Is it morally permissible to cuddle with someone of the opposite sex?

[myelin]

Someone did open the box of Pandora. What we did was lean on each other while talking with others, fall a sleep in front of the TV, sometimes just for fun holding hands while walking outside, and sleep in the same bed twice, and I can assure you all that there was nothing wrong going on. If it is wrong what we did, what is right? To show feelings is never wrong, and I do think that sense combined with strong faith is well enough to prevent any “disaster”.

If we constantly keep an eye on what we can’t do and what may be wrong we will get crazy. Everything is not wrong, it will not lead to conduct that is OK only in a marriege, a simple way of being close, but not “intimate” is not wrong. A friendship between a boy and a girl, or a man and a woman, where both parts do show affection as “friends do” is not wrong. If we doubt our strength it can be wrong, I do admit that, but I think that we need a stronger faith if we all the time are in need of checking out what is wrong, what right. It is a bit like driving a car, We are making one mistake every minute and we can only see five different things each minute when we drive, and still most of us make it without any mishaps. All we need is a faith strong enough, and we are safe. If our faith is weak we need to always ask us self “is this a sin, can this lead to a sin, is this OK” and completely stop living, or work on our faith. I think that the words of Christ is what we need to hear, “one without a sin may cast the first stone”. For heaven’s sake, when will people understand that there really is not any sin always lurking in the corner? It is very common that people when they meet, give a kiss on the cheek, nothing wrong with that, so please be reasonable and stop seekin sin where there are non.

So your implying, approving and recomending single young people socialize, drink, party with the gay scene…go to gay bars…is that it?

theres no line right ? simply go on the flow, intuition…thats not what having a brain or being decent is all about. Paris Hilton will tell yuh that.

this whole thing is a waste of time and belongs in psychology…or whatever .

 

[Lasting_faith]

First of all, I do not understand how this became a “gay-issue”, I must have left something out reading it. And no. I do not “recomend” anyone to anything that is not in line with what we call moral. Of course not. I did only (in too many words) point out that what it takes is faith. I am not special, I don’t know if my faith is strong if measured against someone else’s or how much it takes to lure me into something the Devil did think of. All I say is that this far my faith has been strong enough, and I do know when to back out if things did get a bit to heated. But that is not a issue anymore for me. I am 53, I am divorced, 1994 BTW, and will not have anything to do with any female person because I value my right to receive Communion to much to do anything I should not do. All I did was that I told “my story” as a proof that friendship including “cuddling” between a boy and a girl or a man and a woman is possible if the faith is strong enough. So why did I tell it? Because I have this funny thing to look at situations and not see sin wall to wall.

I guess I am far from a “normal” Catholic but I do wear a Brown Scapular, and that is a very binding ting, at least for me. I am sorry if I have (once again) offend someone but I think the truth is important, and for me the truth is that it is possible to live and even have fun without sin.

Furthermore, we all must meet our spouses somewhere, I don’t think a gay-bar is the place, but there is nothing wrong in visit a bar even if I don’t even drink, and when I was younger I did find girls I did date, but my former wife I did meet in a office. I know what it is to be young, and I have done mistakes, but I can’t believe that all Catholics meet their soon to be wife/husband in a Church. It would be the best thing, yes, but you would still have to date to get to know her/him and the element of sin is always around, but it is a very small risk to go to far if you have faith and know what is OK and what is not. (If I only would learn to only read and never write.)

 

[thewanderer]

Shun…To avoid deliberately; keep away from. Never used the word and never used the word sinful…and…have never acted this way toward anyone.

That has nothing to do with suggesting a person on the single scene socializing -cuddly style with a gay person is not wise, for explained reasons…heres another reason…

a) the only involvement a man has with a women who is married to another man is positive things in the direction and flourish of the on-going marriasge…check.

b) the only involvement a Christian has with a Bi or Gay person is in the full ready and hopeful encouraging possibilities for a path toward ordered longings and idea’s…

therefore in a social single scene where people are

• young
  -drink
  -new to emotions
• hoping to find a real partner

the socializing is somewhat illogical and a bad idea.

if this thread thinks a Christians involvement is “not interested” -in a gay or bi persons working through the inclination in a positive way, and it fully changes the association?..then I’m in the wrong place. (This is where the self needs to be put aside.

