Is it heretical to pray that Jews continue to follow the Old Covenant?

[una_fides]

For 2000 years, the Church has prayed for the conversion of the Jews to the Catholic faith.

The Traditional Good Friday prayer for the Jews used prior to 1955 was as follows:Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts (2 Corinthians 3:13-16); so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. :: Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.In 1970, to appease the complaisant Jews, Pope Paul VI revised the Good Friday prayer as follows:Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant. :: Almighty and eternal God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity. Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.Notice the difference. In the first, the Jews are faithless and blind and are being prayed for to convert to Christ; whereas in the second they are described as faithful and are being prayed for to continue to follow their Old Covenant.

I cannot reconcile this new prayer with the constant teaching of the Church that through the Old Covenant no one can be justified and that the Old Covenant actually brings condemnation not salvation (Gal 2:16; 2 Cor 3:6-9, 13-16). How can the Church pray for the Jews to continue to practice their false religion??

I am at a loss for any adequate theological explanation and hope this thread can help shed some light. I’ve heard some say this prayer is heretical. Is that true, or does it have an orthodox explanation?

 

[thunderballs75]

By “growing in faithfulness to the Covenant” they mean to pray that they will grow into the belief of Christ and His fulfillment of the Covenant.

God promised to give them their Messiah. Their Messiah has come, so we should pray that they will grow into loving Him. In my opinion, this quote is one of the few from the NO that presents the teaching quite clearly. It clearly asks that God will bring the Jews to the fullness of redemption, which is Christ.

 

[diggerdomer]

For 2000 years, the Church has prayed for the conversion of the Jews to the Catholic faith. The Traditional Good Friday prayer for the Jews used prior to 1955 was as follows:Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts (2 Corinthians 3:13-16); so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. :: Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.In 1970, to appease the complaisant Jews, Pope Paul VI revised the Good Friday prayer as follows:Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant. :: Almighty and eternal God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity. Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.Notice the difference. In the first, the Jews are faithless and blind and are being prayed for to convert to Christ; whereas in the second they are described as faithful and are being prayed for to continue to be Jews.

I cannot reconcile this new prayer with the constant teaching of the Church that through the Old Covenant no one can be justified and that the Old Covenant actually brings condemnation not salvation (Gal 2:16; 2 Cor 3:6-9, 13-16). How can the Church pray for the Jews to remain faithful to the Old Covenant??

I am at a loss for any adequate theological explanation and hope this thread can help shed some light. I’ve heard some say this prayer is heretical. Is that true, or does it have an orthodox explanation?

I’m not sure Pope Paul VI did what he did for the reasons you claim. Do you have a source, from him preferably, that says he did it to appease complaisant Jews?

Regardless, the Church approved this prayer, so it’s acceptable. Note there have been recent changes (e.g. to the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults) to ensure everyone understands that while we consider God’s covenant with the Jews as eternal and valid this in no way undermines Catholic teaching that Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation. See usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-174.shtml

So regarding your subject line, imho it’s not necessarily heretical.

Hope this helps.

 

[una_fides]

By “growing in faithfulness to the Covenant” they mean to pray that they will grow into the belief of Christ and His fulfillment of the Covenant.

God promised to give them their Messiah. Their Messiah has come, so we should pray that they will grow into loving Him. In my opinion, this quote is one of the few from the NO that presents the teaching quite clearly. It clearly asks that God will bring the Jews to the fullness of redemption, which is Christ.

I thought of that; however, the English says that they would “continue to grow…in faithfulness to his covenant.” If the Jews are *continuing *in their faithfulness, then it is clear that this covenant is not the New because the Jews are not faithful to the New but are “faithless” as the Church has always before prayed. Unless we have a poor translation from the Latin, this prayer in English seems to clearly be saying that the Jews continue to follow the Old Covenant, for it is clear that the Jews as a whole have never embraced the New. The Jews cannot continue to grow in their love for Jesus as Messiah because they are “faithless” in that regard and deny that Jesus is the Messiah and that he is God incarnate.

