Is It Licit To ENJOY the Marital Act?

  • Thread starter Thread starter L.C.Clench
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

L.C.Clench

Guest
Despite being in a long Catholic marriage, I have come to doubt whether even the legitimate, non-contraceptive performance of the Marital Act may be licitly enjoyed. I am not questioning that the actual performance of the Act is licit; my doubts concern whether it is moral and licit to take pleasure in the performance of the Act. As is well known, St. Augustine wrote that spousal performance of the Act was always sinful.

When I first read in #2362 that the Catechism calls for “a chaste union of the spouses,” I questioned what marital chastity meant; it seemed to me a contradiction. The first explanation I got was that chastity in marriage meant the right-ordered use of the sexual faculty and the non-objectification of the spouses. This response did not satisfy me for 2 reasons: First, the fact that in all other Church uses of the word "chaste,’ it meant NO sex (the vows of “poverty, chastity, and obedience;” references to “St. Joseph her most chaste spouse,” etc.) Second, in checking the Catholic Encyclopedia, I found the following:

“…by chastity the procreative appetite is duly restricted. Understood as interdicting all carnal pleasure, chastity is taken generally to be the same as continency.” In a separate article, the Catholic Encyclopedia then defines continence as “abstinence from even the licit gratifications of marriage.” These definitions seem to mean that pleasure, as opposed to the Act itself, is to be at least restrained if not totally denied, even within marriage.

I am aware that Vatican II states that the ends of marriage are both procreative and unitive. I do not question this. However, the accidents of biology (not artifically interfered with) determine whether a given Act is procreative; the physics of the Marital Act render it unitive. In neither of these is pleasure a necessary component, not have I found any Church document that explicitly states that it is moral and good for a couple to take pleasure in the Act. That the Act may be pleasurable at a biological level does not mean that such pleasure shouldn’t be prayerfully resisted, nor does such pleasure seem intrinsically a part of the procreative and unitive ends.

I am old enough to remember “pre-Cana conferences” and the many warnings about “unbridled passion” and the modesty expected within marriage promoted then (darkness, remaining clothed at all times). Perhaps as I have aged, the Manichean elements of my 1950’s pariochial New England upbringing are coming out. My conscience has always been troubled by this, but never more than now.
 
Wow! I’m not that much younger than you are but I’m sure glad I missed all the warnings, etc., that you received. Why does any of this concern you now? Have you been enjoying yourself and now feel guilty? Or is it the other way around? God created sex. It’s good. Passion is good. Whatever a married couple does behind closed doors is ok. Sex is spiritual, fun, comforting, relaxing and necessary if you want to feel connected to your spouse. What does your spouse think of your concerns?
 
The marital union is a gift from God, how can it be other than a joyful experience? The act is supposed to unitive…that means to bring the couple together as one. I would have to say that this union is not just of body, but rather of mind and spirit as well. I agree with the last poster, there are many feelings that are generated from this union; comfort, closeness, spiritual, relaxation and yes, most definitely fun. Not to be crude, but I consider sex without laughter a bad thing. Perhaps you should read Good News about Sex and Marriage or The Theology of the Body I think these will clear a few things up for you.
 
All I can say is, isn’t this an interesting first and only post? And, what an interesting user name. Really, the internet is full of people with computers, isn’t it? 😉
 
wacky&wonderful:
Whatever a married couple does behind closed doors is ok. QUOTE]

There are exceptions to this statement. Not everything is ok. Ask an Apologist and they will give you some examples.

God Bless,
Matt
 
I have a few points that I hope you find helpful.
  1. It is not a sin to enjoy anything. Joy and pleasure are natural responses to the goodness that God placed in the world. This goodness exists as expressions of God’s love for us. The Church calls too much enjoyment of pleasure, so that we focus too much on the Gift and not on the Giver or so that we misuse the Gift, the sin of intemperance. However, the Church also calls not enjoying goods and pleasures enough a sin - the sin of insensibility - because to fail to take pleasure in the goodness of the world is to foresake an expression of God’s love.
  2. Chastity always means the incorporation of the sexual powers into our personality, and the control of sexual desires according to our vocation. It does not always mean celibacy.
  3. Pleasure should never be the center of our sexuality. We cannot allow pleasure to turn our spouse into a means to an end. In fact, our concern should actually be on the pleasure of our spouse. However, in ensuring the pleasure of our spouse, and in focusing on life & love, our pleasure is actually enhanced. We are welcome, and even encouraged to enjoy it.
  4. The “Pre-Cana” warnings about sexuality were pragmatic teachings designed to protect couples against turning pleasure into objectification. Unfortunately, they erroneously took married sexuality to the other extreme. Their warnings against unbridled passion were well-intentioned, but their effect of making passion an object of guilt were misdirected. These warnings were not official doctrinal Church teachings.
 
I would imagine it’s a whole lot nicer when you “enjoy” the “marital embrace”. I still find that term a bit humorous too. Personally I find the phrase “making love to/with your spouse” a lot nicer.
~ Kathy ~
 
How could any rational person think it could not be licit to enjoy the marital act. That’s just daft!
 
Don’t turn your partner into an object would be the cautionary here, which should in no ways diminish pleasure but should increase it.
 
40.png
marty1818:
wacky&wonderful:
Whatever a married couple does behind closed doors is ok. QUOTE]

There are exceptions to this statement. Not everything is ok. Ask an Apologist and they will give you some examples.

