Is it moral to shoot stray cats?

[iamrefreshed]

My daughter is my shooting buddy, she and I knock down targets on the weekends

Long range target shooting is my hobby. I don’t hunt and don’t like to kill animals. Common target bullets maintain supersonic velocities out past 1200 yards. It is common to have 500 foot pounds of energy out past 900 yards. No cat will ever know what hit it at those velocities and terminal energies. But the proper tools allow for amazing accuracy and incredible distances.

I think I’ll try and stay on your good side!

 

[melensdad]

About 20 years ago on my parent’s place (10 acres), there was a feral cat running loose; he had literally cleaned all the birds, squirrels, and rabbits out of the entire area.
. . .
It took more than a year for the native wildlife and bird populations to come back, however.

What worries me is that we live in the middle of hundreds of rural semi-wooded acres (my land and the surrounding lands) and there are DOZENS of these cats. I certainly can’t cull them all, but they are destroying the native wildlife.

You obviously can appreciate that and it shows in what you wrote. I’m not sure that some of the other folks understand how destructive these feral cats are to the eco-system.

With many folks there seems to be an obvious bias of opinion to release the cats back to the wild to do more damage **I would think releasing them back to the wild would be the immoral act.

Why is it moral to release them to where they don’t belong, and to where they cause devastating damage?** Do the folks who suggest releasing them no see the damage they do? Do they think it is good stewardship of the earth to have cats killing native species?

I think I’ll try and stay on your good side!

While that is obviously meant in jest, and I took it that way, I really do struggle with this issue.

I do not like killing animals, it just seems that it must be done. I see no other reasonable or humane alternative and the options given don’t seem particularly reasonable or humane either.

 

[iamrefreshed]

While that is obviously meant in jest, and I took it that way, I really do struggle with this issue.

I do not like killing animals, it just seems that it must be done. I see no other reasonable or humane alternative and the options given don’t seem particularly reasonable or humane either.

Yes. Poor humor on my part…sorry:blush:

While I can understand your concern for the killing of an animal, it is important to realize that it is just an animal. God has given us dominion over them. Not that we should abuse it but it is our responsibility to be the caretaker of what He bestowed us. The pheasant, bluebirds, rabbits and squirrel are animals too.

I don’t think anyone here but the fanitical would oppose destruction of the sea lampreys and mollusks invading the Great Lakes?

 

[Tig]

Interesting topic and one I struggle with. Do I feed the cats dropped off or left behind or not? Does feeding them maybe cut down on the birds etc. that they consume? I can not afford neutering any of them - cats or dogs. I have feed them but have cut back as now raccoons and other assorted wildlife are coming to the eatery and close to my home. Good discussion. I only wish they would come up with something one could put in the food which would neuter or at least cause birth control. I will continue to struggle with the question. But thanks to all for your (name removed by moderator)ut
.

 

[cockatoo]

I understand both points 1 and 2.

It completely misses the points I asked about several times regarding the killing of the native species (the elimination of natural selection by introducing a non-native element), and the poor stewardship we are showing to the natural eco-system by reintroducing them where they clearly don’t belong.

So now they have a bunch of old sick dogs dying in the streets? Disease and starvation do not sound very humane.

You arent listening, they are reintroduced and die out, eventually being scarce if not non- existant in the area, it is highly unlikely that they will kill enough native species to cause a problem.

Also, who said the dogs were diseased or starving. They are old and thin, but not unhealthyly thin. I was there, I saw the dogs and have pictures of a couple.

 

[melensdad]

Interesting topic and one I struggle with. Do I feed the cats dropped off or left behind or not?

If a cat is “dropped off” then it is likely that that particular cat could be saved by being taken to an adoption shelter. That is a completely different issue than the one I am struggling with.

You are dealing with house cats that were thrown out of the house. I would suggest that it is compassionate to feed and capture them and then return them to caring homes (via a shelter).

