Is it ludicrous to think that the world will remain Capitalistic?

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=Robert Sock;11708446]The ‘freedom’ you see here in the West is nothing more than the greed, power and prestige found in capitalism.
Freedom comes from empowering the people to do their best and their desire to succeed. Capitalism utilizes free markets to allow that.
My main contention with this post was to paint a gloomy picture for capitalism;
One shouldn’t have to paint anything; let the evidence speak for itself.
my treating socialism in a positive light was just a distant, secondary contention.
So attack a system that with proper conscience works without a viable alternative???

:dts:
 
Marxism is made up of (good) Marxist.
That is a false reading of the Pope’s statement.

The Pope stated that he knows many Marxists that are good people.

He did not state that all, or even a majority or Marxists are good people,

Nor did he state that the Marxism itself was good, in fact, he specifically stated the opposite. He stated that “Marxist ideology is wrong”
 
The ‘freedom’ you see here in the West is nothing more than the greed, power and prestige found in capitalism.

My main contention with this post was to paint a gloomy picture for capitalism; my treating socialism in a positive light was just a distant, secondary contention.
*It is undeniable that the liberal model of the market economy, especially as moderated and corrected under the influence of Christian social ideas, has in some parts of the world led to great success. All the sadder are the results, especially in places like Africa, where clashing power blocs and economic interests have been at work. Behind the apparent beneficial models of development there has all too often been hidden the desire to expand the reach of particular powers and ideologies in order to dominate the market. In this situation, ancient social structures and spiritual and moral forces have been destroyed, with consequences that echo in our ears like a single great cry of sorrow.

No, without God things cannot go well. And because only in Christ has God shown us his face, spoken his name, entered into communion with us; without Christ there is no ultimate hope. (Cardinal Ratzinger, "Eucharist, Communion, and Solidarity)*

Notice how, despite his criticism of abuses of the market, keeping with the theme of bishops and popes criticizing neo-liberalism and liberalism, he mentions how a liberal model of the market economy (i.e free market capitalism) brings great success if it is directed by Christian charity. The problem is ignoring God, not the system.
 
It is rather ironic that one would blame “the West” or capitalism for all the ills of the world.

For much of history, poverty was the rule, wealth the exception, and limited to kings or emperors or nobles. When nations in “the west” found a way to bring about a more generalized increase of wealth, making the wealth pie bigger and enabling it to spread to more people, it now is blamed as evil because other parts of the world have not yet reached that point of economic success. One ought not to wish to kill the golden goose in order that all may be poor equally.
 
It is rather ironic that one would blame “the West” or capitalism for all the ills of the world.

For much of history, poverty was the rule, wealth the exception, and limited to kings or emperors or nobles. When nations in “the west” found a way to bring about a more generalized increase of wealth, making the wealth pie bigger and enabling it to spread to more people, it now is blamed as evil because other parts of the world have not yet reached that point of economic success. One ought not to wish to kill the golden goose in order that all may be poor equally.
Does capitalism contain any negative aspects? I think so. Why is there such an income disparity and poverty from within the capitalistic nations in the West? Is it GREED, POWER and PRESTIGE?
 
Does capitalism contain any negative aspects? I think so. Why is there such an income disparity and poverty from within the capitalistic nations in the West? Is it GREED, POWER and PRESTIGE?
It would be nice if you actually addressed the other peoples’ points when they are raised, rather than continually discuss the same buzzwords.

Having said that, why is it that in any socialist nation that there are two classes? The masses and the nomenklatura? I don’t care if you’re talking about the countries of the former Eastern bloc, Maoist China, North Korea, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, or wherever else…

Oh, let me guess: once the international socialist revolution is complete around the world, there would be no need for a nomenklatura, as the workers would all have plenty and everybody would start and end their day singing the “Internationale”, arm in arm.
 
It would be nice if you actually addressed the other peoples’ points when they are raised, rather than continually discuss the same buzzwords.

Having said that, why is it that in any socialist nation that there are two classes? The masses and the nomenklatura? I don’t care if you’re talking about the countries of the former Eastern bloc, Maoist China, North Korea, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, or wherever else…

Oh, let me guess: once the international socialist revolution is complete around the world, there would be no need for a nomenklatura, as the workers would all have plenty and everybody would start and end their day singing the “Internationale”, arm in arm.
A ruling minority is needed to run any government.

Again, I already stated that socialism may not be the best economic system.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated!
 
A ruling minority is needed to run any government.

Again, I already stated that socialism may not be the best economic system.

Your sarcasm is not appreciated!
Wow.

So now I am truly confused.

You oppose capitalism because of privilege, power, and greed (presumably of the corporate bosses)

But you justify a small group who have all the power and privileges that the working masses can only dream of…as long as the power and privilege is doled out by the government.

So government power and privilege is good. Corporate power and privilege is evil.

Do I understand you correctly?
 
The bottom line: You’re taking the love of money, power and prestige and glorifying them. Here are some hard and fast figures that reflect truth, and not stereotypes:

842 million people - or one in eight people in the world - do not have enough to eat.

1.4 billion people in developing countries live on $1.25 a day or less (extreme poverty).

1.7 billion people lack access to clean water.

2.3 billion people suffer from water-borne diseases each year.