To be honest I am having a hard time understanding what you say, you do not speak English as I am used to hearing it. Is there perhaps a language barrier here?

But, if I do understand you correctly, you are somehow assuming that the OP’s gay friend is fully a part of the worst of the secular “gay” scene and because of that assumption saying she should have nothing to do with him, is that correct? If so, why in the world do you assume this?

 

[thewanderer]

Ok so** I’m not here to argue with a group of gay advocates **and do not enjoy this…also its not my fault this Ed is what it is today , together with the gay movement. I will be checking back in honor of my entries in a day or so… so if the tomatoes start flying at my stuff…I will defend in the continued polite way.

Thats good, because I really don’t see any gay advocates here. I see people who were having a conversation about something else entirely and who were confused by your posts and assumptions and the fact that you come on here accusing us of all sorts of nonsensical things like being “gay advocates” and getting upset at us for no understandable reason, claiming it is because we are with the"gay lobby". Maybe you are misunderstanding things because of a language barrier, but nobody here has said anything that is contrary to Church teaching on sexuality. I really don’t understand why in the world you keep bringing homosexuality into this.

 

[CompSciGuy]

Hello my lovely fellow Catholics.

This is something I’ve been wondering about. I have a gay male friend (I’m a girl) who is very affectionate. He seems to be the cuddly type. I’m just wondering, what are the moral guidelines for physical, nonromantic affection? I have cuddled with boyfriends in the past with no problems of going too far, or things getting out of hand. For whatever reason, the thought of cuddling with someone I’m not in a relationship with seems kind of wrong–but then again, if it is devoid of sexual stimulation enough to be permissible in a romantic, dating relationship, shouldn’t it be permissible as affection between friends?

Granted, I understand that this probably has potential negative emotional/social repercussions, but I’m struggling with the bigger topic of “morality of affection”, as it were. After all, merely dating someone doesn’t change the degree of permissible physicality–only marriage does that!

Physical intimacy leads to emotional/romantic feelings. To answer your own question, do you want to fall in love with a gay man?

 

[myelin]

To be honest I am having a hard time understanding what you say, you do not speak English as I am used to hearing it. Is there perhaps a language barrier here?

But, if I do understand you correctly, you are somehow assuming that the OP’s gay friend is fully a part of the worst of the secular “gay” scene and because of that assumption saying she should have nothing to do with him, is that correct? If so, why in the world do you assume this?

Thanks…and I’m not here to upset people. I’m understanding this whole thing in the frame of a family talk.

Yes…if one of my sisters was asking about getting close and all that with a gay guy, all the guys and my father …that makes 6 guys…would sit her down and talk to her.

Now this assumes that my sister is interested in meeting a nice guy for dating and getting to know men, qualities that bring out good things in her, and a friendship- courtship that brings out good things and new discoveries in both of them.

To be blind to the sexual attitude in todays world with respects to sex outside of marriage and “used” as a thing to do when an attraction is noticed is plumb out of touch with reality.

Also…to assume a young person does not require ANY guidance in these area’s which include the known society is blind as well.

If there are …zero…boundaries communicated to people in your life, “expressing interest in the progress” of that person…there is no caring anywhere going on. So if a sister came home and asked what we all thought, we would inform her and ask her just what exactly she wants for her life, and then allow her to make up her own mind…now heres the thing…

in doing this a communication of care is in exchange. how is that known? Its known because the family has sacrificed any need in themselves to simply just go with the flow and congratulate her , regardless, of any hope for her to meet a straight guy…if family is not interested or the girl is not interested in meeting a straight guy then there is no care for future toward understanding and getting to know straight guys…plus meeting one that would be a positive match is there?

plus…I didn’t bring it up and its part of the OP.

its become also part of all the talking with quotes suggesting about culture and guys kissing in public. So the suggestion pointing at myself is not fair I don’t think.