 

[thunderballs75]

IMO, “continue to grow” means that they have currently not finished. They have not reached the final step. You continue to work on your essay so that you will finish. So if they *truly *continue to grow in their *faithfulness *(not in their faith) to the covenant, they will find Christ, their Messiah. They are being unfaithful, but if they grow in their faithfulness, they will find Jesus, the Divine Son.

Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s just what it seems like to me. Peace.

 

[una_fides]

IMO, “continue to grow” means that they have currently not finished. They have not reached the final step. You continue to work on your essay so that you will finish. So if they *truly *continue to grow in their *faithfulness *(not in their faith) to the covenant, they will find Christ, their Messiah. They are being unfaithful, but if they grow in their faithfulness, they will find Jesus, the Divine Son.

Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s just what it seems like to me. Peace.

It’s an interesting spin, and it would certainly be the easy way out to interpret it that way. However, without being able to consult the Latin, and based solely on the English, it just doesn’t seem to work.
How can they “continue in faithfulness” to the New Covenant if they are not at all faithful to that covenant? The traditional prayer says they are “faithless.” The only thing they are faithful to is their Old Covenant but not the New, so they are unable to “grow” in a faith in the New Covenant that they do not possess. Do you see what I’m saying?

Does anyone have access to the Latin translation of this prayer by chance or know where it can be found?

 

[twf]

I think it’s just a different emphasis. The Jews are faithless in that they have rejected the fulfillment of their own covenant: faith in the Messiah. All Jews lack the fulness of faith, but many do have a sincere, innocent faith in the true Revelations that were given to Father Abraham and Moses. This faith in the Old Covenant can, if sincere, grow and be fulfilled (as St Paul’s was) in Christ and His Holy Church.

 

[thunderballs75]

Remember, there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Some Jews may be sincere (though most are “secular” Jews these days), and receive God’s mercy. But if they are saved, it is not their “Old Covenant” (none exists, because Jesus is the fulfillment of this Covenant) but their invincible ignorance of the fulfillment, which is the New and Everlasting Covenant which Isaiah prophesied and which Our Lord Jesus gave us. Their “Covenant” they have is not saving, but God in His mercy may pardon them for their false beliefs.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Seems to be just another way of telling people that Vat II is a false council or heretical.

If those under the old covenant followed it to its conclusion, they would end up at the same place St. Paul did. Removing the liturgical prayer doesn’t proceed to the conclusion that you indicate, that we pray for the Jews to follow the old covenant. This is a huge stretch, the Church teaches as much:

Jesus affirms (ibid. 10:16) that “there shall be one flock and one shepherd”. Church and Judaism cannot then be seen as two parallel ways of salvation and the Church must witness to Christ as the Redeemer for all, “while maintaining the strictest respect for religious liberty in line with the teaching of the Second Vatican Council (Declaration Dignitatis Humanae)” (Guidelines and Suggestions, I).

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/relations-jews-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19820306_jews-judaism_en.html

The Church was right once but now it isn’t is in opposition to Jesus’ admonition that the gates of hell won’t prevail against it. This indicates the teaching is protected. People losing their faith is another matter, “…However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:8

 

[una_fides]

Seems to be just another way of telling people that Vat II is a false council or heretical.
…
The Church was right once but now it isn’t is in opposition to Jesus’ admonition that the gates of hell won’t prevail against it. This indicates the teaching is protected. People losing their faith is another matter, “…However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:8

Actually, this prayer did not come from Vatican II; it was construed and inserted into the liturgy by Paul VI, so any implications would be on him and not the Council.

 

[una_fides]

Remember, there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Some Jews may be sincere (though most are “secular” Jews these days), and receive God’s mercy. But if they are saved, it is not their “Old Covenant” (none exists, because Jesus is the fulfillment of this Covenant) but their invincible ignorance of the fulfillment, which is the New and Everlasting Covenant which Isaiah prophesied and which Our Lord Jesus gave us. Their “Covenant” they have is not saving, but God in His mercy may pardon them for their false beliefs.