My cat situation involves cats that have been born in the wild, or that, in some cases, were born in captivity but always allowed to roam the woods and they then acclimated themselves to the wild. The family that had these cats never took them inside, they lived outside year round and there were literally a couple dozen of them that were given food and water and allowed to interbreed at will and become wild. The family moved away a few years ago and didn’t bother with the cats. So they have continued to integrate into the wild over the past few years. We see little kittens each year and they are just as mean and wild as the older cats.

But under no circumstances should cats be allowed into the ecosystem!!! It seem immoral to me to throw them away in the first place, but it is certainly bad environmental stewardship to let them destroy the native species.

You arent listening, they are reintroduced and die out, eventually being scarce if not non- existant in the area, it is highly unlikely that they will kill enough native species to cause a problem.

Also, who said the dogs were diseased or starving. They are old and thin, but not unhealthyly thin. I was there, I saw the dogs and have pictures of a couple.

Yes I very clearly am listening. They are reintroduced into an ecosystem where they do not belong and long before they die off, they KILL THE NATIVE SPECIES. If you want to come over to my home I will show you the damage they do to the species. There are other posts here that confirm that the wildlife takes A YEAR OR MORE to come back from the damage from JUST 1 CAT.

As for the dogs, it is nature for them to get old. If they are street dogs then they will get diseases just being out there and as they age they will not be able to hunt for food so they will die of disease or starvation. It is just natural. Unless someone goes to feed it. But who will keep it disease free? Nobody. We need to think through the consequences of our actions!!!

 

[iamrefreshed]

You arent listening, they are reintroduced and die out, eventually being scarce if not non- existant in the area, it is highly unlikely that they will kill enough native species to cause a problem.

Also, who said the dogs were diseased or starving. They are old and thin, but not unhealthyly thin. I was there, I saw the dogs and have pictures of a couple.

Maybe the dogs in Greece are being fed?

The cats in melaniesdad’s yard are killing everything in site.

Reintroducing them after neutering them won’t solve that problem.

 

[cockatoo]

Maybe the dogs in Greece are being fed?

The cats in melaniesdad’s yard are killing everything in site.

Reintroducing them after neutering them won’t solve that problem.

It can. Plus reintroductions are not always at the place they came from.

 

[melensdad]

reintroductions are not always at the place they came from.

So you are in favor of them being reintroduced to destroy EVEN MORE habitat in OTHER areas? Honestly, I don’t see how that has any moral basis within the concept of good stewardship to the land. It seems quite immoral to me

It can.

HOW? How can it solve the problem of the destruction of the native species? All it does is MOVE the problem to a NEW location.

 

[manualman]

What we have going on here is a clash of worldviews.

On the one hand, you have the urban dwellers who have seen a lot of Disney movies and think of the animal kingdom as cute, furry and generally splendid. Suffering, cruelty and premature death are things brought about by humans and foreign to animals.

On the other hand, you have the mostly rural dwellers who generally have more actual contact with nature on a day to day basis. They tend to be much more experience observing the reality of nature instead of ‘nature movies’ and have concluded that the lives of wild animals are “nasty, brutish and short.” (Give Hobbes his credit, he wrote that about the lives of man without government. He’d be right if man were merely an animal)

Folks in group #2 see nothing out of the ordinary in killing animals to eliminate unhealthy patterns that have disrupted the food chain or threaten native species. Folks from group #1 can’t stand the thought of animal suffering and are horrified at the idea of violence against them to achieve a goal (even a good one).

 

[child_of_God85]

I can’t say whether it’s a sin or not, but I know I would feel terrible shooting a cat. Can’t you get rid of them in a kinder fashion, like trapping them and setting them out somewhere else? We’ve done that many time with stray cats and it works like a charm.

 

[melensdad]

Folks in group #2 see nothing out of the ordinary in killing animals to eliminate unhealthy patterns that have disrupted the food chain or threaten native species. Folks from group #1 can’t stand the thought of animal suffering and are horrified at the idea of violence against them to achieve a goal (even a good one).

Agreed, but let me expound just a bit more if I may.

Folks in group #2 also seem to value the lives of cats above the lives of native species.

