Is it immoral to enjoy violence in entertainment?

[vz71]

It must be the responsibility of the parents to curtail time spent in front of video games. No one else can.

But also I am wondering exactly how much is too much…
Yes, there are obvious extremes, but this does not give a decent guideline. While I feel certain that the active role in street crime/violence that seems glorified in many games can’t be good, I wonder if it really is a problem…

In the early 80’s the same arguments were being made of video games, AD&D, MTV, etc…
What came of the video games?
Some of us involved in the video games gained rather lucrative careers in the computer field.
What came of AD&D?
Some bad movies, not much else.
What of MTV?
Still catering to the same audience, likely never to go beyond that.

In short, I believe trends come and go. What is likely to come of the hyper-violent games like Grand Theft Auto?
Not much, they will last a few of years and then fade into distant memory.

It is ultimately the responsibility of the parents to set up limits as to what should and should not be viewed/played.
Barring that, well, to borrow a quote that seems to fit rather well, “this too shall pass.”

Z

 

[Kirane]

vz71:

If there is a deadening effect, then we could readily interpret the exposure to be ‘bad’ If no deadening effect, ‘not bad’.
Of course, we would then need a means of measuring this deadening effect that is spoken of…

How about being shot to death? Would that qualify as a means of measuring a deadening effect? For example, there were two rival record labels for rap music: one called Bad Boy and the other called Death Row Records. The individual BIG of Bad Boy had hit rap songs such as “You’re nobody Til somebody Kills you,” etc. The feud between the two record companies reached a certain point when Tupac Shakur of Death Row Records was found shot to death in Las Vegas in September 1996, and Biggie or BIG of Bad Boy Records was found shot to death in Los Angeles in March 1997.These were individuals who sang violent gang rap music.

 

[vz71]

Kirane:

How about being shot to death? Would that qualify as a means of measuring a deadening effect?

Considering the number of times you have pulled my own words out of their proper context, I suppose I should consider this par for the course.

How about you go back several pages and actually read the post.
The post has nothing whatsover to do with violence in the rap music culture, it has to do with movie and TV show violence.

Placed within its proper context, there is nothing wrong with what I stated, and I stand by it.

:twocents:

Z

 

[Kirane]

vz71:

Considering the number of times you have pulled my own words out of their proper context, I suppose I should consider this par for the course.

How about you go back several pages and actually read the post.
The post has nothing whatsover to do with violence in the rap music culture, it has to do with movie and TV show violence.

Placed within its proper context, there is nothing wrong with what I stated, and I stand by it.

:twocents:

Z

The topic was violence in entertainment. I was bringing up an example of rap music (a form of entertainment) with violent lyrics.

 

[Kirane]

vz71:

The post has nothing whatsover to do with violence in the rap music culture, it has to do with movie and TV show violence.
Z

Well, then what ould you say about the brutal murder of an 11 year old San Bernadino girl who died in a spray of gang bullets on November 13, 2005, and the statement of the Rev. Reginald Beamon, San Bernadino leader of Mynesha’s circle (named after the 11 year old girl who was brutally murdered, Mynesha Crenshaw):“The violence we see in movies and hear in our music helps perpetuate the violence that permeates our society.” “What we put in our body is what we get out. If we put violence in, we get violence out.”

 

[vz71]

My sincere apologies…

It appeared to me (and to others I am certain) that you were placing a reply to a response I had made on post #71.

vz71:

Might I suggest a judgement based upon the individuals own responses? If there is a deadening effect, then we could readily interpret the exposure to be ‘bad’ If no deadening effect, ‘not bad’.
Of course, we would then need a means of measuring this deadening effect that is spoken of…

Since this response was made directly to another posting, made by Jeanette L, concerning the enjoyment of movies and how we could judge movie violence:
Jeanette l:

I think the foolproof test would be, to put a very holy, pure soul in front of a movie screen and see their reaction to some of the violence we are discussing, even some of the violence we think more innocent. If it grieves them deeply, you can be sure it is something to be wary of. The fact that we who continually expose ourselves to it without effect just shows the deadening it has already done to our souls, even if we think it is only make believe.

I am sure you can understand why I would believe you were pulling my own responses out of their proper context.

If it truly was not your intention to pull my words out of context, my apologies.