God Bless,
Matt
You’re right, I should have been more careful when making that statement. How about: all* normal* behavior…but then, everyone’s version of normal is different. God is watching, so is there anything you think he might object to? I’m going to work now, before I get into any more trouble!
 
40.png
L.C.Clench:
St. Augustine wrote that spousal performance of the Act was always sinful.
Me thinks you misquote St. Augustine. Care to prove me wrong?
 
40.png
thistle:
How could any rational person think it could not be licit to enjoy the marital act. That’s just daft!
Actually it is not. Until just before Vatican II, much of the Church (especially in America) was still under the influence of the Jansenism heresey (although it was condemed centuries earlier). This had the tendacy of making anything pleasurable a sin.

PF
 
Regarding the OP: I spy something that starts with “T” and ends with “roll”…
http://www.oldtimecandy.com/images/candypix-pages/tootsie-rolls-midgees_small.jpg
oh well, at any rate…
40.png
Arrowood:
I have a few points that I hope you find helpful.
  1. It is not a sin to enjoy anything. Joy and pleasure are natural responses to the goodness that God placed in the world. This goodness exists as expressions of God’s love for us. The Church calls too much enjoyment of pleasure, so that we focus too much on the Gift and not on the Giver or so that we misuse the Gift, the sin of intemperance. However, the Church also calls not enjoying goods and pleasures enough a sin - the sin of insensibility - because to fail to take pleasure in the goodness of the world is to foresake an expression of God’s love.
I’m having trouble understanding this. How could enjoying too much, or not enough, be deliberate? Doesn’t sin have to be deliberate? :confused:
 
40.png
L.C.Clench:
Despite being in a long Catholic marriage, I have come to doubt whether even the legitimate, non-contraceptive performance of the Marital Act may be licitly enjoyed.

remainder snipped
Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well.
Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets.
Let them be only thine own, and not strangers’ with thee.
Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.
Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love.

Proverbs 5:15-19, KJV
DaveBj
 
Saying it is not licit to enjoy sex (within marriage, of course) is like saying it’s not licit to enjoy a good meal. Sex creates life and eating sustains it. God made them both enjoyable so that we would do them! When they are not enjoyable, that is a clear indication that something is wrong.

To say that God would make sex so pleasurable and enjoyable and then make it a sin to enjoy it, is blasphemous in the extreme. It is to make Him into a monster, who wants to trap us in sin so he can cast us into hell.

It is when we have sex or eat exclusively for the enjoyment that it becomes disordered, and therefore sinful. When we enjoy these activities within their proper context, we bless our creator and praise him with both our body and our spirit.

(Yes, there are other sins related to both sex and eating, but I’m only referring to sins related to their improper enjoyment.)
 
I did a little research on L.C. Clench, and found that this name came from a show called Alien Encounters.

Alien Encounter Cast

I’m wonder where the OP is. Where are you Mr. Clench? What is your response to the answers you’ve received about your question? Do you have any other topics of interest here at CAF?

Just curious… :cool:
 
40.png
L.C.Clench:
When I first read in #2362 that the Catechism calls for “a chaste union of the spouses,” I questioned what marital chastity meant; it seemed to me a contradiction.
You are confusing chastity with celebacy. All are called to chastity, but not all are called to celebacy.

For single people celebacy is a major part of their chastity, but someone can be celebate without being chaste. Remember that Bible verse that says any man who looks at a woman with lust has commited adultery in his heart? That’s the standard for chastity.

Married people are called to love one another, not lust one another. Contraception is an example of a sin against marital chastity. If you are confused about this, there are some wonderful resources on the theology of the body which explain it well.
 
Sexual pleasure between a husband and wife is a gift from God. To refuse it would be refusing something God wants you to have.

You meantion the words chastity and continence in marriage. That means the right order of using sexual pleasure. No artificial birth control, no mutual masturbation, and no using of the partner just for one’s pleasure alone. And continence at times, when mutually agreed upon, in order to focus better on prayer.
 
40.png
BlindSheep:
I’m having trouble understanding this. How could enjoying too much, or not enough, be deliberate? Doesn’t sin have to be deliberate? :confused:
I would answer this in two ways. One, “deliberate” is not all-or-nothing. We act with varying levels of knowledge and consent.

Secondly, what I mean by “enjoy” is not the emotional reaction toward a good. By “enjoy” I mean “endulge in.” In other words, acting in order to gain the pleasures of the physical world.

For example, if you are eating a steak and you have intense emotions of enjoyment, this is not a sin - and it was not what I meant by “enjoy.” However, if you order five or six steaks, or eat steak every day even though you know it is not good for you, you are engaging in sin because you are “enjoying” steak too much.

Applying this to the question at hand, it would be sinful to see marital sex as evil and to act accordingly. In this case, avoiding the marital embrace would be the sin of insensibility because the act of avoiding sex is a denial of the goodness God placed in it. On the other hand, to treat sex as the only purpose of marriage, or to treat one’s spouse as a means to sexual pleasure rather than as a person to be loved would be to fall to the sin of intemperence.

It is ok to give up physical goods for the sake of claiming a “higher,” spiritual good in their place. So, priests and consecrated single people who give up marriage for the sake of participating in the Divine Marriage do not commit the sin of insensibility because they do not deny the goodness of sexual union. Instead, they make it their goal to purely live for the greater good, to lead the way for all of us.

Sorry for the confusion - thanks for asking for clarification!
 
Look at all the various threads on this already. No it is not licit to enjoy if enjoyment is the goal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top