I’m quite familiar with the Church’s teaching on Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus. The following is an infallible decree of the Church:

The Council of Florence (A.D. 1438-1445) From Cantate Domino — Papal Bull of Pope Eugene IV:
(Infallible General Council & Ex Cathedra papal declaration) ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM
“The sacrosanct Roman Church…firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

 

[una_fides]

Remember, there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. Some Jews may be sincere (though most are “secular” Jews these days), and receive God’s mercy. But if they are saved, it is not their “Old Covenant” (none exists, because Jesus is the fulfillment of this Covenant) but their invincible ignorance of the fulfillment, which is the New and Everlasting Covenant which Isaiah prophesied and which Our Lord Jesus gave us. Their “Covenant” they have is not saving, but God in His mercy may pardon them for their false beliefs.

Just because a particular Jew may have never heard of Christ and be invincibly ignorant of Him and His Church does not guarantee he will be saved either, nor would following the Old Covenant produce salvation. He can only be saved if before his death he be converted to the Church. Such an invincibly ignorant person, which we can presume would be quite rare for a Jew to have never heard of Christ and never doubted his own religion and rare for them to not be in a state guilty of sin, if he were to live a very holy life, St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that such a person could potentially be given a special revelation by God before death concerning the truths of the Catholic faith so that he could enter by desire. Whether God bring that revelation by an angel or by a special infusion of knowledge, the person would have to acknowledge Christ before death and have faith in Him and a desire animated by perfect charity to enter his Church. Any less desire would not produce the effect. Perfect charity too is also quite rarely found among Catholics that know of its necessity, so how much more rare in the “faithless Jews.”

Do you see my point? Either the Jews are faithless and on a path to destruction as the Church has taught in the past, or they are saved by the Old Covenant, which is what this prayer seems to say and is what Cardinal Kasper often says. Can you find me anything before Vatican II that says that Jews can be saved following the Old Covenant? If not, then it seems that we are dealing with a new teaching.

 

[bilop]

For 2000 years, the Church has prayed for the conversion of the Jews to the Catholic faith.

The Traditional Good Friday prayer for the Jews used prior to 1955 was as follows:Let us pray also for the faithless Jews: that Almighty God may remove the veil from their hearts (2 Corinthians 3:13-16); so that they too may acknowledge Jesus Christ our Lord. :: Almighty and eternal God, who dost not exclude from thy mercy even Jewish faithlessness: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people; that acknowledging the light of thy Truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same our Lord Jesus Christ, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God, for ever and ever. Amen.In 1970, to appease the complaisant Jews, Pope Paul VI revised the Good Friday prayer as follows:Let us pray for the Jewish people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may continue to grow in the love of his name and in faithfulness to his covenant. :: Almighty and eternal God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity. Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.Notice the difference. In the first, the Jews are faithless and blind and are being prayed for to convert to Christ; whereas in the second they are described as faithful and are being prayed for to continue to follow their Old Covenant.

I cannot reconcile this new prayer with the constant teaching of the Church that through the Old Covenant no one can be justified and that the Old Covenant actually brings condemnation not salvation (Gal 2:16; 2 Cor 3:6-9, 13-16). How can the Church pray for the Jews to continue to practice their false religion??

I am at a loss for any adequate theological explanation and hope this thread can help shed some light. I’ve heard some say this prayer is heretical. Is that true, or does it have an orthodox explanation?

If the prayer meant that we wanted Jews not to convert, then it would be heretical. However, I believe the prayer does not say that.

The new prayer is couced in politically correct language, I’ll grant, and I do prefer the older one. However, when it says “continue to grow in faithfulness to His covenant”, it can only mean accepting the New Covenant, b/c that is the only Covenant God has.