Folks in group #2 also seem to have an unusual view (IMHO) of good stewardship to the earth as they almost universally suggest an answer that ultimately leaves the cats out in the wild to continue to destroy the native species. Regardless of whether they are spayed/neutered or not, if cats are in the wild they will destroy the native species and the chipmunks, squirrels, cardinals, pheasants, bluebirds and my favorite, the little timberdoodle (woodcock) will simply be killed for no reason other than to show compassion to the cats that do not belong in the wild in the first place.

I still do not understand how it is humane to the wild animals to turn loose a predator species that overwhelms the native species.

I still do not understand why it is humane to spay/neuter a cat and then return it to the wild (see my prior issue).

I still do not understand how it is good stewardship to leave a cat (in any form) in the wild.

I still do not understand how it is good stewardship to value cats above native species, especially in the wild were the cats are NOT native.

I still do not see how it is humane to capture, transport, hold down, and poison a cat in a shelter, but it is inhumane to kill it instantly.

I can’t say whether it’s a sin or not, but I know I would feel terrible shooting a cat. Can’t you get rid of them in a kinder fashion, like trapping them and setting them out somewhere else? We’ve done that many time with stray cats and it works like a charm.

All you are doing is MOVING the problem. Please read some of the earlier posts in this thread,** I am really struggling with this issue as I clearly have written I do not like killing animals**, it is astounding how much damage these feral cats impose. But moving the cat across the river or to another farm where it can continue to kill the native species is very bad environmental stewardship in my eyes.

 

[otjm]

Interesting topic and one I struggle with. Do I feed the cats dropped off or left behind or not? Does feeding them maybe cut down on the birds etc. that they consume? I can not afford neutering any of them - cats or dogs. I have feed them but have cut back as now raccoons and other assorted wildlife are coming to the eatery and close to my home. Good discussion. I only wish they would come up with something one could put in the food which would neuter or at least cause birth control. I will continue to struggle with the question. But thanks to all for your (name removed by moderator)ut
.

A .22 is instant birth control.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I also want to point out that, studies have been done by humane groups here & abroad, where the stomach contents of feral cats who have been put down are analyzed, and cats very rarely have been found to have eaten birds. Even squirrels are rare. The most common food items found are: insects; field mice; rats; & parts of other pests like woodchucks.
I have had cats all my life, & lived around cat owners–hundreds of cats, & I have only known of two in the entire lot who have killed birds. In both cases the most common bird killed is the barn swallow. If you have never had these guys bombard you, you are lucky. (I have gotten so fed up with them, I have killed the stupid birds myself, not waited for a cat). They are a menace, & what makes them a menace makes them prey for cats…
(I did once have a poodle who delighted in killing robins. But we are talking cats).

Cats both domestic and feral kill for sport or fun when give the oppertunity and rarely eating the kill. The report didn’t come to that conclusion but didn’t rule it out either.

Killing a federally or state protected bird like a barn swallow is a morally objectionable offense with out good reason.

 

[Bennie_P]

Check your local laws, for in many communities cats have more rights then children.

Jim Stevenson is the founder of the Galveston Ornithological Society and is an avid bird lover. He also is set to stand trial this month for a felony cat murder.
A jury may decide if Stevenson acted within his rights when he shot a feral cat that was preying on a bird.
It comes down to the feral cat versus bird debate. Stevenson struggled with the question if feral cats are pets or pests.
“They see it as a choice,” said Stevenson. “Does Jim shoot the cat or not shoot the cat? But that’s not the choice,” he said. “It’s a choice of who dies, the cat or the bird. By acting or not acting, I had to choose who dies.”
The incident happened in November 2006. Stevenson drove to the beach that was 15 minutes from his house. He saw some piping plovers, which are endangered birds, sleeping. A limping cat was about to come up on the birds when Stevenson appeared, and the cat escaped into the darkness.
He went home and went on the Internet to research Galveston’s city code. The code requires pets to have tags, and all pets are prohibited on the beaches. Texas penal law made it a crime to kill animals, but only those “belonging to another.” Stevenson felt like this cat that he saw on the beach was not someone’s pet because there were no tags and it was on the beach.
The next morning, Stevenson got his .22-caliber rifle, loaded into his Ornithological Society van, and decided to go cat hunting.