:twocents:

Z

 

[vz71]

Kirane:

Well, then what ould you say about the brutal murder of an 11 year old San Bernadino girl who died in a spray of gang bullets on November 13, 2005, and the statement of the Rev. Reginald Beamon, San Bernadino leader of Mynesha’s circle (named after the 11 year old girl who was brutally murdered, Mynesha Crenshaw):“The violence we see in movies and hear in our music helps perpetuate the violence that permeates our society.” “What we put in our body is what we get out. If we put violence in, we get violence out.”

I would say that the murder was a tragic event.
And would agree that Rev. Reginald Beamon is entitled to his opinion.

But I believe a gang related shooting would have more to do with a turf war or drugs then with whatever violence was on the movie screen at the time.
The Rev. does have a point, “What we put in our body is what we get out.” But you need to look more closely at what your average gang is taking in.

:twocents:

Z

 

[Kirane]

vz71:

How about you go back several pages and actually read the post.
The post has nothing whatsover to do with violence in the rap music culture, it has to do with movie and TV show violence.Z

Ok.
But there is still a point here. Why would anyone think that there is a big difference between violence in movies and violence in rap music? I don;t see what the difference would be on whether or not this type of entertainment has an effect on society. I mean one could say easily of either movie violence or violence in rap music that::“The violence we see in movies and hear in our music helps perpetuate the violence that permeates our society.”
So I don’t see the point in differentiating between violence in movies as distinct from violence in rap music. They are both forms or types of entertainment which can be enjoyed.

 

[freesoulhope]

Kirane:

Ok.
But there is still a point here. Why would anyone think that there is a big difference between violence in movies and violence in rap music? I don;t see what the difference would be on whether or not this type of entertainment has an effect on society. I mean one could say easily of either movie violence or violence in rap music that::“The violence we see in movies and hear in our music helps perpetuate the violence that permeates our society.”
So I don’t see the point in differentiating between violence in movies as distinct from violence in rap music. They are both forms or types of entertainment which can be enjoyed.

Correct, as a rapper i choose to use positive liricks, because i realise that bad boy is a “fashion of mind” that people desire to be. Where it is true that gangster rap is not the founder of violence, it most definetly inflames the heart with an erge to be violent, some more then others. Some people after watching a film like scar face, think that Tony montanna is a cool Character and aspire to be like him in nature, but you must have a desire to domminate others in the first place for it to take a hold on your mind. Violent films only inflame violence, and it depends on the person who is wacthing it. When i listen to gangster rap i begin to fantasize in my mind about being a gangster, because thats how the mind works, it is “impressionable” thats how we learn. But im stronger in the mind so i dont bring it in to reality, of late i have stop listening to music that promotes “thug” because i think about things that God doesnt like. The world gloryfys violence, therefore are children will desire to be domminating phycopaths, because thats the state of mind that is respected. Love on the other hand is luaghed at, and sombody who loves violence will find it very hard to sit down and watch an educational film, because it doesnt feed his or her drug of violence.

Violence is a drug, so is power and dommination, these things feel good so we do them, some people hate God because he doesnt like it. I think God is wonderfull.

 

[cheeto1]

freesoulhope:

of late i have stop listening to music that promotes “thug” because i think about things that God doesnt like. some people hate God because he doesnt like it. I think God is wonderfull.

I’m with you, freesoulhope.

 

[vz71]

But there is still a point here. Why would anyone think that there is a big difference between violence in movies and violence in rap music?

Sorry, I am still not drawing a connection here…
You do not believe there is a difference between violence seen on the movie screen, and violence as glorified in rap music lyrics?

Do I detect another effort to draw all violence with the same brush stroke here?

Guys…
Watching an alien on the big screen chase people down is not the same thing as listening to someone rap about the ‘glory’ in the ‘thug’ lifestyle.

There are lines to be drawn, and differences in context and content to be considered. Not too far back in this thread that seemed understood. What happened?

:twocents:

Z

 

[freesoulhope]

It is immoral to love violence full stop. But one is not necceraly lustfull of violence if you watch a movie that has violence in it. Its about whats in your heart. If you are watching a film that leads you in to sin, then it is your responsibility to avoid certain films that do that. Entertainment is not a sin, But to enjoy or lust for violence cannot be seen as a mentally healthy thing. I watched a film Called the sphere last night, there where some violent parts in it, but thats not why i enjoyed the film, i liked the film because of its story line, i didnt gloryfy the violence or lust for it. When you walk down the street you might see somthing violent or if you watch a history channel you may see animals violently attacking eachother, theres nothing wrong in seeing violence or watching a program that has violence in it. But if a program is feeding me Violence, and i feel that its leeding me in to sin, then i turn it off.