If its argued
Ohhh no you have it all wrong…were just really good friends and like each other, very fond of the good friendship etc ect…

Ok…good luck meeting a guy under those circumstances…If a straight guy is met…you cannot juggle both hand in hand…with any remotely “normal” straight guy.

People make up there own minds about things and its a good thing. Have a great day!

 

[thewanderer]

Thanks…and I’m not here to upset people. I’m understanding this whole thing in the frame of a family talk.

Yes…if one of my sisters was asking about getting close and all that with a gay guy, all the guys and my father …that makes 6 guys…would sit her down and talk to her.

Now this assumes that my sister is interested in meeting a nice guy for dating and getting to know men, qualities that bring out good things in her, and a friendship- courtship that brings out good things and new discoveries in both of them.

To be blind to the sexual attitude in todays world with respects to sex outside of marriage and “used” as a thing to do when an attraction is noticed is plumb out of touch with reality.

Also…to assume a young person does not require ANY guidance in these area’s which include the known society is blind as well.

Heres the thinking:

If there are …zero…boundaries communicated to people in your life, “expressing interest in the progress” of that person…there is no caring anywhere going on. So if a sister came home and asked what we all thought, we would inform her and ask her just what exactly she wants for her life, and then allow her to make up her own mind…now heres the thing…

in doing this a communication of care is in exchange. how is that known? Its known because the family has sacrificed any need in themselves to simply just go with the flow and congratulate her , regardless, of any hope for her to meet a straight guy…if family is not interested or the girl is not interested in meeting a straight guy then there is no care for future toward understanding and getting to know straight guys…plus meeting one that would be a positive match is there?

plus…I didn’t bring it up and its part of the OP.

its become also part of all the talking with quotes suggesting about culture and guys kissing in public. So the suggestion pointing at myself is not fair I don’t think.

The OP made it very clear that she is asking about a non-romantic situation. She is not interested in dating this man with same-sex attraction. She is not asking whether or not it is ok to date someone with same-sex attraction (which, by the way, though often very inadvisable is not immoral) She is asking whether physical signs of affection can be appropriate in non-romantic relationships. As far as I can tell the only reason the OP brought up the fact that her friend has same-sex attractions is to make it more clear that this scenario is not about a romantic relationship but is entirely about a non-romantic relationship. There is nothing wrong with non-romantic physical signs of affection between friends unless it becomes either a near-occasion of sin or a scandal to others (scandal not meaning that someone was shocked by the action, but rather that it unnecessarily leads other people to engage in immoral behavior). This thread is not about romantic signs of affection between people of the same sex. It is about non-romantic signs of affection. The suggestion that you are off-base here in insisting that others on this thread are part of some sort of gay lobby agenda just because they are answering the actual question of the thread rather than going off on some tangent about homosexual relationships is entirely fair. You are talking about romantic relationships which is very clearly not at all what the OP is asking about. Can we please get this thread back on topic?

 

[myelin]

The OP made it very clear that she is asking about a non-romantic situation. She is not interested in dating this man with same-sex attraction. She is not asking whether or not it is ok to date someone with same-sex attraction (which, by the way, though often very inadvisable is not immoral) She is asking whether physical signs of affection can be appropriate in non-romantic relationships. As far as I can tell the only reason the OP brought up the fact that her friend has same-sex attractions is to make it more clear that this scenario is not about a romantic relationship but is entirely about a non-romantic relationship. There is nothing wrong with non-romantic physical signs of affection between friends unless it becomes either a near-occasion of sin or a scandal to others (scandal not meaning that someone was shocked by the action, but rather that it unnecessarily leads other people to engage in immoral behavior). This thread is not about romantic signs of affection between people of the same sex. It is about non-romantic signs of affection. The suggestion that you are off-base here in insisting that others on this thread are part of some sort of gay lobby agenda just because they are answering the actual question of the thread rather than going off on some tangent about homosexual relationships is entirely fair. You are talking about romantic relationships which is very clearly not at all what the OP is asking about. Can we please get this thread back on topic?

