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Al_Masetti
Guest
Suggest children be kept away from libraries. Shakespeare. The 900 section (all history and full of violence).
Biography… lots of violence there also.
- Status
Biography… lots of violence there also.
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Penitus
Guest
PJPII listed Nosferatu as one of his favorite movies of all time.
For that day and age, Nosferatu was a horrorific and violent film. I know PJPII’s taste in movies does not reflect Church teaching, but it leans to the fact that some scary things can be entertaining.
For that day and age, Nosferatu was a horrorific and violent film. I know PJPII’s taste in movies does not reflect Church teaching, but it leans to the fact that some scary things can be entertaining.
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Kirane
Guest
Al Masetti:
Is pornography in film or reading OK or not (and why) according to modern day Catholic teaching? Pornographic violence is included in this. Would it be immoral to enjoy pornography in entertainment? Say pornographic violence in the last question? I still think it is wrong and it is better to cultivate a peaceful and loving attitude toward our neighbors. I think it is wrong to feed someone a hateful violent attitude toward people. After all, every person is made in the image of God so why do the Catholics here want to cultivate a hateful violent attitude toward anyone and why are you so opposed to the nonviolent attitude of people like Ghandi? I think that it is right and helpful to everyone if humanity would work toward cultivating a peaceful, non-violent and respecktful attitude toward people and life.
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Alfie
Guest
Yes, and so is watching the WWF and and the other wrestling garbage on TV. I can’t believe there was a thread on this forum talking about wrestling and how wonderful it is. That is just another example of how Catholics and Protestants differ on what defines sin. A born again Christian would not approve of the immoral behavior in the wrestling world. All these comments about how many Christians are in the wrestling world is a big joke. They cannot be Christians and be part of that type of entertainment.Two examples that immediately come to mind are computer gamers that purposefully go over-the-top in terms of violence, and those zombie horror films where the only real appeal is seeing zombies get blown apart. Is there anything wrong with enjoying this sort of entertainment (not disproportionately so, but occasionally), and if so, what, specifically?
Thanks in advance
No, if you watch re-runs of F-Troop or old westerns where the violence is implied but not graphic. We all know the Bible is loaded with acts of violence. But the violence in the Bible has to do with historical events that happened in Israel. Another reason for the violence in the Bible is to show people what happens to people when they live sinfull lives.
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cheeto1
Guest
Al Masetti:
for properly instructing a child. You must be selective even in the
Bible as far as children are concerned. For instance, David and
Goliath is a fairly popular children’s story, but you notice they
always seem to leave out that part about “little” David cutting off Goliath’s head and parading it around on a big stick.
Shakespeare is highly over-rated in his appropriateness for
children.
I don’t get the idea that it’s o.k. to enjoy violence if it’s history.
Then what is the reason that they don’t televise executions?
It’s history. I don’t think you would enjoy the violence of a movie quite as much if it were your loved one being depicted.
I agree. Just because it’s in a book doesn’t mean it’s appropriate
for properly instructing a child. You must be selective even in the
Bible as far as children are concerned. For instance, David and
Goliath is a fairly popular children’s story, but you notice they
always seem to leave out that part about “little” David cutting off Goliath’s head and parading it around on a big stick.
Shakespeare is highly over-rated in his appropriateness for
children.
I don’t get the idea that it’s o.k. to enjoy violence if it’s history.
Then what is the reason that they don’t televise executions?
It’s history. I don’t think you would enjoy the violence of a movie quite as much if it were your loved one being depicted.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Are we allowed to show films of the Nazi death camps?
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Kirane
Guest
Al Masetti:
The question of the thread was whether or not it is immoral to enjoy this violence. In my opinion, it is immoral, sick and wrong to enjoy the violence and desperate conditions as existed in the Nazi death camps. As I said, I am in favor of cultivating a peaceful, loving and respectful attitude toward my fellow man, and to see him as the image of God, and I think it is seriously wrong and sick to enjoy and have fun when someone is suffering horrific humiliation, pain and torture such as was seen in the Nazi death camps.
Since when?
The subject line of this thread makes no mention of Nazis.
In fact, the subject line deals only with ‘violence in entertainment’
This could be the majority of Pulp Fiction to watching Wile E Coyote getting crushed with a boulder.
Given the loose wording here, I believe my original opinion to still be proper, that the line for immoral enjoyment would be when the enjoyment of the violence crosses over to the enjoyment of violence that we know to be real.
Most violent movies do not fit this catagory. They portray unreal violence against unreal characters in an unreal setting.
The suspension of disbelief needs to be fairly strong and persistant.
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Kirane
Guest
That was what I was trying to point out. That the question was whether or not it was immoral to enjoy violence in entertainment. Now they ask about Nazi death camps. My response is that it is sick, disgusting and wrong to enjoy violence in Nazi death camps or to enjoy such film as entertainment. You seem to insist that entertainment must be fictional, which I do not think is true. Not all entertainment has to be fictional.
I repeat that I stand in favor of cultivating a nonviolent, peaceful and respectful attitude toward my fellow man and I am opposed to the glorification of violence.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Is it ok to watch violence if you don’t enjoy it?
How much on a percentage basis is it if there is “partial enjoyment”?
Is there a difference between “enjoyment” and merely “finding it interesting”?
How much on a percentage basis is it if there is “partial enjoyment”?