The Jews have accepted part of God’s convenant, the Old, including the moral law, etc. Now they need to “grow in faithfulless” and accept the rest, i.e. Christ.

God Bless

 

[una_fides]

If the prayer meant that we wanted Jews not to convert, then it would be heretical. However, I believe the prayer does not say that.

The new prayer is couced in politically correct language, I’ll grant, and I do prefer the older one. However, when it says “continue to grow in faithfulness to His covenant”, it can only mean accepting the New Covenant, b/c that is the only Covenant God has.

The Jews have accepted part of God’s convenant, the Old, including the moral law, etc. Now they need to “grow in faithfulless” and accept the rest, i.e. Christ.

God Bless

Again, I think we’re spinning the English a little bit here to fit what we want it to say. It says “continue to grow” so that means that the Jews are already in a state of growth in faithfulness. They cannot continue in something they are not already in. What is it that the Jews are already faithful to? Their Old Covenant.
I don’t understand what you are saying that there is only one covenant. Can you show me where the Church teaches that there is not an Old Covenant and a New Covenant?

I think we both agree that the wording is vague and can at the very least very easily be understood in the manner in which I think it makes most sense to interpret it based on the English wording used. When you look at how many bishops interpret and view the Jews and their relationship to God, it really makes you wonder if this prayer is praying that the Jews continue to be Jews faithful to their own covenant.

 

[una_fides]

**Adult catechism going into second printing
Newer version clarifies teaching on Jewish covenant
Change approved in summer 2008 by bishops **
WASHINGTON—The Vatican has given its “recognitio” to a change in the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults, which is set to go into a second printing.

The change clarifies Catholic teaching on God’s covenant with the Jews. The first version, in explaining relations with the Jews, stated, “Thus the covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.” The revised text states, “To the Jewish people, whom God first chose to hear his Word, ‘belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ.’ (Romans 9: 4-5; cf. CCC, no 839)

  The change was approved by the U.S. bishops following the  bishops’ 2008 June meeting in Orlando, Florida.
  
   The clarification is not a change in the Church’s teaching."

usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-174.shtml

This catechism clearly states that the Old Covenant is eternally valid for the Jews. Again so to interpret this English prayer, that the Jews “continue to grow in faithfulness to his covenant” the only covenant that the Jews are considered faithful to is the OLD covenant that was made to them. The New Testament makes very clear distinctions between the Old and New Covenants and that the Old brings death and the New brings life and to follow the Old and its laws is to bring condemnation upon one’s self.

 

[una_fides]

Here are some teachings from a bishops document Covenant and Mission. To clarify, there was a document released from the USCCB that tried to explain and clarify some of the “ambiguities” of the document; however, their reply did not mention anything clarifying the issues in the quotes below:

             "Knowledge of the history of Jewish life in Christendom also causes such biblical texts as Acts 5:33-39 to be read with new eyes. In that passage the Pharisee Gamaliel declares that only undertakings of divine origin can endure. **If this New Testament principle is considered by Christians today to be valid for Christianity, then it must logically also hold for *post-biblical Judaism***. Rabbinic Judaism, which **developed after the destruction of the Temple, *must also be "of God."***

             From the point of view of the Catholic Church, Judaism is a religion that springs from divine revelation. As Cardinal Kasper noted, "God’s grace, which is the grace of Jesus Christ according to our faith, is available to all. Therefore, **the Church believes that Judaism, i.e. the faithful response of the Jewish people to God’s irrevocable covenant, is salvific for them, because God is faithful to his promises**."21

             Thus, while the Catholic Church regards the saving act of Christ as central to the process of human salvation for all, it also acknowledges that **Jews already dwell in a saving covenant with God**."
                 [bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/resources/documents/interreligious/ncs_usccb120802.htm](http://www.bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/resources/documents/interreligious/ncs_usccb120802.htm)

So again how exactly are we to interpret this new Good Friday prayer?