Ok…if you can pay attention and read all the entries its a deal. May I refer you to the important lead by I think a Priest in this…where its explained that while she may not have all these courting understandings in the very fond friendship which is very good…the man may not interpret the acceptance in the same way. We all… are only human and very often translate experience’s in ways which we have no control over .

IOW from what I understand we need to be aware of the effect we have on others.

 

[WatchmansMoon]

There’s a Word from the Lord Himself on this topic, for those interested. The Apostle Paul said (and I’m paraphrasing) that what is merely permissible is not the goal for Christian behavior. The goal is what is beneficial or constructive (literally, promotes growth in Christian wisdom, grace, affection, virtue, holiness, blessedness). There’s certain appropriate and inappropriate affection… and what benefits should be the target.

In 1 Corinthians 6, it says starting at vs 12 “Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything. “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”–but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. **Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself?" **

It is always a good guideline to take caution in what we do with the Temple of Christ, our body.

 

[thewanderer]

Ok…if you can pay attention and read all the entries its a deal. May I refer you to the important lead by I think a Priest in this…where its explained that while she may not have all these courting understandings in the very fond friendship which is very good…the man may not interpret the acceptance in the same way. We all… are only human and very often translate experience’s in ways which we have no control over .

IOW from what I understand we need to be aware of the effect we have on others.

Of course we have to be aware of how our actions effect others, and according to the OP this person is not attracted to her gender. Is it possible that he is lying? Is it possible that she is mistaken? I guess it is technically possible, but it should not be the assumption. Her question was asking if in a non-romantic relationship such physical signs of affection are allowed. And, as has previously been stated, so long as they are neither a near occasion of sin or lead others into sin without sufficient reason then they are perfectly fine. It is up to her to determine whether or not her situation is one where these criteria apply.

 

[myelin]

There’s a Word from the Lord Himself on this topic, for those interested. The Apostle Paul said (and I’m paraphrasing) that what is merely permissible is not the goal for Christian behavior. The goal is what is beneficial or constructive (literally, promotes growth in Christian wisdom, grace, affection, virtue, holiness, blessedness). There’s certain appropriate and inappropriate affection… and what benefits should be the target.

In 1 Corinthians 6, it says starting at vs 12 “Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything. “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”–but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. **Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself?" **

It is always a good guideline to take caution in what we do with the Temple of Christ, our body.

good words.

 

[myelin]

Of course we have to be aware of how our actions effect others, and according to the OP this person is not attracted to her gender. Is it possible that he is lying? Is it possible that she is mistaken? I guess it is technically possible, but it should not be the assumption. Her question was asking if in a non-romantic relationship such physical signs of affection are allowed. And, as has previously been stated, so long as they are neither a near occasion of sin or lead others into sin without sufficient reason then they are perfectly fine. It is up to her to determine whether or not her situation is one where these criteria apply.

Who said decisions were not up to the individual or even implied the suggestion ? I will need a direct quote and explanation for this so found charge. Fair is fair.

( other then that which to be honest I don’t care about, insofar as attacks…I think everything has been said in this…( gotta fly for now.

 

[Lasting_faith]

OK, this is what I have been able to comprehend from this a bit messy thread. It is not about “romantic” affection. It is not can it be possible to date a gay-person. BTW I don’t think a “straight” person would do so, namely because dating is all about learning what the other part is and will this maybe lead to marriage. (Which is not a very high chance if the other part is gay.) It is simply about what is proper to do and what is improper. And if I have been able to get it right I still say that a faith strong enough is all it takes in order to prevent things from getting out of hands. And to make one point more, nobody except God can “cure” a gay-person, so dating one thinking “well, I will make him/her straight and then I marry him/her”, To “go out” with a gay-person to watch a movie or something is in my way of thinking the safest date anyone can have.