How do you propose that capitalism deal with those living in poverty? Have a heart and feel for these people! Too often, we reduce poverty to mere statistics and forget the pain and struggle these people go through.
This is as good an example of “not getting it” as I have ever seen. Capitalism exists in the best socieites and in the worst, and in all in between. There are lots of reasons why the people in some countries suffer, and it’s not always from the same cause. But take Zimbabwe as an example. There’s precious little available capital there because Mugabe seized it from those who had it and distributed it among his cronies, who wasted it. Further, no investor in his right mind would invest in Zimbabwe now because his capital is likely to be seized.

You’re blaming the wrong cause, and no one will gain any insight into the causes of poverty or the remedies for it who fixates on this tired old leftist deception.
 
History holds that it was actually the total subjugation of the German people after the First World War that made the Second World War possible. As for the Japanese, they simply launched another war on us staring around the 1960’s, which was the whole idea behind “Sonny Boy,” later to become known as Sony in the west. The Sonny Boys aimed to show the west who was boss. And for about 30 years they did that relatively well. The approach of putting our heels on the throats of others in order to achieve anything worthwhile I think is a rather questionable idea.
WWI did not result in a total subjugation of Germany, just the imposition of incredible financial (and nationalistic) punishment that led to WWII. Furthermore, the victors quickly left Germany after WWI and allowed a new government to remain intact. However after WWII we broke the nation up into four sections, and maintained a military governorship there for several years and the Nazi fervor was totally stamped out. The same thing happened in Japan - the military governorship remained in place for long enough to totally eradicate the imperialistic fervor. THIS was the total subjugation.

War is hell. If we are going to engage in war, we better be prepared to win it so we don’t have to fight it again.
I was unaware that newly made millionaires are flocking to New York in order to obtain taxi licenses. I always suspected that somehow those guys in the smelly cabs with Playboy air fresheners outside LaGuardia and Newark airports were really aristocratic snobs.
No, but the regulations now prevent a new immigrant, or any other low/middle class person, from just starting a new business. Now one must get the backing of a millionaire (ie: borrow the money) and be forever in debt to the wealthy. This is a perfect example of how rules/regulations/laws oppress the poor and benefit the wealthy.
Yes, and the Republicans are left with poor backers like the Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch, and run financially destitute candidates like Mitt Romney and George Bush. On the same subject, about one-third of the money for President Obama’s campaign came from people giving $200 or less, a sum that suggests that many of his donors weren’t rich.
Of course there are wealthy Repubs, and you hear about them on the mainstream media on a daily basis. The Koch brother’s names are added to every news report about PACs, but you rarely hear anything about George Soros.

And about the <$200 donations…how much of that was untraceable CC transactions that may have come from overseas?? Oh, yeah…that’s another thing never mentioned in the mainstream media.
 
This is as good an example of “not getting it” as I have ever seen. Capitalism exists in the best socieites and in the worst, and in all in between. There are lots of reasons why the people in some countries suffer, and it’s not always from the same cause. But take Zimbabwe as an example. There’s precious little available capital there because Mugabe seized it from those who had it and distributed it among his cronies, who wasted it. Further, no investor in his right mind would invest in Zimbabwe now because his capital is likely to be seized.

You’re blaming the wrong cause, and no one will gain any insight into the causes of poverty or the remedies for it who fixates on this tired old leftist deception.
👍

And THIS is what politicians of all stripes do when they have too much power. As the U.S. federal government has grown from a republic to a democracy over the past 160 years it has taken more and more power from the people and centralized it into the government, allowing politicians to divert more and more tax money toward their cronies.
 
👍

And THIS is what politicians of all stripes do when they have too much power. As the U.S. federal government has grown from a republic to a democracy over the past 160 years it has taken more and more power from the people and centralized it into the government, allowing politicians to divert more and more tax money toward their cronies.
Perhaps the most “anti-social” part of it is that all governmental transfer payments come from labor’s share of national income. It has been that way for decades. There is a reason why that’s inherent, but I no longer remember what it is. Need to look it up again.
 
Greed, power, and prestige, are attributes of individuals, not economic systems. Greed, power, and prestige exist in every economic system and in every conceivable economic system.
 
Greed, power, and prestige, are attributes of individuals, not economic systems. Greed, power, and prestige exist in every economic system and in every conceivable economic system.
GREED, POWER and PRESTIGE are measured on a continuum. Every economic system will have these attributes to some degree, but capitalism will actually breed these attributes and they will become very problematic.
 
Wow.

So now I am truly confused.

You oppose capitalism because of privilege, power, and greed (presumably of the corporate bosses)

But you justify a small group who have all the power and privileges that the working masses can only dream of…as long as the power and privilege is doled out by the government.

So government power and privilege is good. Corporate power and privilege is evil.

Do I understand you correctly?
Again, GREED, POWER and PRESTIGE are measured on a continuum. Every economic system will have these attributes to some degree, but capitalism will actually breed these attributes and they will become very problematic. We need to design an economic system that reduces these attributes as much as possible.

Society should be run by experts, and safeguards need to be built in that limit negative attributes from forming.
 
May the Lord save us from a society run by “experts!”

Big Brother knows best. And he loves you, right?
 
May the Lord save us from a society run by “experts!”

Big Brother knows best. And he loves you, right?
Are you suggesting that society be run by idiots? When Christ returns, there will be perfect order, but until then we need to do the best we can utilizing experts.
 
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