despised.

 

[MarysGirls]

Also, the corruption of Satan ought to be despised. I personally believe that the corruption of Satan is far deeper in this world than most people realize. Satan is the creator of all that is evil and we ought to hate all that is evil in this life!

The corruption, yes of course. But the corrupted? That’s the part that gets me. Maybe this world is more corrupted than I realize - I am still young after all - but is that really reason enough to hate the corrupted?

 

[ready]

The corruption, yes of course. But the corrupted? That’s the part that gets me. Maybe this world is more corrupted than I realize - I am still young after all - but is that really reason enough to hate the corrupted?

I don’t think anyone on this thread has said that we should hate the corrupted. We should hate corruption with all our hearts, not people corrupted or not.

 

[juliamajor]

The corruption, yes of course. But the corrupted? That’s the part that gets me. Maybe this world is more corrupted than I realize - I am still young after all - but is that really reason enough to hate the corrupted?

Is the world so corrupted that God holds no sway? If He gave up as quickly as some of the people on this thread we’d all be doomed.Why would Jesus die for us if the world was so corrupt that it was useless.?If we are the only source of corruption why not destroy us.? Or maybe there is Hope& love. we are to practice three cardinal virtues; faith , hope and charity.I see very little of hope in this thread. I find gobs of piety but hope seems to be nil.Christians are a Easter people- to be an Easter person is to hopeful. If Christ has overcome the world, then we as His followers are empowered to do the same.If you live in splendid isolation concerned with one’s own salvation- then , boy, we’ve read but have not understood-Christ- in all His teachings, never says " to hell with saving the world-save yourselves only."If you leave a fellow human to wallow in his corruption and be damned- then you are not obeying the Great Commission.As Ezekiel was so are we to be; Watchmen to warn the corrupt of their corruption- to prevent the sinner from damnation. If we don’t try we will be held accountable for not issuing a warning like a watchman who fails to warn of an approaching enemy( see Ezekiel 33:1-20) is held accountable.
Real faith, requires action and real hope and unequivical love.

 

[juliamajor]

I don’t think anyone on this thread has said that we should hate the corrupted. We should hate corruption with all our hearts, not people corrupted or not.

Corruption is not a separate entity- you cannot have corruption without the corrupt-.By not stepping of your comfort zone-&if you worry about your own soul and give not a thought to the other souls- then the story of the “Good Samaritan” with all of its spirtitual and tangible
implications has fallen on deaf ears.
And don’t believe the majority of sinners like being sinners or set out to be sinners. There is so much pain and hate and hopelessness out there that if we don’t do anything about we become complicit but not aiding but avoiding the poor slob in the ditch on the side of the road.If you are without hope or joy how could you possible help them? Money is not enough- we are to step out and take it on the chin by putting ourselves in places of discomfort with people who discomfort you., with situations that discomfort you.

 

[roselily]

Think of Heaven :angel1:

Think of it: Troubles and, and see, some terrible things is in this world, but there the Redeemer, kind and merciful. and there is no death there.

“Those who love their life lose it, and those who hate their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”
-John 12:25

 

[juliamajor]

Think of Heaven :angel1:

Think of it: Troubles and, and see, some terrible things is in this world, but there the Redeemer, kind and merciful. and there is no death there.

“Those who love their life lose it, and those who hate their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.”
-John 12:25

That horse has been beaten to death.That verse misused and misunderstood.
In the waiting what are we to do?
What about
MT5:14
Jn16:33

 

[roselily]

That horse has been beaten to death.That verse misused and misunderstood.
In the waiting what are we to do?
What about
MT5:14
Jn16:33

I do not understand,
Why that horse?
Why that horse has been beaten to death?
Why?
why that verse misused and misunderstood?
Why?

I though that -we pray our Lord’s prayer everyday, first we pray His kingdom come! that only His kingdom come we can truly be happy, we can not have eternal happiness in this world. And death itself, which for others is the end of life, is for us merely its beginning,-the exchange of a lower for a higher happiness, a happiness less calm for one calmer and eternal.

And in Matthew 5:14-
“You are the light of the would. A city built on a hill cannot be hidden.”

John 16:33-
“I have said this to you, so that in me you may have peace. In the world you face persecution. But take courage; I have conquered the world!”

:hug1:Thank you. juliamajor , and that is my favorite Quotes from Bible too:harp:
we pray that His kingdom come soon!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

The corruption, yes of course. But the corrupted? That’s the part that gets me. Maybe this world is more corrupted than I realize - I am still young after all - but is that really reason enough to hate the corrupted?

You are quite correct.