Its about you and whats in your heart. I dont watch boxing matches because its violent and it encourages me to feel violent.
I will however watch a film with a good story line, somthing like Fire in the sky, or a film that doesnt work to inflame your lusts, thats the difference. Gangster music works to inflame your lust, you buy it because you like the image and the violence that is portrayed in the music, thats how they make money. But i dont see the link between violent encoraging music or films, and a film or song that is portraying a violent “senario”. If it was a sin to watch violence, i would never of watched the passion of Christ, nor would i read some parts of the bible. I enjoy the bible and storys alike, does that mean im immoral or that i enjoy violence. You may Enjoy watching a film that just happens to have violent parts in its story, but they are neccerray to the plot, Whats immoral about that ? How ever if any thought of violence makes you lust, then get rid of your tv and lock your self in your house, and close your eyes.

if your tempted by the world, that doesnt make you immoral. If you love violence, if you work to inflame it in your heart, then this is wrong.

 

[freesoulhope]

What we need to ask are selfs is, is there there a diffence between enjoying wacthing a film where aliens come down to destroy us,… and enjoying the violence that they inflict, are you enyoying the thought of a man being ripped apart or merly enjoying the film that just happens to have gory parts in it. watching a man dodge bullets is exciting, is it wrong to enjoy watching it? i liked the film matrix i enjoyed all the action in it, just like i enjoyed all the action in the ten commandments. Human beings die in both of the films, does this mean i enjoy violence in my heart just because i enyoyed the action of which some was violent? Is there a diference in enjoying a violent horror film and lusting and loving violence in the heart?

If it is then i guess i will have to avoid anything with even i hint of violence.

 

[vz71]

I’m still thinking that the line is drawn where there is an obvious difference of fact and fiction. There is also a line drawn as to the purpose of the violence.

I recently watched Hostel it was sick, and rather disappointing. I expected a good scare and was given instead a steady stream of meaningless violence. I suppose there was a story to be told of the inhumanity that man is capable of to his fellow man, but the meaningless violence and sex placed at the forefront covered any story to such a degree that finding any story would be a real stretch.
There was a line crossed. The violence was for its own sake, and covered the story rather then tell it.

I also recently watched Land of the Dead
I enjoyed (and saw nothing wrong with) this movie.
It was not a story that everyone would enjoy, and I expect that.
But it crossed no lines the way Hostel did.

That being said, what of rap music.
I am not a fan, and prefer never to listen to it no matter the subject at hand. But I recognize violence in the lyrics when I hear it. The glorification of a ‘thug’ lifestyle crosses the line.
Often I hear this line crossed. Sometimes not, but like I said before, I am not a fan, and do not listen to much.

 

[freesoulhope]

i watched land of the dead, the story line was okay, i enjoyed it.

Its hard to tell if its wrong to watch theses films,im scared sometimes of displeaseing God there for i try my best to avoid films that work only to satisfy sombodys lust of violence or encourages me to think negatively. I watched a film called “saw”, i thought that was cool to, but its not like i loved the violence, the violence was the scary part, its supposed scare you and frighten you, its when you like the violence, that s where i think there is a problem. I liked the story and felt it was okay to watch for a scare. but i stay away from films that promote a violent state of mind ( some films try to make violence cool). Some films have “cuase and effect” The violence is based on somthing happening, and doesnt inflame the lust to involve your self in it like gangster rap. Its very hard to define whats an okay violent film and a immorally violent film, considering we are trying to please God and he himself doesnt like violence. But i think its about what the film its self is trying to portray, is the film trying to encourage you to violence or is it merly showing violence as a result of conseqence.

There is an animation by pixar films called the incredibles. Its about super heroes who use violence to protect themselfs and also other human beings. this often results in them destroying or badly hurting the bad guys. I enjoyed watching that film, but was i wrong for enjoying it?

 

[vz71]

freesoulhope:

There is an animation by pixar films called the incredibles. Its about super heroes who use violence to protect themselfs and also other human beings. this often results in them destroying or badly hurting the bad guys. I enjoyed watching that film, but was i wrong for enjoying it?

No, you were not.

There is nothing wrong with the enjoyment of that movie. It is a family favorite around here. My 3 year old watches it frequently.