 

[chosen_people]

Now it may just be that as an Israeli my mastery of the english language is too rudimentary, however it would seem to me that you meant to say that it was a complaisant Pope who sought to appease the Jews as opposed to what you wrote: that the the change in the prayer was meant to appease complaisant Jews.

Now I have never understood the notion that just because Catholics have not yet reached a point where they are able to grasp the concept of God without giving Him a human form and representing Him in statues and pictures and just because they have not reached a point where they are able to grasp Torah in its fullest and widest sense, that they should be denied access to the world to come. This indeed is the position of Judaism. A gentile is more likely to get into the world to come as he/she has only to follow the seven Noahide commandments.

On the other I am unable to fathom the Catholic attitude that it should be pleasing either in the eyes of Jews or of God their prayers aimed to interfere with the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people.

 

[Seamus_L]

When did the Catholic Church first say that the Jews still had an eternal covenant with God ?

 

[diggerdomer]

Here are some teachings from a bishops document Covenant and Mission. To clarify, there was a document released from the USCCB that tried to explain and clarify some of the “ambiguities” of the document; however, their reply did not mention anything clarifying the issues in the quotes below:

So again how exactly are we to interpret this new Good Friday prayer?

The USCCB recently got approval for a change to the US Catholic Catechism for Adults:

Prior version:

The Catholic Church also acknowledges her special relationship to the Jewish people. The Second Vatican Council declared that “this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts he makes nor of the calls he issues.” (LG, no. 16) When God called Abraham out of Ur, he promised to make of him a “great nation.” This began the history of God revealing his divine plan of salvation to a chosen people with whom he made enduring covenants. Thus the covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them. At the same time, “remembering, then, her common heritage with the Jews, and moved not by any political consideration, but solely by the religious motivation of Christian charity, she [the Church] deplores all hatred, persecutions, and displays of anti-Semitism leveled at any time or from any source against the Jews.” (Second Vatican Council, Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions [Nostra Aetate; NA], no. 4)

New version:

The Catholic Church also acknowledges her special relationship to the Jewish people. The Second Vatican Council declared that “this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts he makes nor of the calls he issues.” (LG, no. 16) When God called Abraham out of Ur, he promised to make of him a “great nation.” **To the Jewish people, whom God first chose to hear his Word, “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ.” (Rom 9: 4-5; cf. CCC, no. 839) **At the same time, “remembering, then, her common heritage with the Jews, and moved not by any political consideration, but solely by the religious motivation of Christian charity, she [the Church] deplores all hatred, persecutions, and displays of anti-Semitism leveled at any time or from any source against the Jews.” (Second Vatican Council, Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions [Nostra Aetate; NA], no. 4)

SO, my understanding is that the Church felt the need to both affirm God’s covenant with the Jewish people and yet maintain that Christ is the fulfillment of God’s covenants. Seems as though there is a bit of a tension here.

 

[EasterJoy]

Sts. Peter and Paul did not abandon the covenant, but recognized its fulfillment in Christ.

I think a Jew who remains faithful to God’s covenant, who is faithful to worship and making his life into a witness of God’s love for the world is closer to full conversion than a Jew who is Jewish in name only, or is Jewish as an ethnic identity, or who abandons Judaism entirely for some other religion or philosophy. Love of and dedication to God cannot possibly be an impediment to eventually learning the love of Christ.

Therefore, I don’t see any conflict between a prayer for their continuing fidelity and a prayer for their conversion. To pray for their continued fidelity recognizes that they do worship the one True God. This they do, even if they don’t recognize that the fulfillment of God’s promises have come to pass.

To pray that someone in the water will continue to keep his head above the water is not at odds with a prayer that he will later be taken into the boat. Continuing to breathe is a good thing, and not an impediment to rescue. Besides, it doesn’t do any good to run rescues in a way that drives the victim away from the boat, even if you know there is a limit to how long one can remain in the water without rescue. I think this is the Church’s thinking, too. There is no implied heresy in that.