Is there a difference between “enjoyment” and merely “finding it interesting”?
Actually, I do not.
I know well that not all of entertainment value is fictional.
But if someone were to find violence entertaining, the immorality of such I would base entirely on wether or not the violence were, in fact, fictional.
Wouldn’t someone feel a little odd going to confession for enjoying an episode of the X Files?
But I could readily see someone going to confession for finding the torture and death of Christ in The Passion of the Christ entertaining.
Likewise, I coinsider it a fairly sick individual to find the violence in Schindler’s List entertaining, but I would not think twice of the violence in Starship Troopers.
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Kirane
Guest
So you make a distinction between fictional are real violence when you are dealing with pornographic violence. Should one make this same distinction when considering the morality of pornographic sex entertainment?
Pornographic violence???
I do not believe I have heard of such a thing.
As far as pornographic sex entertainment (using the word loosely here), you would have to start another thread for the answers there. This thread is questioning the morality of enjoying violent entertainment.
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Kirane
Guest
Another thread would not work because I was trying to draw a parallel between enjoyment of the two types of entertaintment and show that they are both wrong, even though they might be fictional. The overlap with this thread would be too much to justifiy its existence as a separate thread.
Overlap?
I have always looked at sex and violence to be two seperate items. Not alike, or even similar. I have seen various feminist groups try to paint sex as violence, but have never placed any stock in the theory.
I am still waiting for your definition of Pornographic violence. Like I said, I have never heard of it.
Do you confess enjoyment of TV shows if they contain violence?
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Jeanette_L
Guest
What do the Scriptures give us in answer to what we are to be filling our minds with?
**Philippians 4:7-8 (just one quick example)
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.**
I think that we need to be constantly aware that whatever we subject ourselves to, we are subjecting Christ himself to the same, because he resides in us. If you would be ashamed to be viewing gratuitous violence, whether in movie form or in game form, the acts which denegrate the value of human beings, if Christ were a guest in your home and he were sitting in the room next to you and your engagement in these violent entertainments would prick your conscience, or make you uneasy, I think it is safe to say, you should not be viewing them at all.
This should apply to anything of questionable moral content, whether violence, or sexual content, or the denegration of humanity in any form. We are to guard our hearts, our sensitivities, so that we can be more like Christ, knowing what offends God, what hurts his heart, and also what delights Him. That should be our goal at all times.
**Philippians 4:7-8 (just one quick example)
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things.**
I think that we need to be constantly aware that whatever we subject ourselves to, we are subjecting Christ himself to the same, because he resides in us. If you would be ashamed to be viewing gratuitous violence, whether in movie form or in game form, the acts which denegrate the value of human beings, if Christ were a guest in your home and he were sitting in the room next to you and your engagement in these violent entertainments would prick your conscience, or make you uneasy, I think it is safe to say, you should not be viewing them at all.
This should apply to anything of questionable moral content, whether violence, or sexual content, or the denegration of humanity in any form. We are to guard our hearts, our sensitivities, so that we can be more like Christ, knowing what offends God, what hurts his heart, and also what delights Him. That should be our goal at all times.
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Marquette
Guest
Jeanette L:
How is watching a violent film or playing a violent video game making anyone closer to Jesus? How is that peaceable? I will add another verse to Jeanette’s:
James 3:17-18 “BUT the wisdom from above is first PURE, then PEACEABLE, GENTLE, REASONABLE, FULL OF MERCY AND GOOD FRUITS, UNWAVERING, WITHOUT HYPOCRISY. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in PEACE by those who MAKE PEACE.”
So my question to you is: WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR WISDOM FROM?
Jeanette here just stole my thunder. She expresses my sentiments exactly and I had my Bible open ready to type up the very same verses.
How is watching a violent film or playing a violent video game making anyone closer to Jesus? How is that peaceable? I will add another verse to Jeanette’s:
James 3:17-18 “BUT the wisdom from above is first PURE, then PEACEABLE, GENTLE, REASONABLE, FULL OF MERCY AND GOOD FRUITS, UNWAVERING, WITHOUT HYPOCRISY. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in PEACE by those who MAKE PEACE.”
So my question to you is: WHERE ARE YOU GETTING YOUR WISDOM FROM?
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Jeanette_L
Guest
Sorry, Marquette, didn’t mean to beat you to the draw! I had to scramble myself for that passage, I used to have it memorized (a product of my Baptist High School upbringing, of which I am grateful), but I couldn’t remember which epistle. You came up with another great example from Scripture.
The Bible is filled with references concerning our being on guard against temptation, whether it be physical or mental or emotional, any which are contrary to purity. And sometimes subjecting ourselves to visual stimulation that glorifies violence committed against others, or sexual activity outside of marriage, tend to desensitize us to the offensiveness of these things to the Spirit of God.
I know some people grudgingly say that all of this means that nothing in life can be enjoyed, (did someone say Shakespeare?
) but that is not the case. Christ enjoyed his life to the fullest, so much so that he was accused of being a glutton and a drunkard and hanging around with the wrong crowd. But he always used wisdom, temperance, common sense, and he was always in tune with the promptings of the Holy Spirit. That’s what he wants from us in following his example. Live life! But be wise and don’t open yourself up to something that may cause a stumble for you somewhere down the road, one you can’t even conceive of yet. It always starts with a crack in the armor somewhere.- Status