 

[MrIrish]

Kirane:

So I don’t see the point in differentiating between violence in movies as distinct from violence in rap music. They are both forms or types of entertainment which can be enjoyed.

The difference is that violence in (most) movies is put there to excite, to titilate. In contrast, much of the violence in rap music is being endorsed as something people should go out and perform. (Think about all these “cop killer” rap songs for example.) If you watch a Rambo film or something, the purpose of the movie is decidedly not to encourage people to go around with machine guys and kill everyone. I would not say the same thing about most rap music.

Let’s take another example. Consider the violence committed against our Lord as depicted in the Passion movie. Compare that to the portrayals (glorification as someone else noted) of violence in rap songs. Clearly they are not one and the same!

 

[General_Septem]

I’m an avid James Bond fan. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the violence because it’s either some guy gets dropped down a chimney or millions die because of that same guy. The violence on the villain’s part is there to show that he is sinister. I didn’t enjoy watching the guy get his head blown up in a decompression chamber but I still enjoyed the scene because of the character development of the villain.

Still on James Bond, it’s actually generally accepted that Bond doesn’t like killing. That’s why he always makes a joke afterwards, it’s his way of reassuring his conscience that the act was justified.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with gaming either. Your target is either a robot, animal, or human, but in the end they’re all robots because their actions are determined by a sequence of ones and zeroes on your hard drive, and implemented by a piece of silicon with tiny switches in it.

So the ones and zeroes implemented by a piece of silicon doesn’t apply to multiplayer situations. But in that case it’s only a game, it’s like paintball only it doesn’t hurt when you get shot. I don’t see the big deal as long as you have the right mindset.

 

[freesoulhope]

I would like to think you where correct but, is it okay to enjoy the violence in that game. when you kill sombody within that game are you enjoying the game or enjoying killing someone, even though you know its not real. i have stop playing some violent games because i keep getting this feeling i am offending God. My dad says that i might be being a bit extreme. I would like to think that i could go to my room wright now and play max pain, but then the paranoia sets in.

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

This really calls to mind the old Nightmare on Elm Street movies. The Freddie Krueger character made jokes… during the act of killing, making a ‘comedy’ of violence. The aim of many directors is to create emotion in the audience. Some movies, like Nightmare on Elm Street and others, actually aim with intent to cause laughter at the very act of violence, by including humor at that same moment.

Other movies with their violent special effects are made to inspire enjoyment at violent destruction by having intense special-effects. A tsunami levels NYC in a movie meant for entertainment: some people would think that is “cool” and enjoy the level of violent destruction. Neo & Trinity kill people with great special effects, and the audience possibly takes great enjoyment in that (perhaps for some it is the level of the special effect, perhaps for others maybe it’s the actual act of killing that they find enjoyable, in which case that is disturbing). But there are video games, where killing is the game & the entertainment. Like Grand Theft Auto.

“But its not real” people say.

No, it’s not real, but the emotions that the violent entertainment evoke, are. The Catechism doesn’t have anything good to say about violence. It is mentioned in the negative. The USCCB’s film ratings seem to list violence (including comic violence) as something negative, a possible deterrent from even seeing the movie at all. I can find nothing from the Catholic Church that approves acts of violence (with the exception of perhaps maybe self-defense, if that is violence) much less the enjoyment of it.

1st Thessalonians 5:22 says “avoid every kind of evil”. What force is it that’s so eager to make people enjoy even the thought of violence in the first place? Again, the Bible says in Psalm 101:3 “I will not put any evil thing before my eye”. That looks like it means ‘actively’. I can’t imagine Christ having us delight in evil, in any form whatsoever. It must be immoral to enjoy the act of violence, any act of violence… even if it is just a movie or a game or real life. On top of that I would have to say there is an added immorality from trying to make violence entertaining in the first place. As followers of the Prince of Peace, why should violence be entertaining to us at all? Personally, I think it’s frightening that violence is sometimes packaged as “entertainment”. Violence sounds like something satan would find entertaining. I think it’s disgusting that comedy and emotion can even be manipulated to make bad things seem funny. Very dangerous, too.

So is it immoral to enjoy violence in entertainment? Taking pleasure in special effects isn’t questionable. To enjoy acts of violence simply for the violence in and of it’s self (if that is the case), in entertainment or not, is a questionable thing. With the tones of condemnation of violence from the catechism, I would have to say that if you’re questioning if something is a sin, it’s just best to be on the side of caution.