He quickly spotted the same cat under the bridge. He rolled his window down, put the rifle barrel on the edge, and shot at the cat. The cat dropped from the shot, and at the same time, Stevenson said he heard “spewing of profane language” from the bridge.
The profane language came from John Newland, a toll collector. Newland ran out and screamed at Stevenson. Another toll collector called the police. Newland jumped in his truck and chased down Stevenson.
Stevenson was met by four police cars on the beach.
Newland is the main witness for the prosecution. He claims he is the owner of the cat that Stevenson killed. Under Texas law, killing someone else’s animal without permission can result in a two year prison sentence.

More itchmo.com/texas-bird-lover-on-trial-for-cat-felony-2615

If it is legal - shot’em. It is more humane then having them put down in a shelter. It is very hard to find the the cat’s vein and they suffer greatly if it you miss it. I know, I use to put cats and dogs down for a Humane Society run animal shelter, when I first got out the Army in the early 80s.

 

[vern_humphrey]

What’s not moral is to allow one’s pets to breed indiscriminately, to allow predatory pets to roam free, and to “dump” or abandon excess or unwanted pets in the countryside.

Feral and domestic cats kill more biomass than hunters and automobiles combined each year. Feral dogs not only threaten deer and livestock, but can attack men.

My neighbor, who lives about a quarter mile away through the woods, is a cabinet maker. His shop is about a hundred yards from his house. One day, he started to leave his shop and was confronted by a pack of feral dogs. They kept him penned in his shop for hours.

After he got out, he called me. I walked up the road and found him in his truck. The dogs were challenging him in his truck! When I approached, one of them charged me.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Check your local laws, for in many communities cats have more rights then children.
More itchmo.com/texas-bird-lover-on-trial-for-cat-felony-2615

If it is legal - shot’em. It is more humane then having them put down in a shelter. It is very hard to find the the cat’s vein and they suffer greatly if it you miss it. I know, I use to put cats and dogs down for a Humane Society run animal shelter, when I first got out the Army in the early 80s.

The toll collector should have faced federal charges brought for hunting an endangered species with his cat and for every time he allowed his cat to stalk an endangered species. He should turn himself in for that offense. Who broke the law first. He admitted the cat was his. He must answer for the harm done by the cat.

Also you can’t house a personal pet in a toll booth as a government employee. That has to be a county offense at the very least.

 

[Wolseley]

What worries me is that we live in the middle of hundreds of rural semi-wooded acres (my land and the surrounding lands) and there are DOZENS of these cats. I certainly can’t cull them all, but they are destroying the native wildlife.

You can dispose of as many as you can which helps, espcially at the rate they tend to breed.

You obviously can appreciate that and it shows in what you wrote. I’m not sure that some of the other folks understand how destructive these feral cats are to the eco-system.

From an ancient conservation pamphlet I have (1974):

"Vagrant cats soon revert to their wild habits and become rapacious, cautious, and solitary. They are a menace to beneficial birds, and in addition, are usually mangy and diseased. They mingle with domestic cats and contaminate them by transmitting disease and parasites, and in this way may disseminate disease among human beings.

Because of their destruction of game species and insectivorous birds, poultry, cottontail rabbits, and other forms of beneficial wildlife, and because they may become a menace to public health, all unowned cats should be humanely destroyed.

Any person over the age of 21 years, who is the holder of a valid State hunting, fishing, or trapping license, may—and it shall be the duty of a game protector or other peace officer—to humanely destroy a cat at large found hunting or killing any bird protected by law or with a dead bird of any species protected by law in its possession. No action for damages shall be maintained for such killing."

With many folks there seems to be an obvious bias of opinion to release the cats back to the wild to do more damage I would think releasing them back to the wild would be the immoral act.

I agree. Neutering feral cats and then releasing them back into the wild to kill more animals is sort of similar to neutering a serial murderer and releasing him back onto the street.