We’re certainly not supposed to hate the corrupted (the sinner). In fact we are directed not to do so. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise; I know it’s a difficult task at best, but that is NOT what the Church teaches.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I don’t think anyone on this thread has said that we should hate the corrupted. We should hate corruption with all our hearts, not people corrupted or not.

This is correct! How do people suggest that we are hating sinners when we talk about the corruption of Satan? Again, we hate the corruption, not the sinners!

This life is constant warfare with the corruption of Satan. It’s Satan, and all his evil, that we hate.

 

[Robert_Sock]

You are quite correct.

We’re certainly not supposed to hate the corrupted (the sinner). In fact we are directed not to do so. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise; I know it’s a difficult task at best, but that is NOT what the Church teaches.

Sailor;

Nobody here hates the sinner!!! It’s Satan, and all his evil work, that we hate!!!

John 12:25 (New International Version)
The man who loves his life will lose it . . .

 

[ready]

This is correct! How do people suggest that we are hating sinners when we talk about the corruption of Satan? Again, we hate the corruption, not the sinners!

This life is constant warfare with the corruption of Satan. It’s Satan, and all his evil, that we hate.

You are absolutely right, Robert! Nobody on this thread ever spoke of hating people. We both despise corruption itself, not people who suffer from it.

 

[MarysGirls]

This is correct! How do people suggest that we are hating sinners when we talk about the corruption of Satan? Again, we hate the corruption, not the sinners!

This life is constant warfare with the corruption of Satan. It’s Satan, and all his evil, that we hate.

I know you’re not talking about sinners. But can’t you see it’s by the same token that we cannot hate the world? If you hate the corruption and not the corrupted when it comes to sinners, why do you hate the corruption and the corrupted when it comes to this corrupted world? When I wake up in the morning and look out my window I see the beautiful sky and sun above, shining on the green leaves of the trees. And I think of what a wonderful Creator we have, who has created such a beautiful world as this! When I see a sunset, shining with gold, red, pink, and orange; when I smell the fragrance of a rose; when I hear the birds worshiping in their own way amoung the treetops; when I feel the wind blowing in my face; I worship the Lord, for He has indeed created a wonderful world. Despite the corruption that you speak of, the goodness of the Creator still shines through the created!!!

:harp:

 

[Robert_Sock]

I know you’re not talking about sinners. But can’t you see it’s by the same token that we cannot hate the world? If you hate the corruption and not the corrupted when it comes to sinners, why do you hate the corruption and the corrupted when it comes to this corrupted world? When I wake up in the morning and look out my window I see the beautiful sky and sun above, shining on the green leaves of the trees. And I think of what a wonderful Creator we have, who has created such a beautiful world as this! When I see a sunset, shining with gold, red, pink, and orange; when I smell the fragrance of a rose; when I hear the birds worshiping in their own way amoung the treetops; when I feel the wind blowing in my face; I worship the Lord, for He has indeed created a wonderful world. Despite the corruption that you speak of, the goodness of the Creator still shines through the created!!!

:harp:

Sadly, we live in world filled with good and evil; there’s no questions about that. If only we lived in a world filled with only the good that God created. But sin came into the world through Adam and Eve. The evil that is in the world spoils what is good; we cannot separate the two. Again, turn your attention to the riches of Heaven and see the glory that God has planned! There will be no comparison between the good in Heaven and the good of this world. Eat, drink, and be merry if you must, and don’t forget to smell the flowers, but know that you are living in a perverted world filled with the corruption of Satan.

Bottom line: This world is to be hated in comparison to Heaven and the World to Come. God alone is GOOD when it comes to our pitiful world.

 

[MarysGirls]

Sadly, we live in world filled with good and evil; there’s no questions about that. If only we lived in a world filled with only the good that God created. But sin came into the world through Adam and Eve. The evil that is in the world spoils what is good; we cannot separate the two. Again, turn your attention to the riches of Heaven and see the glory that God has planned! There will be no comparison between the good in Heaven and the good of this world. Eat, drink, and be merry if you must, and don’t forget to smell the flowers, but know that you are living in a perverted world filled with the corruption of Satan.

Bottom line: This world is to be hated in comparison to Heaven and the World to Come. God alone is GOOD when it comes to our pitiful world.

Believe me, I very much look foward to the riches of the kingdom to come, I just don’t see a reason to hate this world while waiting.
If you would only change the word ‘hate’ into the words love less in your last statement, we would be in perfect agreement. As it is, I suppose this is a classic example of one seeing a glass half empty and the other seeing it as half full. Neither of us can refute or change the way of the other because, in a way, each is right.
That being said, I must add that, because of my naturally stubborn nature, I’m not giving up yet. I admire your persistence on this matter and hope you won’t be offended by my own.