Why is it moral to release them to where they don’t belong, and to where they cause devastating damage? Do the folks who suggest releasing them no see the damage they do? Do they think it is good stewardship of the earth to have cats killing native species?

I submit to you that many of these folks are city dwellers, who have never had to deal with the type of problems that farmers and homesteaders deal with on a fairly regular basis. They think these are cute little kittycats and shudder in horror at the idea of shooting them. The chicken farmer who’s lost 25 valuable friers over a span of two weeks to voracious feral cats, however, has no pangs of conscience at taking a .20-gauge shotgun and blasting the feral cat to smithereens.

 

[Wolseley]

cockatoo:

You arent listening, they are reintroduced and die out, eventually being scarce if not non- existant in the area, it is highly unlikely that they will kill enough native species to cause a problem.

See above. Further, what evidence can you cite to corroborate your claim that these cats don’t kill enough native species to cause a problem? I can tell you from personal experience that even one cat can clean out an area of all wildlife under the size of a beagle dog inside the radius of a mile.

manualman:

What we have going on here is a clash of worldviews.

On the one hand, you have the urban dwellers who have seen a lot of Disney movies and think of the animal kingdom as cute, furry and generally splendid. Suffering, cruelty and premature death are things brought about by humans and foreign to animals.

On the other hand, you have the mostly rural dwellers who generally have more actual contact with nature on a day to day basis. They tend to be much more experience observing the reality of nature instead of ‘nature movies’ and have concluded that the lives of wild animals are “nasty, brutish and short.” (Give Hobbes his credit, he wrote that about the lives of man without government. He’d be right if man were merely an animal)

Folks in group #2 see nothing out of the ordinary in killing animals to eliminate unhealthy patterns that have disrupted the food chain or threaten native species. Folks from group #1 can’t stand the thought of animal suffering and are horrified at the idea of violence against them to achieve a goal (even a good one).

You nailed it right on the head, manualman. I grew up in farm country, worked on farms until I went in the Air Force, and now live on 85 cares surrounded by wilderness and horse ranches, and the city people who I talk to just don’t get it. They have no exposure, never had to deal with this type of stuff before. Not their fault, of course; but they just have no concept. It’s like the people who get the creepy-crawlies at the idea of a slaughterhouse for cows and pigs, but they have no problem with their Big Mac or Sausage McMuffin, because they think that beef and pork comes from some sort of “Meat Manufacturing Factory”, where the stuff is made from scratch ingredients like candy bars are.

My dad raised rabbits, and I clearly remember one time some of my mother’s relatives from downtown urban Lansing, Michigan, coming to visit on butchering day. They were absolutely appalled at the way a domestic rabbit is processed. You grab the rabbit by the hind legs, smack it over the back of the head with a club to stun it, and then take a knife and cut the head off. After it bleeds out, you gut it, skin it, de-foot it, and clean it before packaging it for sale. They were horrified at what we were doing to the cute little bunnies—but this is simply the harsh reality of how you get things like rabbit meat, or chicken, or turkey, or beef, lamb, pork, even venison.

But as I say, they’ve never had to live on a farm and butcher the animals that they eat, so they have no concept.

 

[nichjake]

Just one thing I wanted to add for the person who was concerned about staving kittens if the mother cat is shot…I say good. Its sad that the kittens would starve but those kittens would grow up to be just like the mother cat, even if they were found and raised by people. Killing the feral momma cat would be like killing two birds (or 10) with one stone.

I have a cat whose parents were feral, we found her as a three month old kitten and took her in. She was a sweet lovable kitten but once she got to be about a year and half old she changed. She’s about 7 now and wild as can be. The one in my house who can even look at her with her spazzing out is my mom. We have to keep her locked in our basement or else she’ll destroy the house. I keep trying to convince my mom to have her put to sleep because she just isn’t a pet…she’s wild and it would be totally irresponsible to just let her go. My cousin also has such a cat. The offspring of feral cats are just as untamable as the parent cats.

Also most humane societys and shelters have a very tight budget. Any money and time they had to spend putting feral cats to sleep would take away valuable resources from PETS that they could be taking care of.